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HUDDLE has tried to quiet another one, but............


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I recently logged into my HUDDLE account and noted that I was now "disabled" in my account. This was after I decided, about a year ago to get more involved in the PA profession of which I have not been a part of for 20 years. 

This also came after attempt after attempt, even private phone calls from the president of AAPA, the Mittmans, the two James' and many others who consider themselves the AAPA "elite". I documented ON HUDDLE, my displeasure with this and the unprofessional manner in which they would privately email me. They also make this assumption that somehow we are not as "smart" as they are, or that they are more deserving of THEIR opinion because they feel they have been more involved. I noted for years the most common way they attack others, which is in it's form a pure form of passive-aggressive bullying, was to ask the person whose opinion they do not like "what have YOU done?" or "I never see YOU at the meetings" etc... I asked many times within the huddle pages that they refrain from doing this. Everyone's opinion matters and everyone counts, though we do not have to agree, they have the right and they pay dues like everyone. And undoubtedly we do not know  what they have done, are doing, or want to do related to the PA profession which is theirs as much as it is the "AAPA eiites"

I am not done fighting though and I do not LIKE running for office, but have decided unless I do - which is only a wish right now - we are always going to be up against a weird machine, almost like a union of a few, who control all things AAPA. I feel that many intentions have been good over the years but AAPA has let us down and got us in a very tough position due to their apathy and lack of foresight in noting the loss of PA jobs due to the very issue of independence. It is an issue where docs have given up on NP's and so they get to practice with impunity on their own, while they are holding tight to us as "assistants" and making our fight harder now. I will also be clear (I say this alot) that I do not believe we are doctor level. Nor do I believe we somehow fooled everyone and had to go 2 years while THEY had to go all those years. No, I have deep respect for doctors and the profession. There are good and bad ones of all professions. This is about OUR survival as a profession (we HAVE to be able to compete with NP's where they have independence as they are an easy hire compared to us and they already outnumber us 4:1  -or 3:1 and rising depending on which research one looks at). 

 I have called them out on huddle and in private emails as to the way they have failed to see this issue clearly or listen to those who tried to raise a voice (who I have learned, many, like me, were simply "silenced" when they didn't like what you had to say. One, a certain "lawyer" on HUDDLE in nearly every single disucssion who feels apparently he owns all things HUDDLE (he was the one who inserted, without asking others apparently, the "praxiotioner"  new name proposal in our expensive so-called survey wherein the ONLY answer that didn't seem like a joke name was "associate") emailed me privately and literally attacked me saying "What is it you want?!" And that I needed to stop talking about independence for PA's because I was "Making them MAD!"  Who "them" were he did not say, but I got other phone calls and emails from the "elites". When I emailed him back and explained that I would not be bullied by him or anyone else, he wrote back and with a typical hypocritical manner I see in so many who maintain their own so-callled "accepting" of others and liberal leanings, said I attacked "him" and wrote back as if I had done so. I was incensed to say the least at his gall and ignorance. But this is what is happening behind the scenes on huddle. I do not want to use THIS forum to name names or such but any of us in the know, familiar with huddle, would know these people anyway. Many of you have had the same treatment. 

I had an incident wherein the head and I emailed somethings back and forth in private related to how I was feeling this was unprofessional (the bullying and the phone calls and private emails) and something told to her in private somehow made it to this certain lawyer and he emailed me in anger over it. So private isn't private and they work together to quiet people. 

Lets be clear on this too. I noted that the issue of independence had reached a critical level given the incredible rise of the nurse practitioner and the Sally Struthers schools of quick online NP certifications cropping up and that they had a meteoric rise with the financial and political clout to get anything they want. NOTHING they do included us in anyway. I do not begrudge their ambition and wisdom in rising and moving forward while we literally stagnate. We seem to accept all along these little bones to chew on and never getting that independence we need while losing jobs by the dozens now. Some argue jobs are there,  maybe, in SOME places. But they are bad ones often on INDEED for years because no one wants them. We have been locked out of many jobs due to their  rise and push. I read and saw that HUDDLE tried to put down anyone who talked independence and they were punted to "Optimal Team Practice" .....which then was known to no doctors or administrators and was another philosophical "concept" written by those elite (it was done on their desires without the opinion or approval of the AAPA members) and we had to accept this as the new PA bible of practice and they would say to everyone, "It takes time" "we don't want to make them hate us" "independence just means more headaches," blah blah blah. Never anything decisive.

But we couldn't "wait" any longer I felt and feel. I only wanted to help and make a push forward - obviously I like to write 😉 - I had the time, and the ambition. I am getting close to retirement age and I am not the one benefitting, but the future of the profession is at stake (I do believe my seriousness about the situation and spelling out the argument on huddle DID open some eyes) But then there were calls telling to me quiet down about PA independence, or to tell me not to post so much and it was so unprofessional in my opinion (others, like those mentioned post on EVERY forum topic started. I do not even come close. I trolled for years on HUDDLE with very little involvement and waited for the moment).

