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The OFFICIAL 2nd Wave Covid19 thread...This winter is going to suck.


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Keeping up with numbers, morbidity/mortality rates can be trying especially when things are changing as quickly as they seem to be.  I did read this article today that countered some of the speculation that morbidity doesn't seem to be matching the increased positive testing numbers.  The article also addressed concerns with increasing numbers of positive tests (indicating community spread faster than testing can track).  Mortality lags so isn't a great indicator.

What's more is that this isn't just an illness where we measure those who die compared to those who don't.  There are increasing numbers of "Post COVID Syndrome" patients with lingering symptoms.  Because it's still so new who knows how long that will last.  Anecdotally, I've seen patients with this as well as talked to colleagues/coworkers who are dealing with lingering post-COVID issues.

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Public Health should not be political. Public Health officials should determine what needs to be done and administrations should follow the advice. Presidents shouldn't threaten to cut off fundin

There will be two sudden and dramatic drops in the hysterical media reporting of how Covid is going to kill us all.  The first drop will come November 3rd of this year, and then the disease will (edit

It’s very difficult to take another medical professional seriously when they claim a virus that has killed 200k people in our mutual home will stop immediately based solely on a political transition.

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23 hours ago, TheFatMan said:

A couple points.

At the beginning of this whole thing, epidemiologists said that if the measures being taken were successful then people would say it was a huge overreaction. Of course it seems like it wasn't a big deal compared to initial projections. Thankfully many leaders took it seriously. 

Secondly, yes, our commander in chief deserves all the credit for saving millions and millions (and millions) of lives. He was tireless in telling us it was no big deal, mocking those wearing masks, pushing unproven medications, siding with protesters wanting states to open prematurely, threatening to withhold emergency funds to states for political reasons, retweeting conspiracy theories, golfing, holding massive rallies not requiring masks unless you are near him, ruining our relationship with the WHO, and undermining the world's foremost experts on infectious diseases. 

POTUS was right up there with  Schumer, Pelosi, DeBlasio telling the country all was well and per Fauchi chill out and go on a cruise while not wearing a mask as stated by Dr. Adams. While the UW prognosticator told us that millions of Americans were going to die!! Just like the onset of HIV the politicians jumped and turned a public health issue into political one upmanship!!

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1 minute ago, Cideous said:

*cough* *cough* *hack* *hack*.......sorry, it must of been something in the air....

I'm not a Cuomo supporter either.  But when right wingers blame him for all the NH deaths I defend his decision to send the minimally symptomatic infected old folks back to their home because he thought they would need the hospital beds.

The problem with American politics today is there is too much hatred and  not enough understanding of why.  The media thrives on keeping us hating each other.

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On 9/27/2020 at 1:00 PM, Boatswain2PA said:

Well, that's a lot better than the 2.2 million deaths that initial forecasts made. Blaming Trunp for the 200k deaths makes about as much sense as giving him the credit for saving 2 million (or 1.85 million if your projection holds true).

Every death is as tragic as it is inevitable, whether it is covid, CHF, accidents, cancer, or any other cause listed on the death certificate.

And it's interesting to think that, according to some, every single one of those 200,000 deaths was somehow preventable. At least that's how it's coming across -- that if we would've all stayed at home then none would have died. But a novel virus would have killed some people regardless of action, right? Would we all be up in arms about the way things were managed had only 100,000 people died? What's an acceptable death rate for novel viruses? Is there one?

But we'll never know how many would've died had we have done X and how many had we done Y. We just rely on "data" and statistics to help us understand.

Furthermore, we'll never know what kind of economic damage was prevented by not completely shutting everything down. But preserving the economy by not shutting down has arguably contributed to those 200,000 deaths. Obviously no deaths is preferred as we're in the business of saving people. And yes, it's a business. What kind of damage would have been done to the US economy had we had shut down completely? All seemingly rhetorical questions as they are almost impossible to answer or reason through with how complex an issue it is. 

I was sold on the idea that another Great Recession was coming because of all this and the recommendations to shut down the entire US economy, but that has yet to come to fruition, thankfully.

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1 hour ago, Boatswain2PA said:

The problem with American politics today is there is too much hatred and  not enough understanding of why.  The media thrives on keeping us hating each other.

The problem is it's not longer about America, it's about whatever "team" you're on. RBG got confirmed with something like 96-3, now we either don't even give them a chand at confirmation or it's split strictly on party lines.

I blame sports.

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At times like this, I rely on the best social commentary around: Science Fiction. I find it hard to explain why I keep coming back to Babylon 5 to ponder questions of medical ethics without spoiling things for those of you who've not yet seen it.

