Declining Covid deaths

[camoman1234]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Scroll about half way down to the New Cases of Covid graph and New Daily Deaths Covid graph. Interesting that most people haven't seen this online or on TV per our last discussion on here about making. I was attacked by several people, PAs making false claims about masks, deaths, quoting the Lancet (was recently found guilty and retracted a article on hydroxychloroquine). Not looking at all sides as it is being reported that Covid deaths are attributed to any comorbidity. Look up the Illinois State Medical Director speaking about this or Good Morning America or other doctors on youtube being pressured to put covid on the death certificate. Lastly if the masking is helping so much then why are we getting a huge increase in cases?

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Well, you're not going to hear arguments from me on the HCQ. I was saying throwing that stuff at people was bad science from day one. 

But I also don't understand. You're saying we are having a drop in cases, but people are being encouraged to lie on forms, which should increase numbers? Also I should get my medical advice from people from youtube asking me to hit that like and subscribe button?

A lot of the decrease in deaths are from improvement in management. People weren't being ventilated properly, we weren't using proning, lots of people throwing the kitchen sink like HCQ, steroids, azithro, remdesivir, and whatever else they could get there hands on at it. It all happened in a few cities, massive onslaught, with few staff and poor working conditions. Now its spreading in multiple areas in the country leading to wide spread increase in cases, but if you look locally, we have actually significantly decrease spread. 

Data without good interpretation, perhaps more importantly, tempered interpretations (like you claim we aren't doing) leads to erroneous conclusions. I mean, you are doing exactly what you accuse us of doing. You took a piece of data, and ran with it. No worries. You're passionate. 

Also, I guess I'm just not sure why you care if we care. Are you implying we are sheeple needing to get woke? Because I would say that is the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[ANESMCR]

Not much left to add. I do have a couple question’s however. Say everyone accepts that deaths are decreasing (over reported rather than under reported), and that masks aren’t sufficient enough to, at the very least, stymie spread. Rather than political talking points, what’s your ultimate goal here? What benefit does this provide? And what’s your alternative solution? 

Edited July 6, 2020 by ANESMCR

[camoman1234]

8 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

Well, you're not going to hear arguments from me on the HCQ. I was saying throwing that stuff at people was bad science from day one. 

But I also don't understand. You're saying we are having a drop in cases, but people are being encouraged to lie on forms, which should increase numbers? Also I should get my medical advice from people from youtube asking me to hit that like and subscribe button?

A lot of the decrease in deaths are from improvement in management. People weren't being ventilated properly, we weren't using proning, lots of people throwing the kitchen sink like HCQ, steroids, azithro, remdesivir, and whatever else they could get there hands on at it. It all happened in a few cities, massive onslaught, with few staff and poor working conditions. Now its spreading in multiple areas in the country leading to wide spread increase in cases, but if you look locally, we have actually significantly decrease spread. 

Data without good interpretation, perhaps more importantly, tempered interpretations (like you claim we aren't doing) leads to erroneous conclusions. I mean, you are doing exactly what you accuse us of doing. You took a piece of data, and ran with it. No worries. You're passionate. 

Also, I guess I'm just not sure why you care if we care. Are you implying we are sheeple needing to get woke? Because I would say that is the pot calling the kettle black.

 

Advice from doctors personal interviews that were posted on FB or Youtube does not discredit them. There is a INCREASE in cases and a decrease in deaths. The masking started several weeks ago or even longer so why the increase if the mask are so effective? Not talking about treatment by any means. I interpret the data fine, I am just stating there is no EBM on masking and you all should know that surgical mask to not stop Covid or TB etc. There are doctors on news channels stating the same thing. But you will want to hear what you only want to hear. It saddens me that a lot of health care providers don't step back and think about cloth mask, etc....They should only be worn by sick people or immunocompromised patients. I never worn a mask in a room (when I was not sick) with a patient that had cancer that was wearing a mask to protect themselves. I have never seen any doctor do this in my 10+ years and during rotations. 