I also saw some things in my state I really did not like. My workplace had 2 PA's. 2 only and we were the ONLY FQHC (low cost clinic) in the entire county, we had 2 brand new beautiful clinics, but could only HAVE 2 PA's. Why? Because our old retired doctor was only allowed to supervised 2 FTE's and he himself would not see patients. We had no doctor on staff to see patients. We did have 6 NP's and we could have a million if they wanted to hire, but the best PA -Do not even apply as we can only have two. So jobs WERE lost,  but only for PA's. Students and friends would ask if we had openings and I'd have to say, "only for NP's we can't hire anymore PAs".. Why is that again? They need NO SUPERVISION and the clinic refused to find or hire another doctor! I did have to have a sitter and I was the most experienced provider. My training compared to the 2 NP's in my office was off the charts. I had nearly 5000 clinical hours in PA school! and that was after a long career as a big city, full-time paramedic.

 The new NP went straight through nurse to NP, worked some PT in a local ER, and then did school online and his 500 hours, yes 500 clinical hours! in an internal medicine doctors office who did not see children. Yet he was then hired to work beside me receiving ambulance patients - as critical as could be (Utah they have a clause where some clinics can receive ambulances to stabilize before the ER) and see all ages and do urgent care. He barely sewed anything. But their perception is they are equals to those who hire and actually "above" us, as they sell themselves and all they have to say is "They have to have a doctor supervise them; we don't.". The other one had to ask me how to "stain an eye" and I think that's when I said, something is REALLY wrong here. I do not hate them, I am not against the NP's, they just aren't "us" clinically, yet we have to have by state law and physician demand supervisors and for some reason the NP is seen as MORE CAPABLE.

 

This is wrong and I want to change it and independence is a means to put us on semi-equal footing, minus the fact they way outnumber us now. We both began as professions the same year, 1965. Chew on that a little. 

Anyone who has been pushed around on huddle I would love to hear your story and I want to compile some of your issues with it. I don't know what I can do, but I have that eye of the tiger and I am a fighter - not a mean one - but a fighter nonetheless. I give permission to email me. You can even tell me I am wrong and I will listen - maybe not agree, but listen. I am fallible too. hcafaculty@hotmail.com           

Dale "Jamie" Bingham PA-C, MPAS, MPH. University of Utah grad. President-elect of the Association of Family Practice Physician Assistants and Nurse Practitioners (AFPPANP)

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4 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

There are those here who will try to bully you down if you don't agree with independent practice rights after 2 years of PA school.

Yeah, I don't think so.  I mean, they can yell and scream or whatnot, but 1) the other participants can't email you; you can turn off notifications for private messages here, and 2) while most of the staff here have a pro-graduated independent practice bent in some way, shape, or form, that's neither enforced nor normative.  Fact is, it's Huddle's own refusal to tolerate dissent that makes this a place favored by people who favor independent practice, of whatever speed or stripe.  That, and we allow pseudonymity and non-AAPA members, although most of the old timers have disclosed identifying information and/or are AAPA members.

We don't generally hand out warnings for being passive aggressive.  I DO secure message people privately if I see an issue, and offer concrete suggestions to improve the situation as often as I can see them.

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This is a different and much better forum than Huddle.

The key question in the fight for better scope of practice for PA's, whether OTP, independence, or targeted relief of restrictions, is how to make it happen.  The key decision makers are largely state legislators and in some cases federal regulators.  So, the answer to that question is not about what is right, but rather how to work the political process.  That answer for us is going to be different than the answer for NP's because we don't have the political clout the nursing lobby does.

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22 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

There are those here who will try to bully you down if you don't agree with independent practice rights after 2 years of PA school.

Good luck!

We have easily banned more people yelling about independent practice than the other way around. It’s mostly about how disruptive one is and not our personal politics.

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I don’t visit the huddle anymore. But when I was, I did appreciate you in particular speaking out for us. Especially those with little voice. I was about to name the person you are primarily referring to, as I also had issues with him, but I think it’s safe to assume everyone knows who you’re talking about. 

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Thought to the OP - BULLET POINTS - I love your passion but got lost in your post.

This forum is so much more honest and real - the Huddle is only there to reinforce someone else's idea of what the ideal PA world is.

Anonymity on this site is priceless. I don't need or want anyone much less employer trolling my thoughts.

Back to a new normal COVID Monday.... whatever the hell that is.

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I lasted a few weeks on huddle - was answering questions honestly on Pay and bennies - they moderated (deleted) almost every comment I made......  no more, they can have it

 

Yes I am one that believes in graduated independence.  I precept students and just hired a new grad.  o

I believe we have a responsibility to society to not endanger it - and having 1-2 years of supervised practice (supervised by a more established PA or a Doc - NOT an NP) is the way to go.  I just don't feel right with even trying to convince a policy maker that 6-7 semesters of schooling makes you independent (in spite of what nursing says)    But we should walk our own path...

