pacman54 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Hello,<br>I'm starting my junior year at a smaller university, the problem is I'm not interested in any of the PA programs in my state, which means I will have an even harder time being accepted as an out-of-state applicant. My overall GPA is a 3.8, with a 3.5 science gpa. I double major in Biology and Psychology. For my health care experience hours I scribe for PAs in the emergency room along with volunteering at a local nursing home. I currently only have 500 hours, but by the time I apply I calculated I should have around 1,600. In addition to the scribing and volunteering, I have applied for a medical research internship at our state's medical college. I hope that this will show that I'm involved in the full spectrum of medicine, and not just one phase. I've signed up to take my GRE in the fall, so I am unable to provide a score. I realize you guys will not be able to give me an accurate answer until I provide the GRE, but all im asking for is personal opinions. The schools I am looking into include: USC-keck school of medicine, Seton Hall, Towson, Rosalind Franklin, Mt. Union, Southern Illinois, Marietta, and Albany. If you have any other suggestions for schools I would be glad to hear them. I guess what I'm asking is if you think I have a chance at any of those programs. Thank you so much for your time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmood Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I will have an even harder time being accepted as an out-of-state applicant. False. Most PA schools don't give preference to in-state applicants. They may have more in-state students because more locals apply to the schools within their area - purely an odds thing, though. You should get interview offers someplace with those numbers, even if you end up with a low-ish GRE score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 thank you for your input! I guess I was mislead with the in-states numbers. It makes sense that acceptance should not depend on where you're from, as long as you meet their criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 1, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 1, 2012 Thoughts: * Bio + Psych is a good combo. There is a LOT of behavioral medicine in primary care. * Research won't help for PA school nearly as much as it will help for med school. * In order to be competitive on the HCE front, you really need a credentialed and/or paid position with direct patient care. EMT and CNA are among the most flexible such programs. * While I normally caution people about having a science GPA lower than their cumulative, in your case it is unlikely to make a big difference. * Consider your endgame if you're only 21 or so. There's a lot to be said for med school if you have no family and manageable debt, and the differences in logistics have been shrinking: PA school is getting more competitive, residency hours are getting more reasonable than just 5 years ago. If you're getting a 3.8 as a traditional-age college student, you should seriously question whether PAdom will give you enough career trajectory to last for 40+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackjacks Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Other schools you could consider if you're interested in IL are Northwestern, Rush, and Midwestern. Rush is a longer program (33 months) with more clinicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I completely understand your point about the direct contact hours. I considered CNA as well, but felt that working alongside an ERMED PA would provide me with the view of the profession that I would not be able to have if I were to work as a CNA. All of the PAs that I work with explain to me what they are doing, and provide me with the logic behind their reasoning. I really enjoy seeing the profession in action. I guess the question I'm asking, are you advocating med school over PA school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorRRT Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 HCE isn't so much about getting to know about what a PA does; it is to figure out if you like interacting with, and being responsible for patients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I am a scribe too and know several other scribes who got multiple acceptances; so, unless you are applying to the very few that say "scribing doesn't count," you are good. I do however agree that actually caring for a patient is a completely different side of medicine. After scribing for a year I was bored from seeing the same stuff over and over again. After I became an EMT in ER, I realized how much I was missing as a scribe. These were small things like patient communication. Being able to explain what you are about to do to them, why you will do it, and what it will lead to sounds easy but it's not. It takes some practice. You have plenty of time. You already work in ER and know people. I recommend getting EMT certification and work there. Trust me, you will only thank yourself later. I can't imagine going to PA school having only had scribing as experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 2, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 2, 2012 I guess the question I'm asking, are you advocating med school over PA school? For smart, young (traditional-age), ambitious college students, the more traditional route to practice medicine--medical school--has no built-in ceilings. PAdom does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I agree, PAdom has it's limitations. I've actually looked into university of Louisville's early decision process for their medical school but it just didn't feel right to me. I prefer the PA profession over becoming an MD. I realize this comes with a price of a "ceiling" in the profession but hey its what I want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkels Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Just out of curiosity, what did not feel right to you about med school? I ask because it seems counterintuitive to me for a profession so closely related to being a PA can seem so wrong, and PA sound so right. I'm not challenging you, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ha it seems like an interview question to me! but that's fine it's a great question. Well after looking at the MD profession, I didn't like that you are (I know this isn't the right word but) "stuck" in a specialty that is difficult to change. Don't get me wrong, I know some people know what area they would like to work in right from the start and love it, but I guess I'm the kind of person that likes to see all the options I have before I make a decision, and with the clinical trials in various specialties that PA programs offer, I'm able to see all my options and readily switch between specialties. The advice that received from the PAs I worked with was that they also chose PA over MD because of the flexibility of specialty that medical school really doesn't provide. I know that PAs get the lesser work, such as laceration repairs and lumbar punctures (all of which an MD can also do, but they usually have more critical or serious patients to attend to) but honestly, I'm more interested with the lower grade work. Not everything I do has to be life or death is the best way I can