Name change via AAPA...

[PACali]

16 hours ago, Hope2PA said:

I agree with all other parts of your comment Lang, but Even a “ surgery” PA should drop the assistant. I’m not as familiar with surgery, but I do not think surgical techs or first assist RN’s are called “assistants”, they probably wounding allow that to be in title. Plus, don’t surgery PA’s see patients in office or in hospital more independent, they actually would be PA’s that the title Associate fits better with.. 

Physicians can also first assist and their title is  not Physician assistant. 

Surgical PAs also do certain procedures and see patients by themselves. They are not just an assistant.

2 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

I disagree.

I do EM, and I'm pretty dang good at it.  But few weeks ago I saw my boss drop a central line.  I am competent on putting in femoral lines, but he put in a subclavian line in about 1/10 the time it would take me.  Why?  Because he did a 4 year EM residency and he has put in many hundreds, if not thousands of them.  I've put in a couple dozen.  

 

No offense, but "assistants" shouldn't be doing advance/highly invasive procedures such as central lines---says patient's family,  hospital administrators, law makers.

Edited July 20, 2020 by PACali

[Boatswain2PA]

3 hours ago, PACali said:

No offense, but "assistants" shouldn't be doing advance/highly invasive procedures such as central lines---says patient's family,  hospital administrators, law makers.

None taken.  I'm credentialed to do them, and I know of no law that says I can't do them.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

14 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

 

 

What title does Dave want? 

I'm all for a name-change....as long as it's accurate and not more confusing to our patients (many of whom don't know the have four chambers in their heart).  Physician Associate?  Okay, that's probably more accurate than Assistant.  The others I've heard are either confusing or, in my opinion, seek to be dishonest by placing us on parity with much higher-trained physicians.

 

 

I don’t believe he hasn’t stated firm support for any particular one, or if he has, I do not recall it.

 

[Nuke64]

I think first a general title for the person who you would get the appointment with, MD, DO, PA, or NP.  I guess the term already used for insurance is "provider".  A better name could be used, but we need people to think "I'm not feeling well, I need to go see a Healthcare Provider" as opposed to " I need to go see a Doctor."

I like to compare the title issue to what is done in academia.  At my college, faculty members were either assistant professors, associate professors, or professors.  Anyone who taught a class was generally referred to as the instructor, who could have a title previously mentioned, or be a lecturer, teaching assistant, etc.  I don't see a huge issue with either assistant or associate or another alternative if the first issue is addressed.

 

 

 

[Joelseff]

I don’t believe he hasn’t stated firm support for any particular one, or if he has, I do not recall it.
 

In the huddle he just stated on a recent thread "let's see what they come up with in November" or something to that effect... (not a direct quote!)

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[KpsPac]

Truth be told, it doesn’t matter what Dave wants. What truly matters is what the company we hired comes back with in November. Then it can be discussed without speculation  

in my opinion, I think we’re crazy if we lose the term “physician”. As the company stated, we have a halo with the term, not to mention people understand what it means.

we are already behind the eight ball, so if we come up with anything other than “physician associate”, which keeps the initials and the overall idea of what we do, we must spend even MORE money describing and educating from the very beginning. including the all powerful legislators.  

then, we can work towards another name. 

at this point, we are losing ground to a whole other profession, so we need to look at the whole picture. 
 

[Cideous]

24 minutes ago, KpsPac said:

Truth be told, it doesn’t matter what Dave wants. What truly matters is what the company we hired comes back with in November. Then it can be discussed without speculation  

in my opinion, I think we’re crazy if we lose the term “physician”. As the company stated, we have a halo with the term, not to mention people understand what it means.

we are already behind the eight ball, so if we come up with anything other than “physician associate”, which keeps the initials and the overall idea of what we do, we must spend even MORE money describing and educating from the very beginning. including the all powerful legislators.  

then, we can work towards another name. 

at this point, we are losing ground to a whole other profession, so we need to look at the whole picture. 
 

I could NOT DISAGREE MORE.  WE ARE NOT PHYSICIANS AND WE ARE NOT ASSISTANTS AND WE ARE NOT ASSOCIATES. WE ARE PRACTITIONERS OF MEDICINE.  THE END.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

1 hour ago, KpsPac said:

Truth be told, it doesn’t matter what Dave wants. What truly matters is what the company we hired comes back with in November. Then it can be discussed without speculation  

in my opinion, I think we’re crazy if we lose the term “physician”. As the company stated, we have a halo with the term, not to mention people understand what it means.

we are already behind the eight ball, so if we come up with anything other than “physician associate”, which keeps the initials and the overall idea of what we do, we must spend even MORE money describing and educating from the very beginning. including the all powerful legislators.  

then, we can work towards another name. 

at this point, we are losing ground to a whole other profession, so we need to look at the whole picture. 
 