[camoman1234]

5 hours ago, ANESMCR said:

Not much left to add. I do have a couple question’s however. Say everyone accepts that deaths are decreasing (over reported rather than under reported), and that masks aren’t sufficient enough to, at the very least, stymie spread. Rather than political talking points, what’s your ultimate goal here? What benefit does this provide? And what’s your alternative solution? 

I just think people slammed me for posting the facts about mask (from our training and from the manufacturer) but they still give me a thumbs down and try to discredit me by giving what they already knew but are just falling what the masses are telling them to do. Also, we are so proud of following EBM but we don't follow it or care about it when now? How about H1N1 2009 pandemic? Did we have mandatory masking? NO! I just think it is funny people follow around with their heads cut off but don't actually look at their facts, knowledge, background, etc. The mask is a false sense of security, most people will break the 6ft distance rules, they touch the nasty contaminated mask 1,000 times a day and spread germs, etc. It is like wearing a white coat but never washing it. You are literally making the issue worse by no adhering to the standard protocols of masking. These mask are not to be worn for more than 8 hrs (pending on the manufacturers guidelines), they are not oil resistance and they do not protect against Covid or airborne diseases. The benefit is to make sure we are all still thinking for ourselves and from our training not from the media or other sources and to not belittle people that challenge the status quo. Does that clear up some of the points you were seeking?

Here is a link that I quickly looked up about surgical mask as someone commented on and thought they were being a smarta$$ about wearing a mask in surgery.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/face-masks-and-surgical-masks-covid-19-manufacturing-purchasing-importing-and-donating-masks-during

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks#s4

Q: Is there a difference between a mask and a respirator?

A: Masks and respirators both cover a wearer’s nose and mouth, but they differ in several aspects.

Masks are loose fitting and may not provide full protection from breathing in airborne pathogens, such as viruses.

• Face masks (non-surgical masks) may not provide protection from fluids or may not filter particles, needed to protect against pathogens, such as viruses. They are not for surgical use and are not considered personal protective equipment.
• Surgical masks are fluid-resistant, disposable, and loose-fitting devices that create a physical barrier between the mouth and nose of the wearer and the immediate environment. They are for use in surgical settings and do not provide full protection from inhalation of airborne pathogens, such as viruses.
• Surgical masks are not intended to be used more than once.

[camoman1234]

11 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Scroll about half way down to the New Cases of Covid graph and New Daily Deaths Covid graph. Interesting that most people haven't seen this online or on TV per our last discussion on here about making. I was attacked by several people, PAs making false claims about masks, deaths, quoting the Lancet (was recently found guilty and retracted a article on hydroxychloroquine). Not looking at all sides as it is being reported that Covid deaths are attributed to any comorbidity. Look up the Illinois State Medical Director speaking about this or Good Morning America or other doctors on youtube being pressured to put covid on the death certificate. Lastly if the masking is helping so much then why are we getting a huge increase in cases?

@RealityCheck

@TWR

@greenmood

Why do you dislike my post? You don't like the fact that cases are increasing but deaths are in a decline since May?  I truly don't understand why anyone would dislike this....do you want more deaths? Help me understand your logic. 

[ANESMCR]

1 hour ago, camoman1234 said:

I just think people slammed me for posting the facts about mask (from our training and from the manufacturer) but they still give me a thumbs down and try to discredit me by giving what they already knew but are just falling what the masses are telling them to do. Also, we are so proud of following EBM but we don't follow it or care about it when now? How about H1N1 2009 pandemic? Did we have mandatory masking? NO! I just think it is funny people follow around with their heads cut off but don't actually look at their facts, knowledge, background, etc. The mask is a false sense of security, most people will break the 6ft distance rules, they touch the nasty contaminated mask 1,000 times a day and spread germs, etc. It is like wearing a white coat but never washing it. You are literally making the issue worse by no adhering to the standard protocols of masking. These mask are not to be worn for more than 8 hrs (pending on the manufacturers guidelines), they are not oil resistance and they do not protect against Covid or airborne diseases. The benefit is to make sure we are all still thinking for ourselves and from our training not from the media or other sources and to not belittle people that challenge the status quo. Does that clear up some of the points you were seeking?