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On 6/21/2020 at 12:44 AM, rev ronin said:

Yeah, I don't think so

Ive been called quite a few names ("boomer!") for saying that if one wants to have independence....rhen go to doctor school.

 

On 6/21/2020 at 6:07 PM, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

We have easily banned more people yelling about independent practice than the other way around

was not trying to infer that PAF endorsed anything.

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18 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Ive been called quite a few names ("boomer!") for saying that if one wants to have independence....[then] go to doctor school.

Fair enough, but that's more of a feature of us letting people have their own opinions and a good bit of latitude to express them, rather than any sort of enforced orthodoxy.  You're free to oppose independence; others are free to portray you as a counterrevolutionary. 🙂

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Sorry to here your issues with the Huddle Jamie... But I am not surprised... I stopped posting on there a while back and I remember your posts as constructive and I don't think they should have banned you regardless of your stance unless you were attacking people etc but the huddle has many bullies. By the way I just got this email a few minutes ago! [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] 83e554245cdca623a7e1ff1ca895090e.jpg

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

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On 6/23/2020 at 6:29 PM, ventana said:

I lasted a few weeks on huddle - was answering questions honestly on Pay and bennies - they moderated (deleted) almost every comment I made......  no more, they can have it

 

Yes I am one that believes in graduated independence.  I precept students and just hired a new grad.  o

I believe we have a responsibility to society to not endanger it - and having 1-2 years of supervised practice (supervised by a more established PA or a Doc - NOT an NP) is the way to go.  I just don't feel right with even trying to convince a policy maker that 6-7 semesters of schooling makes you independent (in spite of what nursing says)    But we should walk our own path...

I got censored for telling the Huddle mods if they thought a few PAs discussing salaries from different places across the country was a possible Title 1 (Bid Rigging) crime they needed new lawyers. 

I pop in and check headlines because I try to stay current on what is going on in the profession and with our individual peers but its rare I try to participate in the conversation anymore.

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On 6/23/2020 at 11:03 PM, Boatswain2PA said:

Ive been called quite a few names ("boomer!") for saying that if one wants to have independence....rhen go to doctor school.

 

was not trying to infer that PAF endorsed anything.

No worries. I guess I thought you were making a correlation to us since the OP was talking about the moderation at Huddle and not the general vibe.

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10 hours ago, sas5814 said:

I got censored for telling the Huddle mods if they thought a few PAs discussing salaries from different places across the country was a possible Title 1 (Bid Rigging) crime they needed new lawyers.

Hmm. So both you and the OP are constituent organization elected leaders, and nameless Huddle mods are entitled to tell you what you're allowed to say publicly?

I guess our future here is relatively secure.

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1 hour ago, rev ronin said:

Hmm. So both you and the OP are constituent organization elected leaders, and nameless Huddle mods are entitled to tell you what you're allowed to say publicly?

I guess our future here is relatively secure.

Indeed. 

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I echo many of the sentiments of the original post as well as many of the other comments that followed. I have always subscribed to PA Forum and then PhysicianAssistant.com as I had the freedom to be myself and speak my mind. I have received an easy twenty warnings and refusals to post on Huddle and it is not a place for friendly dialogue. I will post to it occasionally but they could have had a valued member had they not been so restrictive. This is the place to nest.

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On 6/25/2020 at 3:47 PM, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

No worries. I guess I thought you were making a correlation to us since the OP was talking about the moderation at Huddle and not the general vibe.

Sorry for the confusion.

This site does have it's problems though.  Threads that focus on "liberal" viewpoints are allowed uninterrupted, even when they disparage conservative viewpoints.  However as soon as there is a conservative rebuttal some mods close it down.

 

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On 6/24/2020 at 4:21 PM, Joelseff said:

Sorry to here your issues with the Huddle Jamie... But I am not surprised... I stopped posting on there a while back and I remember your posts as constructive and I don't think they should have banned you regardless of your stance unless you were attacking people etc but the huddle has many bullies. By the way I just got this email a few minutes ago! emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.png83e554245cdca623a7e1ff1ca895090e.jpg

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

I got that email too.  I left the Huddle after I tried to contact Jamie and found out he was banned.  So I banned myself from Huddle and all social media.  It was a healthy thing to do.

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I tried to ban myself from Huddle and unsubscribed to a few communities but could not find the button to unsubscribe from Members Community.  I don't think there is a way to do that until membership runs out.  Does anyone know?  I spent 30 minutes trying to figure it out.  Ugh. 

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6 hours ago, Paula said:

I tried to ban myself from Huddle and unsubscribed to a few communities but could not find the button to unsubscribe from Members Community.  I don't think there is a way to do that until membership runs out.  Does anyone know?  I spent 30 minutes trying to figure it out.  Ugh. 

If you find out how, let me know. 

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