Absolutely agree. Let’s we what they come up with in November. No need to rehash this over and over when nothing is going to be done until then.
 

If they can make a persuasive argument for physician associate, I’ll keep an open mind. Though it will have to be very persuasive, because in my opinion, we have done too little for too long. Now our profession needs massive overhaul. if we want to have our own boards, manifest our own destiny with less outside interference, and have a practice that we can call our own, then we need complete separation. It will be painful, but we will continue to be behind trying to slowly change.

also, I don’t recall anything being said about physician term being a halo? Could you reference where this was said? Perhaps a link to the particular video or text?

 

[PACali]

On 7/20/2020 at 4:35 AM, Boatswain2PA said:

None taken.  I'm credentialed to do them, and I know of no law that says I can't do them.

 I have been questioned about my scope of practice to suture a laceration because I am an assistant. Pt’s family was wondering why the physician was not doing the job and they were not even rude. I don't blame them. They were just curious. Perception matters. I am sure many others on this forum have their own stories to tell.

On 7/19/2020 at 10:59 PM, Boatswain2PA said:

I disagree.

I do EM, and I'm pretty dang good at it.  But few weeks ago I saw my boss drop a central line.  I am competent on putting in femoral lines, but he put in a subclavian line in about 1/10 the time it would take me.  Why?  Because he did a 4 year EM residency and he has put in many hundreds, if not thousands of them.  I've put in a couple dozen.  
 

You are selling yourself short. Just because someone can do a procedure faster than you, doesn’t make you their assistant. I am sure you can do a central line faster than the hospitalist. I am sure you can intubate better than any hospitalist, IM docs, family docs. I am sure you can run a better code than an orthopedist, dermatologists...the list goes on.  There are many procedures I can do better than a physician, but that is not the point. The point is Assistant does not describe what we do. It is not enough, we do way more than assist. 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by PACali

[PACali]

4 hours ago, KpsPac said:

in my opinion, I think we’re crazy if we lose the term “physician”. As the company stated, we have a halo with the term, not to mention people understand what it means.

we are already behind the eight ball, so if we come up with anything other than “physician associate”, which keeps the initials and the overall idea of what we do, we must spend even MORE money describing and educating from the very beginning. including the all powerful legislators.  
 

The word physician is misleading. We are not physicians. That "halo" is misleading. We misinformed the pt. 

Medical Care Practitioner tells it all. Plain and simple. What more explanation do you need really?

This is AAPA’s definition of PA “ PAs are medical professionals who diagnose illness, develop and manage treatment plans, prescribe medications, and often serve as a patient’s principal healthcare provider. With thousands of hours of medical training, PAs are versatile and collaborative.” 

This definition just doesn’t correspond with Physician Associate (or someone will call it Physician’s associate). How can you be a patient's principle healthcare provider as an assistant or someone's associate?  Very confusing.  Replace the "PA" with Medical Care Practitioner above, it fits perfectly.  Physician Associate is basically a physician's assistant. Let's not kid ourselves. 

Call me crazy, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Nurse Practitioner eventually changed their name to Medical Care Practitioner down the road.

 

 

[KpsPac]

5 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

 

also, I don’t recall anything being said about physician term being a halo? Could you reference where this was said? Perhaps a link to the particular video or text?

 

The “halo effect” was referred to and stated during by WPP during the HOD in May 2019.

I am sure it can be found on the AAPA website if the entire presentation was uploaded. 

@PACali ....so we have been called PHYSICIAN Assistant for 50 plus years. Do we need to apologize for “misleading”’the public all this time? 

Being called a Medical Practioner is not very descriptive either. In fact, I had a nurse admin in my practice who referred to their MAs as such. According to a few legal folks, MP cannot be copyrighted, or claimed by a profession, as it is too general. 

I certainly do NOT want to continue to be mistaken for a nurse practitioner, which will happen with a name so close. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by KpsPac

[Hope2PA]

9 hours ago, KpsPac said:

Tr

in my opinion, I think we’re crazy if we lose the term “physician”. As the company stated, we have a halo with the term, not to mention people understand what it means.