Here is a link that I quickly looked up about surgical mask as someone commented on and thought they were being a smarta$$ about wearing a mask in surgery.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/face-masks-and-surgical-masks-covid-19-manufacturing-purchasing-importing-and-donating-masks-during

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks#s4

Q: Is there a difference between a mask and a respirator?

A: Masks and respirators both cover a wearer’s nose and mouth, but they differ in several aspects.

Masks are loose fitting and may not provide full protection from breathing in airborne pathogens, such as viruses.

• Face masks (non-surgical masks) may not provide protection from fluids or may not filter particles, needed to protect against pathogens, such as viruses. They are not for surgical use and are not considered personal protective equipment.
• Surgical masks are fluid-resistant, disposable, and loose-fitting devices that create a physical barrier between the mouth and nose of the wearer and the immediate environment. They are for use in surgical settings and do not provide full protection from inhalation of airborne pathogens, such as viruses.
• Surgical masks are not intended to be used more than once.

I get it. You want both sides of the aisle to take account of the entire picture. I’ve not seen that go both ways. I’ve seen more disinformation and anti-science from one particular side. You do admit they affect transmission however, even though minuscule correct? Being said, and being providers, we never tell anyone something is 100% effective. So I’m confused as to what benefits people receive by not wearing masks vs wearing masks. Wearing masks helps, by some percentage, reduce transmission rates does it not? 

Edited July 6, 2020 by ANESMCR

[SedRate]

1 hour ago, camoman1234 said:

I just think people slammed me for posting the facts about mask (from our training and from the manufacturer) but they still give me a thumbs down and try to discredit me by giving what they already knew but are just falling what the masses are telling them to do. Also, we are so proud of following EBM but we don't follow it or care about it when now? How about H1N1 2009 pandemic? Did we have mandatory masking? NO! I just think it is funny people follow around with their heads cut off but don't actually look at their facts, knowledge, background, etc. The mask is a false sense of security, most people will break the 6ft distance rules, they touch the nasty contaminated mask 1,000 times a day and spread germs, etc. It is like wearing a white coat but never washing it. You are literally making the issue worse by no adhering to the standard protocols of masking. These mask are not to be worn for more than 8 hrs (pending on the manufacturers guidelines), they are not oil resistance and they do not protect against Covid or airborne diseases. The benefit is to make sure we are all still thinking for ourselves and from our training not from the media or other sources and to not belittle people that challenge the status quo. Does that clear up some of the points you were seeking?

Here is a link that I quickly looked up about surgical mask as someone commented on and thought they were being a smarta$$ about wearing a mask in surgery.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/face-masks-and-surgical-masks-covid-19-manufacturing-purchasing-importing-and-donating-masks-during

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks#s4

Q: Is there a difference between a mask and a respirator?

A: Masks and respirators both cover a wearer’s nose and mouth, but they differ in several aspects.

Masks are loose fitting and may not provide full protection from breathing in airborne pathogens, such as viruses.

• Face masks (non-surgical masks) may not provide protection from fluids or may not filter particles, needed to protect against pathogens, such as viruses. They are not for surgical use and are not considered personal protective equipment.
• Surgical masks are fluid-resistant, disposable, and loose-fitting devices that create a physical barrier between the mouth and nose of the wearer and the immediate environment. They are for use in surgical settings and do not provide full protection from inhalation of airborne pathogens, such as viruses.
• Surgical masks are not intended to be used more than once.

Agree. Wearing a mask has given some a false sense of security, enabling them to think they can disregard other important recommendations, like social distancing. Furthermore, these masks are often ill-fitting and worn for prolonged periods of time which is uncomfortable whereby causing some to constantly readjust them and therefore increasing their risk.

