Administrator rev ronin Posted August 20, 2020 Administrator Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, TexasPA28 said: Now there are people doing fashion design at trade colleges that are calling themselves "fashion engineers." Business graduates are now calling themselves "financial engineers." Computer science majors are now "software engineers" instead of computer programmers. "If civil engineers built infrastructure the way that programmers write software, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiovolffemtp Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Rev, Do you know the origin of the term "debugging"? Or, who popularized the term. Hint - I actually heard this person speak - twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 An NP with a doctorate is not a doctor or a physician and should NOT be called doctor. You can get a PhD in Egyptian Hieroglyphics and you still aren't a doctor in a medical building. Calling a Physical Therapist or an NP a doctor is misleading and fraudulent. Patients only hear "doctor" in the sense of a medical doctor - whether DO or MD. The term LIP has my goat right now. I am not an LIP in the VA system and NPs can get jobs I cannot due to that idiocy. So, less focus on name and more focus on actual privileges and abilities by license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 An NP with a doctorate is not a doctor or a physician and should NOT be called doctor. You can get a PhD in Egyptian Hieroglyphics and you still aren't a doctor in a medical building. Calling a Physical Therapist or an NP a doctor is misleading and fraudulent. Patients only hear "doctor" in the sense of a medical doctor - whether DO or MD. The term LIP has my goat right now. I am not an LIP in the VA system and NPs can get jobs I cannot due to that idiocy. So, less focus on name and more focus on actual privileges and abilities by license. I hear you but what about Psy. D and Podiatrists? In my old hospital they were called doctor. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I can't fix the old - chiropractors, podiatrists - yep, they get called doctor. I don't agree but can't fix it after all these years. But the NP doctorate is a new thing and should be kiboshed quickly as it directly confuses that person with a colleague who is an MD/DO. PAs with PhDs should NOT be called doctor either. In England, you get called M'am and Sir - not doctor - a tad less pretentious. Again, worry about what we CAN DO, not what we get called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke64 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 57 minutes ago, Reality Check 2 said: An NP with a doctorate is not a doctor or a physician and should NOT be called doctor. You can get a PhD in Egyptian Hieroglyphics and you still aren't a doctor in a medical building. Calling a Physical Therapist or an NP a doctor is misleading and fraudulent. Patients only hear "doctor" in the sense of a medical doctor - whether DO or MD. I disagree. The term "doctor" derives from the Latin word "teach" and thus a PhD can have a better claim on the term than an MD/DO. Shouldn't matter what building you are in. Its the medical communities fault for using the term incorrectly. In any case, I am disturbed how Physicians refer to themselves as Dr. Smith, but to RN, NP, or PA, by their first name. I have looked on a number of medical groups websites that list their staff. Physicians are always referred to by their last name. APPs are referred to by their first. This is down right rude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPA28 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 If doctors started wearing purple wizard hats in the hospitals, within a week the NPs would argue that they should be allowed to do the same thing -- not because it enhances patient care but because they want the "street cred" of doctors without the work put in. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted August 21, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2020 Personally, I say let them. I think it’s pretty wrong that we only allow one profession to use the educational term doctor. Now if we want to ban EVERYONE from saying doctor, including physicians, all for that. As for me, I’ve actually changed what I’m going to do. Until it’s banned for everyone, I’m using the title doctor and plastering it on my badge and every article of clothing (once I get it, and yes my director has cleared me to use it). Sorry, I’ll still explain I’m a PA, but I cannot abide rules being applied unevenly to the point it makes me angry. If it was really about patient confusion and not trying to keep the appearance of higher status, then none should have a problem having everyone called by their professional title and not their degree. I don’t see how it’s just to say everyone else has to accommodate one profession. Is it really that much harder to just make everyone not use their educational title? How is it more feasible to pick and choose dentists, podiatrists, chiros, naturopaths, psychologists, MD/DO can, and then pick and choose the rest of us who can’t. All of us or none of us IMO (with the obvious caveat you explain your professional role as well) 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 21, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2020 11 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said: Personally, I say let them. I think it’s pretty wrong that we only allow one profession to use the educational term doctor. Now if we want to ban EVERYONE from saying doctor, including physicians, all for that. As for me, I’ve actually changed what I’m going to do. Until it’s banned for everyone, I’m using the title doctor and plastering it on my badge and every article of clothing (once I get it, and yes my director has cleared me to use it). Sorry, I’ll still explain I’m a PA, but I cannot abide rules being applied unevenly to the point it makes me angry. If it was really about patient confusion and not trying to keep the appearance of higher status, then none should have a problem having everyone called by their professional title and not their degree. I don’t see how it’s just to say everyone else has to accommodate one profession. Is it really that much harder to just make everyone not use their educational title? How is it more feasible to pick and choose dentists, podiatrists, chiros, naturopaths, psychologists, MD/DO can, and then pick and choose the rest of us who can’t. All of us or none of us IMO (with the obvious caveat you explain your professional role as well) you are my hero.... I will also do the same (havve to find a DMSc program and enroll and complete it but that is coming) still hoping Nebraska comes up with a DMSc.