 

The “halo” of the term physician and how it is respected is True if you ARE a physician. Being  an associate or assistant only indicates to lay people that you are not cape able to function on your own. I am only one person who had planned on going to PA school as second career, and have some close friends as PA’s, but life got in my way. Then I had personal medical encounters with some poor providers which made me want to advocate for PA’s. (If you note my history I was pre PA and switched to other). I researched the difference between educational requirements and have worked in medical related fields for many many years. I am only one, sort of lay person, saying that from my perspective, your profession will likely be better off in the future if you can have a title that does not indicate you are a helper of anyone. Again, I am just one person, but I am privy to meetings with CEO, CNO, office admin, physicians and others. You need stages independence and own title.. Who knows, maybe someday I will make the leap, but honestly I no longer feel it is worth while unless a lot changes, including perception of needing to maintain dependent even after years of practice. You can call me a troll, guess I am and should no longer be on here, but I have spent time and $ to help promote PA’s, talked with legislators and heard their comments along with others.  Good luck to you all! 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

5 hours ago, KpsPac said:

The “halo effect” was referred to and stated during by WPP during the HOD in May 2019.

I am sure it can be found on the AAPA website if the entire presentation was uploaded. 

@PACali ....so we have been called PHYSICIAN Assistant for 50 plus years. Do we need to apologize for “misleading”’the public all this time? 

Being called a Medical Practioner is not very descriptive either. In fact, I had a nurse admin in my practice who referred to their MAs as such. According to a few legal folks, MP cannot be copyrighted, or claimed by a profession, as it is too general. 

I certainly do NOT want to continue to be mistaken for a nurse practitioner, which will happen with a name so close. 

I have no doubt they said it, I believe you, I just had not heard it. I was not there at the HOD. I won’t disagree either that it provides some level of legitimacy, but it equally as restricting because we are not physicians. Thus we are defined by who with associate with or who we assist, and not by what we actually do or who we are. As long as we want to describe ourselves in our relation to others instead of what we actually are, then we have to accept that they are going to have control over the profession.
 

I agree that medical practitioner is not a viable option. I’ve said it from the beginning. It could not be be a restricted title since it is too generalizable. I think medical care practitioner has potential, as it is not a common phrase. Fortunately someone with more authority than me, Dr. Bergé PA-C, JD, started expressing the same opinion and people finally listened.
 

It’s too late now, but I really wish people had hopped on the Clinical Officer band wagon I suggested. Way better than the made up names, precedence in the international community, different from all others, sounds authoritative, but alas, no one listens to me. /endpityparty 

[SedRate]

5 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

It's too late now, but I really wish people had hopped on the Clinical Officer band wagon I suggested. Way better than the made up names, precedence in the international community, different from all others, sounds authoritative, but alas, no one listens to me. /endpityparty 

"I'm Clinical Officer Doe, and I'm here to lay down the LAW on your HbA1C." *Whip crack*

Where do I sign up? 

[Joelseff]

I think Clinical Officer would cause more confusion... And do we really want to be called "officer" in today's political climate? [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

8 minutes ago, Joelseff said:

I think Clinical Officer would cause more confusion... And do we really want to be called "officer" in today's political climate?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

Well, the fortunate thing is there is already a Wikipedia page about it and describes exactly what we do. Google it. It’s perfect as it is.

No matter what we go to, it’s going to cause confusion, unless we pick physician associate or don’t change the name. Medical care practitioner would also cause less confusion, but can we have it restricted? (FYI not directed at you, but it’s not “copyrighted” which deals with intellectual property) If it can’t be restricted, which it very well may not be, then we are left with all those made up words. It may be a very expensive proposition to find out that it can’t be as well, then your stuck with a lot of sunk costs.

 I get some people have trouble with the “officer” part because there entires lives have only had police officers, as opposed to the military that has a medical officer, surface warfare officer, naval flight officer, operations officer, etc. it a uniquely American thing to only call the police and CEO/CFOs officers. It would have worked great though, IMO. 

[Joelseff]

Well, the fortunate thing is there is already a Wikipedia page about it and describes exactly what we do. Google it. It’s perfect as it is.
No matter what we go to, it’s going to cause confusion, unless we pick physician associate or don’t change the name. Medical care practitioner would also cause less confusion, but can we have it restricted? (FYI not directed at you, but it’s not “copyrighted” which deals with intellectual property) If it can’t be restricted, which it very well may not be, then we are left with all those made up words. It may be a very expensive proposition to find out that it can’t be as well, then your stuck with a lot of sunk costs.
 I get some people have trouble with the “officer” part because there entires lives have only had police officers, as opposed to the military that has a medical officer, surface warfare officer, naval flight officer, operations officer, etc. it a uniquely American thing to only call the police and CEO/CFOs officers. It would have worked great though, IMO. 