Hell, even as someone who works in surgery and has had to routinely wear a mask for 8+ hours straight for long heart and trauma cases, when I tried to wear one of those crappy, cheapy disposable ones with the ear loops, I found myself constantly having to adjust it because of how poorly fit it was. I've seen people walk around with these below their nose or pull them down below their chin for comfort or when talking. One could argue this is hurting more than helping. Now if people could wear these as they should be worn over their nose and mouth, not constantly touch them, and maintain other hygiene habits like sanitizer/hand washing everytime before and after touching their face, social distancing, staying home when I'll, etc, then maybe we could get somewhere with all this.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

7 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

Advice from doctors personal interviews that were posted on FB or Youtube does not discredit them. There is a INCREASE in cases and a decrease in deaths. The masking started several weeks ago or even longer so why the increase if the mask are so effective? Not talking about treatment by any means. I interpret the data fine, I am just stating there is no EBM on masking and you all should know that surgical mask to not stop Covid or TB etc. There are doctors on news channels stating the same thing. But you will want to hear what you only want to hear. It saddens me that a lot of health care providers don't step back and think about cloth mask, etc....They should only be worn by sick people or immunocompromised patients. I never worn a mask in a room (when I was not sick) with a patient that had cancer that was wearing a mask to protect themselves. I have never seen any doctor do this in my 10+ years and during rotations. 

oh, I get it. I see the numbers. I’m just interpreting them differently because I’m looking at it from every perspective and not just yours. It’s possible that you’re right, but if you are wrong thousands more will die. If your right and people wear mask for nothing, people are just mildly inconvenienced. Pretty okay with the latter. Plus I don’t take EBM notes from someone who doesn’t believe in EBM.
 

I’m not going to sit here and pretend that I’ve not had doubts about the efficacy of cloth masks, but there is enough data to support their use based on a risk vs benefits. It’s literally the least you could do. And you’ve never seen reverse precautions? You’ve never seen someone in the ED with suspected meningitis placed in a mask? Must’ve had some poor rotations.

7 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

@RealityCheck

@TWR

@greenmood

Why do you dislike my post? You don't like the fact that cases are increasing but deaths are in a decline since May?  I truly don't understand why anyone would dislike this....do you want more deaths? Help me understand your logic. 

They dislike your interpretation, Spin Doctor. Don’t be obtuse, or are you really that thick?

[True Anomaly]

On 7/6/2020 at 10:59 AM, camoman1234 said:

How about H1N1 2009 pandemic? Did we have mandatory masking? NO!

 

You know why we didn’t have mandatory masks and shutdowns during H1N1?  Because we very very quickly had a vaccine available

[EMEDPA]

Covid aside, I wear a mask any time I go into the room of a neutropenic patient or someone on chemo. One of my rural jobs is next door to a cancer center, so we take precautions for anyone sent from there for eval of fever, weakness, etc. I would do the same for someone with any significant immunocompromise, like advanced AIDS, etc. I have not been ill  with more than the sniffles in probably 20 years. That doesn't mean that I can't be an asymptomatic carrier of any number of nasty viruses, which I could pass to someone without a functioning immune system. . 

[camoman1234]

On 7/6/2020 at 12:16 PM, ANESMCR said:

I get it. You want both sides of the aisle to take account of the entire picture. I’ve not seen that go both ways. I’ve seen more disinformation and anti-science from one particular side. You do admit they affect transmission however, even though minuscule correct? Being said, and being providers, we never tell anyone something is 100% effective. So I’m confused as to what benefits people receive by not wearing masks vs wearing masks. Wearing masks helps, by some percentage, reduce transmission rates does it not? 

Oh I am sure it does help some, there is no proof but common sense tells us that. But it also confers to people that they get very relaxed on hand hygiene or social distancing. I think it gives people a HUGE false sense of hope/comfort that should not be there. Also, we do not know the side effects of younger people wearing mask for long times as well as adults (tight fitting mask or cloth). There has to be CO2 retention (there was some videos online that were proving this, but we do need controlled studies on this as well) and/or hypoxic states. I am truly glad we can have a professional discussion and I thank you! I truly do! It means a lot that you might not agree with everything I say but we can still discuss it without name calling etc.  