Babylon 5 is 110 episodes, with pilot, TV movies, and such less than 100 hours total time investment to watch all the way through.  It's worth it for every medical practitioner to see it, if for no other reason than the station's chief medical officer is human in every dimension of the word. Specifically, one episode in each of the first two seasons deals primarily with medical ethics: "Believers" deals with refusal of care, and "Confessions and Lamentations" deals with a taboo plague.  Because of the nature of the story, I do not recommend watching anything out of order, so that would be about 25-30 hours to watch through to those two episodes, and there's plenty of medical and other ethical quandaries sprinkled throughout all of the show

I'm going to go watch Confessions and Lamentations again right now, actually.

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16 hours ago, CAdamsPAC said:

POTUS was right up there with  Schumer, Pelosi, DeBlasio telling the country all was well and per Fauchi chill out and go on a cruise while not wearing a mask as stated by Dr. Adams.

And remember the Dems were busy in January with the stupid impeachment process.  When that failed they teamed with their friends in the media to weaponize the pandemic against Trump who was cruising toward a 2nd term.  Record low unemployment AND an increasing workforce participation rate, along with rapidly increasing wages, all of which was helping people of color even more than caucasions (meaning the rates/wages of people of color were increasing even more than caucasion rates/wages), and an overall BOOMING economy meant Trump would easily win a 2nd term.  The pandemic gave the Dems a tool with which to crush the economy so they could limit Trump to 1 term.  

 

10 hours ago, SedRate said:

And it's interesting to think that, according to some, every single one of those 200,000 deaths was somehow preventable. At least that's how it's coming across -- that if we would've all stayed at home then none would have died.

No death is preventable, some are just delayable.  It's an unpleasant truth, but it's the truth.

 

9 hours ago, MediMike said:

The problem is it's not longer about America, it's about whatever "team" you're on. RBG got confirmed with something like 96-3, now we either don't even give them a chand at confirmation or it's split strictly on party lines.

Or one party throws every disgusting smear the can come up with with last minute attacks.

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29 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

And remember the Dems were busy in January with the stupid impeachment process.  When that failed they teamed with their friends in the media to weaponize the pandemic against Trump who was cruising toward a 2nd term.  Record low unemployment AND an increasing workforce participation rate, along with rapidly increasing wages, all of which was helping people of color even more than caucasions (meaning the rates/wages of people of color were increasing even more than caucasion rates/wages), and an overall BOOMING economy meant Trump would easily win a 2nd term.  The pandemic gave the Dems a tool with which to crush the economy so they could limit Trump to 1 term.

You're nuts, and you're moaning about "shotgun" approaches not a half page back.

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Oh look, McClane is out of the penalty box, and the first thing he does is throw personal insults.  

Some people understandably call for leadership during this pandemic.  Trump has been a poor national leader during it, but there has been no leadership from the Democrat side as well.  The comment you quoted is regarding that.  Initially the Dems were too busy with the stupid impeachment, and then they moved toward sensationalizing the pandemic as a way to devastate the booming economy.

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5 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

And remember the Dems were busy in January with the stupid impeachment process.  When that failed they teamed with their friends in the media to weaponize the pandemic against Trump who was cruising toward a 2nd term.  Record low unemployment AND an increasing workforce participation rate, along with rapidly increasing wages, all of which was helping people of color even more than caucasions (meaning the rates/wages of people of color were increasing even more than caucasion rates/wages), and an overall BOOMING economy meant Trump would easily win a 2nd term.  The pandemic gave the Dems a tool with which to crush the economy so they could limit Trump to 1 term.  

 

No death is preventable, some are just delayable.  It's an unpleasant truth, but it's the truth.

 

Or one party throws every disgusting smear the can come up with with last minute attacks.

If you want to have a political thread with all the back and forth why don't you start one in the recovery room so we don't get another thread closed down?

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As the moderators have already said, this thread is about the Covid pandemic.  Part of the consequences of this Covid pandemic is it's use to derail our economy to prevent Trump's re-election.

RC2 understandably called out Trump's poor leadership during the pandemic.  The same could be said for Democrats.  

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Can we then all agree that there is NO leadership?  It is all about what they individually can get out of the process.  The fact that each party throws out either Biden or Trump, not taking into account the Congress which may be the bigger problem here, amongst all the people in this country that are eligible to run for office, tells me that the end days are nigh.  This country, and the world for that matter, wouldn't know a true leader if it slapped them in the face.  This in turn opens the door for...I won't go there and create another firestorm though people need to hear it IMO.

Edited by GetMeOuttaThisMess
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