No I understand. I'm ex Navy (enlisted though) and familiar with the Clinical Officer providers in Africa etc. I was just being a smart ass. [emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

7 minutes ago, Joelseff said:

No I understand. I'm ex Navy (enlisted though) and familiar with the Clinical Officer providers in Africa etc. I was just being a smart ass.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

I wouldn’t have it any other way

[camoman1234]

On 7/19/2020 at 7:07 AM, SamthePA said:

Im a physician assistant. The people who have issue with this have self esteem issues. There’s nothing wrong with our name. 
 

 

Name sucks dude. How are you so blind to this? Medical Practitioner!

[SedRate]

16 hours ago, Joelseff said:

I think Clinical Officer would cause more confusion... And do we really want to be called "officer" in today's political climate?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

On the contrary, maybe calling PAs Clinical Officers would help clean up the image of "officer"?

And since our initials would be CO, we could then be included on the C suite with the other C's and other Officers? Jus' sayin'. I'm liking it more and more.

Medical Care Practitioner is too placid, wordy, and Medical Assist-esque/Patient Care Tech-esque, and I don't think it packs enough punch for folks to take seriously. NP at least carries the weight of the superhero nurse image who fights crime alongside docs and now you can add doctorate and independent. But we don't get to ride on those coattails. MCP will still be a predominantly masters level degree and therefore less than in the eyes of anyone who isn't looking further into the matter beyond name and credentials to let us explain what that actually means.

I really do believe we need something completely unique and authoritative to break us away from all the negative associations our field has arbitrarily obtained.

[SamthePA]

On 7/19/2020 at 12:38 PM, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

Actually, I would say that someone who is okay with being called an assistant when they do not assist anyone is the person with self esteem issues. What I have is pride in my work. You see yourself as an assistant, I see myself as a practitioner of medicine in my own right.

Great and you are even if you disagree with the name. You have an issue with being labeled as an assistant. I’m very independent in hospital medicine and have no issues with the name. I’m respected for how hard I work whether it’s in conjunction directly with the doc or not.

[SamthePA]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:12 PM, camoman1234 said:

Name sucks dude. How are you so blind to this? Medical Practitioner!

“Oh so you’re a nurse practitioner?”

 

same shit different name. You get paid well to practice medicine. Physician assistant/associate/praxioner who cares.

[Joelseff]

Great and you are even if you disagree with the name. You have an issue with being labeled as an assistant. I’m very independent in hospital medicine and have no issues with the name. I’m respected for how hard I work whether it’s in conjunction directly with the doc or not.

 I think many of us here practice with a great deal of autonomy but I think the biggest issue with our title is not "what we are called" but "how it's perceived" by mostly legislators and policy makers in Healthcare. We've been left out where NPs are included in some cases. This can be because they are "under nursing" but there have been people on this board who work in the policy level and have had pushback from admins and legislators because "how can an assistant be included in xyz policy" etc... Many threads on here about that and actually being discussed in the huddle where AAPA leadership is actually supporting the name change for that very reason... Dave Mittman being a very vocal one. 

 

I get It I tell people to call me "Joe the PA" or simply "Joe" and I'm OK with that. But I'm not blind to the probability/likelihood that our title holds us back in the eyes of policy makers and in some cases our colleagues.

 

I think it's dismissive to insinuate that PA's who see a need for title change are simply ego bruised.

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[camoman1234]

On 7/23/2020 at 9:16 PM, SamthePA said:

“Oh so you’re a nurse practitioner?”

 

same shit different name. You get paid well to practice medicine. Physician assistant/associate/praxioner who cares.

Names mean a lot to the public and people that hold office that make our laws more flexible/changeable. It may not seem much to you but most people in the public think a NP is "higher" than a PA. Also, most people think we "work for" Dr. XYZ. This does not happen to NPs, they are decades ahead of us in the political world. Words matter.   

Edited July 27, 2020 by camoman1234

[thinkertdm]

“This is the song that never ends.
Yes, it goes on and on, my friends.
Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue singing it forever just because...

...this is the song that never ends.
Yes, it goes on and on, my friends.
Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue singing it forever just because...”