[camoman1234]

On 7/6/2020 at 1:34 PM, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

oh, I get it. I see the numbers. I’m just interpreting them differently because I’m looking at it from every perspective and not just yours. It’s possible that you’re right, but if you are wrong thousands more will die. If your right and people wear mask for nothing, people are just mildly inconvenienced. Pretty okay with the latter. Plus I don’t take EBM notes from someone who doesn’t believe in EBM.
 

I’m not going to sit here and pretend that I’ve not had doubts about the efficacy of cloth masks, but there is enough data to support their use based on a risk vs benefits. It’s literally the least you could do. And you’ve never seen reverse precautions? You’ve never seen someone in the ED with suspected meningitis placed in a mask? Must’ve had some poor rotations.

They dislike your interpretation, Spin Doctor. Don’t be obtuse, or are you really that thick?

Oh I had excellent rotations in one the largest trauma center in my entire state! Meningitis is not what I am talking about, I am talking about chemo patients or very old people. Have never seen a provider just put a mask on for one of these patients. It is always the person that is sick or old that is worried about getting sick that wears one. 

I don't wear a mask in public for numerous reasons but we don't know the long term effects of wearing a properly fitting mask for hours and hours. Surgical mask you can breathe nicely, but if I am wearing a mask I am wearing a tight fitting N-95.  

[camoman1234]

2 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

Covid aside, I wear a mask any time I go into the room of a neutropenic patient or someone on chemo. One of my rural jobs is next door to a cancer center, so we take precautions for anyone sent from there for eval of fever, weakness, etc. I would do the same for someone with any significant immunocompromise, like advanced AIDS, etc. I have not been ill  with more than the sniffles in probably 20 years. That doesn't mean that I can't be an asymptomatic carrier of any number of nasty viruses, which I could pass to someone without a functioning immune system. . 

4 hours ago, True Anomaly said:

You know why we didn’t have mandatory masks and shutdowns during H1N1?  Because we very very quickly had a vaccine available

No we did not. And the vaccine does not confer a 100% immunity and not everyone can take it or will take it. That is the issue. Show me proof that we had a vaccine so quickly during H1N1. 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

1 hour ago, camoman1234 said:

Oh I had excellent rotations in one the largest trauma center in my entire state! Meningitis is not what I am talking about, I am talking about chemo patients or very old people. Have never seen a provider just put a mask on for one of these patients. It is always the person that is sick or old that is worried about getting sick that wears one. 

I don't wear a mask in public for numerous reasons but we don't know the long term effects of wearing a properly fitting mask for hours and hours. Surgical mask you can breathe nicely, but if I am wearing a mask I am wearing a tight fitting N-95.  

We know there are no long term effects. TB sanitoriums still exist And those people where p100s all damn day. They are fine.

and seriously, never did reverse precautions?

 

listen, Tim, it’s time to present some actual evidence, not just associated data, or GTFO.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

37 minutes ago, camoman1234 said:

No we did not. And the vaccine does not confer a 100% immunity and not everyone can take it or will take it. That is the issue. Show me proof that we had a vaccine so quickly during H1N1. 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-pandemic-timeline.html
 

we had a vaccine In 6 months.

[Cideous]

My wife and I were discussing this evening asshats.  

People that ignore science, ignore doing anything that would potentially protect others and willfully look for any reason to "not be told what to do...."

She was disgusted by them and asked who, in their right mind, would fail to do the very least to protect those around her?

I told her that some providers are the worst culprits.  

A splash of Brietbart, a touch of Limbaugh and a dash of 'Merica!  You can't tell me what to do!"...

And there you have it.  Asshats that for whatever reason would put their own families at risk just to endeavor to prove a point.  She shrugged and sighed.

 

p.s. QAnon is not real not matter how much you want him to be.

 

November 3rd cometh quickly...and right soon.