put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkels Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not to be overly critical, but you seem to have been misguided by people as to a couple of things. First, in med school you go through clinical rotations and see many things, long before you have to decide what area you want to practice in. Yes, PAs can switch specialties after they have practiced in a particular fielx, but as an MD you will have had plenty of exposure to many fields by the time you have to pick your residency. I guess my next question would be this: if PAs could not switch their area of practice, would you then go to med school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm sorry, I guess I don't understand the question of why a MD would be able to switch whereas a PA would not. PA school is not a backup to me for med school, nor will I let it become one. I have a sincere interest in the PA profession. A med school offer would not change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkels Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think there was some miscommunication going on. I'll explain further... You said: "I know some people know what area they would like to work in right from the start and love it, but I guess I'm the kind of person that likes to see all the options I have before I make a decision, and with the clinical trials in various specialties that PA programs offer, I'm able to see all my options and readily switch between specialties." My response to that: That one year of PA school you reference as "clinical trials in various specialties" is TWO years of med school. MD students get the same thing but twice as long. It is difficult to switch once they have finished their chosen residency, but they get to see all the options before they make a decision... except they have 2 years of it instead of 1. You said: I'm more interested with the lower grade work. Not everything I do has to be life or death. My response to that: You can choose an area to practice as an MD where you are doing this lower grade work that isn't life or death... and get paid twice as much to do it. I'm not trying to bash the PA profession by any means... I am pursuing it myself. I am just encouraging you to make sure you know EXACTLY what you are getting into and exactly what you are deciding before you actually decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Savage Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not to be overly critical, but you seem to have been misguided by people as to a couple of things. First, in med school you go through clinical rotations and see many things, long before you have to decide what area you want to practice in. Yes, PAs can switch specialties after they have practiced in a particular fielx, but as an MD you will have had plenty of exposure to many fields by the time you have to pick your residency. I guess my next question would be this: if PAs could not switch their area of practice, would you then go to med school? Im not being critical of your statement either but some physicians do not get to just "pick" their residency. There is a match process and it all depends on board scores and is highly competitive. http://www.startmedicine.com/app/residencyconsiderations.asp So if your heart is set on some kind of surgery or another highly competitive specialty and you have lower board scores and honors/recognition than your competition, then you only have so many options. My surgical SP could give a gnats toot in a hurricane about my board scores, as long as I pass. There is one definate advantage to choosing PA over MD/DO. Also you can swap specialties with relative ease in comparison to other profession. A friend of mine, an IM doc, was getting burned out being a hospitalist and applied for a GI and Cardiology fellowship... well he is a great doc and has great scores, but he is 42 and there is simply too much competition. He was shot down for both. When Im 50 I may get tired of sowing up someone's body cavity at two am because he thought it was cool to make a slip and slide on his roof and missed the pool, and now he is missing his spleen! When that happens I will probly take a lower acuity job with cush hours for my old cranky bones. I am not sure... I may love sowing up "roof slide" jockeys at two am and never want to give it up. I have options! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Thank you redonems80 for clearing that up. The options available for PAs are flexible and I feel that is an advantage the MD profession cannot match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2012 a few thoughts to consider: md specialties such as family medicine allow for a lot of flexibility; one can own a practice, work as a hospitalist, do low risk ob including c-sections, work at a rural er, do a variety of procedures such as colonoscopy, vasectomies, treadmills, acupuncture, etc with the proper training. the time of pa flexibility and lateral mobility may be drawing to a close. with the advent of the new CAQ specialty exams for pa's and increased credentialing requirements at hospitals and through the joint commission it is getting harder every yr as a pa to switch between specialties or to even maintain a broad scope of practice in a single specialty. If I had to do it over I would go to medschool and do an md/mph program(actually DO/MPH) then do a family medicine residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Not to be rude, but if I am able, I would like to redirect the discussion to the main point of the thread. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 many places to not consider research or scribing to be direct patient care experience so might want to work more in that direction. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Thank you for your input. Scribing is a risk for experience, but I don't understand how elite programs like Duke can accept it while others do not. I was working with a PA recently who was on the admissions board for a larger university, and he informed me that there is a greater movement to accept the scribing hours. He was against counting them at first, but after observing scribes in the ED for several years, he has warmed up to counting them. I know several scribes who have already been accepted to PA programs based solely off their scribing hours. I guess it is just hit or miss for schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmood Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Well, one of my classmates was a scribe and I think it was her primary healthcare experience. So for what it's worth Rosalind Franklin has taken at least one scribe in the past few cycles. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 I have some new info to add to this thread that will help you guys get a better idea. I scored a 1210 on the gre (prior to beginning my kaplan course), and I recently started an internship at my local medical college working in the oncology lab. I was just wondering how I shape up to a USC or Cornell PA program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman54 Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 USC prefers paid health care experience, whereas Cornell states the hours are preferred. Im currently an ER scribe which both schools consider direct patient contact hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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