BS/MS combined PA programs

[Christine616]

Hi all,

I hope I'm in the right forum. I typically spent most of my time in the Pre-PA discussion part as I am applying to PA school this cycle. I have been going to many information sessions (only positive when it comes to COVID-19 they are all online!) and interestingly one of them had a separate graduate/undergraduate admission session before combining both into one session. Since then, I was wondering how does everybody feel about BS/MS combined PA programs especially since some admission head of such programs say that they will eventually get rid of the MS only program and transitioned fully to BS/MS combined programs.

As much as I HATED the PCE requirement being a newly graduated undergraduate with no experience, now after gaining over 5000+ hours of PCE as a medical assistant I would not have it any other way. I felt like it has made me more prepared to become a PA because it exposed me to realities of the medical field that I felt like I would not have realized without my PCE. I even mentioned this to the MD i work with and she stated that in her opinion it was not a smart path to go down especially since both her and I watched as an Nurse Practioner that got into to school without any PCE  only to crumble in her first job post graduation when it came time to deal with patients and ended up leaving medicine all together. Just thought it would be an interesting discussion because can an 18 year old  (in a general sense because I know a teenager who is thinking about going down this route and he has already taken the initiative to take classes to become an EMT and I think he is one of the exceptions to this) straight out of high school really prepared to become a PA in 5-6 years.  

[Christine616]

I'm glad someone agrees with me! I thought I was being a bit too harsh on these teenagers to be honest. And yeah I agree about the emotional maturity aspect as well even more so than the PCE. Again as much as I hate the roundabout journey i've taken to finally be able to confidentially apply this cycle I wouldn't change it for anything because I think I have what it takes to go into PA school and be a successful GPA. The only thing stopping me is thanks to the long gap year between undergraduate and now I have to retake all my classes but again it prepares me for PA school because I work full time and then go to night school so I have great time management skills and learned to thrive under pressure (where as when I was in college i crumbled and that was me being in school full time so it doesn't even come close to what PA school will be like) 

[ohiovolffemtp]

I can't find out if they still do it, but when I went to Kettering, they offered a combined BS/MPAS pathway.  There were a few students in my class that did it.  One was an older returning student and the other was young.  I believe she was close to fresh out of high school when she started.  For them they went 5 years and received both degrees.  Both did well, got jobs, and have been practicing for a number of years.

[DizzyJ]

I went to a BS program.  It was a so-called 2+2 program.  2 years of pre-reqs and then 2 years of PA program.  I spent 4 years finding myself at a community college.  So, I just did the PA program portion and was 25 when I graduated.  Several in my class were 22 at graduation.  So, I don't think there is anything wrong with a combined BS/MS program.  

[SHU-CH]

We admit students through a BS/MS program and directly to the MS program and we try to keep it somewhat even. It creates a nice mix. The younger students have a good deal of "academic endurance" and know how to plow through exams and keep up with studying. The folks that have been out of school for a while and have worked and made car payment and dealt with rent often have better "street smarts." The groups learn from each other. 

In the end, if you look at the two populations exam for exam, course for course, preceptor eval for preceptor eval, and PANCE score for PANCE score, there's not a significant difference. PA students that are dedicated and hardworking - and almost all of them are - pretty much all turn out well in the end, without regard to their route of entry. 

[Apollo1]

I don't agree with the premise of combined BS/MS programs. There's already been a shift in matriculating student populations where greater numbers of students with lesser amounts/lesser quality of PCE are being admitted. These students are able to get through the curriculum, but if we're being totally honest the difficulty w/ PA school is the volume of information (i.e. the material itself isn't conceptually difficult).

The big issue that hasn't been mentioned yet is "how do PA students without PCE (or minimal PCE) fare against PA students with greater amounts of meaningful PCE when they first enter practice". PANCE scores and preceptor evals don't necessarily account for this because it's not easily measured, but it is readily identified by your frontline staff (ex. nurses, other providers).

Bringing in more PA's without meaningful PCE most likely means there is a longer period of time before they are functioning at an appropriate level. If our profession is going to make an argument about needing more PA's (especially in the context of OTP), there needs to be a focus on developing providers who already have experience taking care of patients. Otherwise, your simply putting out more bodies without actually increasing/improving the quality of care available.

[TheFatMan]

I feel that people who are going into those programs should just go to med school, unless they have the experience and somehow haven't done any undergrad work. The intention of the profession was for it to be a second career for those who already had a lot of (good) experience and therefore would be better suited for more condensed training. The idea was that the experience would fill in some gaps between PA school and med school. If you can't 'fill in the gaps' then you are doing yourself a disservice by going to PA school - in my opinion.