[MediMike]

On 7/6/2020 at 8:59 AM, camoman1234 said:

I just think people slammed me for posting the facts about mask (from our training and from the manufacturer) but they still give me a thumbs down and try to discredit me by giving what they already knew but are just falling what the masses are telling them to do. Also, we are so proud of following EBM but we don't follow it or care about it when now? How about H1N1 2009 pandemic? Did we have mandatory masking? NO! I just think it is funny people follow around with their heads cut off but don't actually look at their facts, knowledge, background, etc. The mask is a false sense of security, most people will break the 6ft distance rules, they touch the nasty contaminated mask 1,000 times a day and spread germs, etc. It is like wearing a white coat but never washing it. You are literally making the issue worse by no adhering to the standard protocols of masking. These mask are not to be worn for more than 8 hrs (pending on the manufacturers guidelines), they are not oil resistance and they do not protect against Covid or airborne diseases. The benefit is to make sure we are all still thinking for ourselves and from our training not from the media or other sources and to not belittle people that challenge the status quo. Does that clear up some of the points you were seeking?

Here is a link that I quickly looked up about surgical mask as someone commented on and thought they were being a smarta$$ about wearing a mask in surgery.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/face-masks-and-surgical-masks-covid-19-manufacturing-purchasing-importing-and-donating-masks-during

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks#s4

Q: Is there a difference between a mask and a respirator?

A: Masks and respirators both cover a wearer’s nose and mouth, but they differ in several aspects.

Masks are loose fitting and may not provide full protection from breathing in airborne pathogens, such as viruses.

• Face masks (non-surgical masks) may not provide protection from fluids or may not filter particles, needed to protect against pathogens, such as viruses. They are not for surgical use and are not considered personal protective equipment.
• Surgical masks are fluid-resistant, disposable, and loose-fitting devices that create a physical barrier between the mouth and nose of the wearer and the immediate environment. They are for use in surgical settings and do not provide full protection from inhalation of airborne pathogens, such as viruses.
• Surgical masks are not intended to be used more than once.

Gosh. Now you're just hurting my feelings. I am rubber and you are glue sir/madam.

But... I'm not entirely sure that trolls have gender. So carry on with your whacky self. Preferably somewhere else.

 

[ANESMCR]

7 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

No we did not. And the vaccine does not confer a 100% immunity and not everyone can take it or will take it. That is the issue. Show me proof that we had a vaccine so quickly during H1N1. 

C’mon man. This is the entire point folks are trying to bring to your attention. There is evidence that masks work. We all know they are no where near 100% effective, hardly even 50%. This reminds me of the conversation with that anti-vaxxer (not saying you’re one) a few months ago here. He/she’s entire agenda was based solely on the fact that vaccines don’t “100%” prevent what they’re designed to prevent...so therefore they are ineffective and unnecessary. There is no logic there. 

[camoman1234]

19 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

We know there are no long term effects. TB sanitoriums still exist And those people where p100s all damn day. They are fine.

and seriously, never did reverse precautions?

 

listen, Tim, it’s time to present some actual evidence, not just associated data, or GTFO.

Come on man. Please quit being so hostile. It would be very hard to work by you daily if you are truly how you interact with people. P100 are much different and breathable as they are used in construction daily. I am not talking about those. I can breathe via my P100 much easier than my level 1, 2 or 3 facemask. That's what everyone is wearing and there is zero research for that. 6 months is a while so I wonder why there was no masking? Was that 6 months not important and this 6 months is? Maybe election year? If you treat me like an a$$ again we are done with this conversation. Please be respectful.

[camoman1234]

15 hours ago, Cideous said:

My wife and I were discussing this evening asshats.  

People that ignore science, ignore doing anything that would potentially protect others and willfully look for any reason to "not be told what to do...."

She was disgusted by them and asked who, in their right mind, would fail to do the very least to protect those around her?

I told her that some providers are the worst culprits.  

A splash of Brietbart, a touch of Limbaugh and a dash of 'Merica!  You can't tell me what to do!"...

And there you have it.  Asshats that for whatever reason would put their own families at risk just to endeavor to prove a point.  She shrugged and sighed.

 

p.s. QAnon is not real not matter how much you want him to be.

 

November 3rd cometh quickly...and right soon.