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPA28 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 20 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said: Personally, I say let them. I think it’s pretty wrong that we only allow one profession to use the educational term doctor. Now if we want to ban EVERYONE from saying doctor, including physicians, all for that. As for me, I’ve actually changed what I’m going to do. Until it’s banned for everyone, I’m using the title doctor and plastering it on my badge and every article of clothing (once I get it, and yes my director has cleared me to use it). Sorry, I’ll still explain I’m a PA, but I cannot abide rules being applied unevenly to the point it makes me angry. If it was really about patient confusion and not trying to keep the appearance of higher status, then none should have a problem having everyone called by their professional title and not their degree. I don’t see how it’s just to say everyone else has to accommodate one profession. Is it really that much harder to just make everyone not use their educational title? How is it more feasible to pick and choose dentists, podiatrists, chiros, naturopaths, psychologists, MD/DO can, and then pick and choose the rest of us who can’t. All of us or none of us IMO (with the obvious caveat you explain your professional role as well) If you introduce yourself as "Hello, I'm Dr. Jones, the PA" then I have no problem with it. But if you just walk in and say "Hello, I'm Dr Jones" without clarifying your status then I dont think that's right. Patients will assume, rightly or wrongly, that you are a physician. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 22, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted August 22, 2020 On 8/20/2020 at 2:02 PM, Reality Check 2 said: An NP with a doctorate is not a doctor or a physician and should NOT be called doctor. You can get a PhD in Egyptian Hieroglyphics and you still aren't a doctor in a medical building. Calling a Physical Therapist or an NP a doctor is misleading and fraudulent. Patients only hear "doctor" in the sense of a medical doctor - whether DO or MD. The term LIP has my goat right now. I am not an LIP in the VA system and NPs can get jobs I cannot due to that idiocy. So, less focus on name and more focus on actual privileges and abilities by license. I would suggest that this line of thought is what has gotten us into this mess..... I think we do need to be aware of the name and the perception - because it does matter...... I will some day earn a DMSc 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiovolffemtp Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Ohio law states that anyone who uses the terms "doctor" or "Dr." is engaging in the practice of medicine if they use that title in the context of examining or treating patients or advertising to to that. It requires that anyone engaged in the practice of medicine (with the exception of a dentist) must be an MD, DO, or DPM, licensed by the state medical board. So, a PA or NP, even if they hold a doctoral level degree, cant use the term doctor in a clinical context. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 23, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted August 23, 2020 9 hours ago, ohiovolffemtp said: Ohio law states that anyone who uses the terms "doctor" or "Dr." is engaging in the practice of medicine if they use that title in the context of examining or treating patients or advertising to to that. It requires that anyone engaged in the practice of medicine (with the exception of a dentist) must be an MD, DO, or DPM, licensed by the state medical board. So, a PA or NP, even if they hold a doctoral level degree, cant use the term doctor in a clinical context. So what about psychologist? DPT? DNP? And all the other doctors...... just because a law is on books does not mean it is enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiovolffemtp Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I've only worked in a hospital setting in Ohio. Each facility had tags that hung below the picture id's everyone wears that say MD, DO, PA, APRN, RN, etc. So a DNP would have the APRN tag. Haven't seen any psychologists, but the DPT's tags said PT. In the local teaching hospital it even when further to tag "Resident", "Fellow", and "Attending" physicians with those labels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 23, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted August 23, 2020 9 hours ago, ohiovolffemtp said: I've only worked in a hospital setting in Ohio. Each facility had tags that hung below the picture id's everyone wears that say MD, DO, PA, APRN, RN, etc. So a DNP would have the APRN tag. Haven't seen any psychologists, but the DPT's tags said PT. In the local teaching hospital it even when further to tag "Resident", "Fellow", and "Attending" physicians with those labels. All hospitals do this. what about what people call themselves, and in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 8/21/2020 at 4:46 PM, TexasPA28 said: If you introduce yourself as "Hello, I'm Dr. Jones, the PA" then I have no problem with it. But if you just walk in and say "Hello, I'm Dr Jones" without clarifying your status then I dont think that's right. Patients will assume, rightly or wrongly, that you are a physician. In Texas, remember that name badge statute that is required to state that unmentionable phrase on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyJ Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 On 8/22/2020 at 11:27 AM, ohiovolffemtp said: Ohio law states that anyone who uses the terms "doctor" or "Dr." is engaging in the practice of medicine if they use that title in the context of examining or treating patients or advertising to to that. It requires that anyone engaged in the practice of medicine (with the exception of a dentist) must be an MD, DO, or DPM, licensed by the state medical board. So, a PA or NP, even if they hold a doctoral level degree, cant use the term doctor in a clinical context. Was trying to find what you quoted to make sense out of it. I found the below and still doesn't make sense. So, anyone using the word doctor/Dr. is practicing medicine...well PAs practice medicine. So, is the below really stating we can't use the doctor title? I couldn't find where it says they must be an MD, DO, or DPM. So, then in Ohio though an NP for sure would not be able to use the doctor title because they don't practice medicine and thus would be practicing medicine without a license?. (A) A person shall be regarded as practicing medicine and surgery, osteopathic medicine and surgery, or podiatric medicine and surgery, within the meaning of this chapter, who does any of the following: (1) Uses the words or letters, "Dr.," "Doctor," "M.D.," "physician," "D.O.," "D.P.M.," or any other title in connection with the person's name in any way that represents the person as engaged in the practice of medicine and surgery, osteopathic medicine and surgery, or podiatric medicine and surgery, in any of its branches; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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