Then you better wear a mask 24/7 7 days a week for the rest of you and your families lives as viruses will be around forever. Dont be a a$$hat and take that mask off ever! Bring on the politics buddy as this is not what this is about. How am I ignoring science when you know that mask does not filter the virus. False sense of hope man. Use your immune system. I care about others and if they are sick or on chemo then they should wear a mask. I wash my hands and cover my cough like any adult should do. I social distance.

[UGoLong]

It's all in the estimation of risk vs reward. Take a drug with unknown side effects? No. Put on a mask to help protect other people: why the heck not? 

As an old guy who has seen this before, this time, some of our leaders decided to make wearing masks (or not) a political thing. I just glad Eisenhower didn't call people who took the polio vaccine wusses...

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

3 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

Come on man. Please quit being so hostile. It would be very hard to work by you daily if you are truly how you interact with people. P100 are much different and breathable as they are used in construction daily. I am not talking about those. I can breathe via my P100 much easier than my level 1, 2 or 3 facemask. That's what everyone is wearing and there is zero research for that. 6 months is a while so I wonder why there was no masking? Was that 6 months not important and this 6 months is? Maybe election year? If you treat me like an a$$ again we are done with this conversation. Please be respectful.

Please don’t confuse my passion for dispelling misinformation as me having any feelings for you Tim. I’m equally passionate at work against people who endanger patients with misinformation and poor evidence. You’ve presented zero evidence and not countered any presented. So if you don’t, this conversation is over.

p100 are easier to breath through with their improved seal and higher particle filtration? Again, you spouting facts without evidence. I wear a p100 at work and while easy to breath through it definitely takes more effort than a n95.

lots of people are wearing p100s. I wear it. Many people do. I’m not sure how a higher level filter is easier to breath through though?

you keep moving the goal posts. First it’s “oh I’m not talking about cloth.” Then “oh I’m not taking about the higher filters.” Are you Goldie locks? The situation has to be just right for your argument to work?

3 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

Then you better wear a mask 24/7 7 days a week for the rest of you and your families lives as viruses will be around forever. Dont be a a$$hat and take that mask off ever! Bring on the politics buddy as this is not what this is about. How am I ignoring science when you know that mask does not filter the virus. False sense of hope man. Use your immune system. I care about others and if they are sick or on chemo then they should wear a mask. I wash my hands and cover my cough like any adult should do. I social distance.

the mask does not filter the virus but filters their vehicle, droplets. This has been demonstrated over and over easily. As you like to point as evidence, look at the YouTube videos of all the microbiologists coughing, sneezing, talking at various distances with and without clothe mask at a culture medium. While not fool proof protection from airborne, it’s better than nothing as it will still minimize droplets that definitely contain the virus. Also, as was said before, it’s really the least you can do. 
 

you have provided no evidence that masks are harmful. No definitive evidence that masks do not decrease transmission. No definitive evidence of any of your claims. No willingness to accept explanations of the data. You’ve shown either compete disregard or ignorance of reverse isolation https://www.liscript.com/neutropenic-precautions/

there has been ample evidence presented to you, some you even requested, yet no response. 

Post something of substance,  man, so we can know some wheels are turning.

[JoeM]

23 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

Oh I am sure it does help some, there is no proof but common sense tells us that. But it also confers to people that they get very relaxed on hand hygiene or social distancing. I think it gives people a HUGE false sense of hope/comfort that should not be there. Also, we do not know the side effects of younger people wearing mask for long times as well as adults (tight fitting mask or cloth). There has to be CO2 retention (there was some videos online that were proving this, but we do need controlled studies on this as well) and/or hypoxic states. I am truly glad we can have a professional discussion and I thank you! I truly do! It means a lot that you might not agree with everything I say but we can still discuss it without name calling etc.  

Do you seriously think there is carbon dioxide retention? Seriously? Seriously? THIS IS NOT A THING

 

conspiracy theories offer simple explanations of non-simple problems for the simple-minded......

Edited July 9, 2020 by JoeM

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/07/florida-carsyn-davis-coronavirus/
 

this is why misinformation has to be fought, even amongst the educated.

not saying anyone here is advocating for all that went wrong here, but even a little misinformation is damaging