Ask a PA Admissions Director

[paadmissions]

@mconran22 Thank you for your questions. I think you're profile looks good for programs that accept shadowing hours for their direct patient contact. Our program would be one of them. The best advice I can give it is to make sure the programs that interest you accept shadowing hours. If they don't, see what type of hours you'll need t get in addition to your shadowing. If you have good connections with the PAs you've shadowed see if maybe you can be trained on site as a medical assistant. Some states allow people to be trained on the job for medical assisting...some require a certification. Also, make sure if you're deficient in any further coursework that you're attempting to take as many as you can (especially the Biology and Chemistry requirements) at a 4 year institution. Its better preparation and can a lot of times make you more competitive. I hope this helps and best of luck!

[paadmissions]

@nostraadms I would assume that most schools have their own prerequisite GPA that is different than the science GPA listed on the CASPA application-so in essence if that's what the program does, the prerequisite GPA will vary from program to program. The science GPA for CASPA is every science course you've taken at the college level, so your Orgs will be included in that GPA. From our standpoint, our committee thinks performances especially in the upper level chemistries are important and is why we actually include them as a part of our requirements. Other programs may see it different..just depends on their philosophies. I hope this helps!

[paadmissions]

@ehnj Thank you for your questions. Believe me, we've heard a lot discussions about applicants requesting PA programs to have the same requirements, but I don't think that will happen by the time you're applying for PA school. I don't think you'll see a residency required of PAs by 2017. Since PAs are trained in all areas of medicine, which is a big attraction to the profession, a residency really isn't something that would make sense since the majority of PAs don't specialize in areas.The PA curriculum, depending on what school you're interested in, have at least a year of clinical rotations. You'll spend at least a month in different areas of medicine which may change your mind about going into surgery (family medicine, OB/GYN, emergency medicine, psych, internal medicine, etc). That being said, there are residency opportunities beyond PA school. For example, on a yearly basis I believe hospitals like John Hopkins offers a surgical residency, which is an educational opportunity after graduation. So those options are out there, but our program doesn't have many grads who explore that opportunity.

 

You'll now see PAs entering into professions that they've never been in before. For example, we had a recent grad start out in transplant surgery in Charlotte, NC--which is not somewhere many would anticipate seeing a PA. Depending on the region of the country you're in, PAs are going to be accepted/viewed differently and in different fields of medicine. NC is a very PA-friendly state with endless opportunities for them to enter in fields they've never been in before.

 

Since you are preferring to stay in the NJ/NY region I would encourage you to visit the programs to which your applying to. I do think some people limit themselves sometimes, not all the time, by their location and enroll in programs that may not be the best fit for them or the applicant may not be a good fit for that program. Your visits should help you determine that the program will meet your needs by exposing you or having the opportunities (maybe through elective rotations) to see the different areas of medicine that you've mentioned. There's nothing wrong with limiting your options in that area especially if you want to practice in that region. Like I said in my initial post, programs are in an area for reason and should be exposing you to the needs of that area. If you have a good academic profile, you have great hours and recommendations taking the required prerequisites for the schools you want to apply to is wise. Just make to visit the schools to ensure you're a good fit for the program.

 

I hope I've touched on all of your questions. If I've missed anything let me know. Good luck!

[ashmash]

So I know that a lot of applicants had previously pursued the medical school route and for some reason or other found themselves of the PA track instead.... My question is how do PA schools really view you as a candidate if you own up to having been previously pre-med and didn't quite make it or changed your mind? I want to be perfectly honest on essays and interviews but I also don't want to dig myself a hole.

[bygtymer04]

Are PA's covered under HMO's and PPO's? Thank you

[ehnj]

I'm new to this forum; I just decided that I want to apply to PA school. I started working as a surgical technologist in 2002, and decided to go back to school full-time as a pre-med in 2006. Since many allopathic schools require pre-requisites to be taken within five years of applying, I repeated the basics and put myself through four years of undergrad. I graduated with a 3.75 in Pharmacology, but chose not to apply to medical school right away; I was too financially burdened to face the expensive application process. I have volunteered on medical missions to South America and in my university hospital blood bank, I'm working as a surgical tech again, and I'm preparing to take the GRE and apply to PA school next year. I think it's a better path for me, and seems to be the future of medicine. When I started working in the OR ten years ago, the PAs I knew encouraged me to go for medical school because they weren't satisfied with their careers. Now every PA I work with (and some of those I worked with in the past) are encouraging me to go the PA route. From what I've seen, the opportunities for PAs have basically exploded in the past decade, and they are more involved hands-on with patient care than many of the physicians, and spend more time following up with patients.

 

I have a few questions about applying to PA school. First of all, I'm in NJ, and I hope to stay within the greater NYC area for family reasons. Fortunately, there are two great programs in NJ, and plenty more in NYC. It seems like applying to PA school is probably as competitive or possibly more so by the numbers than applying to medical school. I was told by my pre-med committee that I was a very competitive candidate for med school in 2010, but how much has it changed? From your perspective, is it statistically harder to get into PA school now? This leads to my next question. Most of the schools have different pre-requisites. I've fulfilled some just through college coursework for my degree, such as microbiology and biochemistry. But many schools now require A&P with a lab. I took Human Physiology alongside PA and other Master's degree students, but that wouldn't be accepted everywhere. In order to cast a wide net, I'd have to go to school part time for at least another few semesters. If, however, I focus on UMDNJ, which has the same pre-reqs as most medical schools (and offers lower tuition in-state), I don't have to invest another year or two in school, and can focus instead on working and saving money. Is that short-sighted? Is it worth focusing on one or two schools, and re-applying if necessary? I don't mind waiting to get in if necessary; I love my job, but I just want more in the future. But if it makes sense to save money and hedge my bets, I'd prefer to do so. I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts! Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions directly; it's wonderful that you're willing to help us all!

 

One last question: do you see any possibility that the pre-requisites and basic requirements for PA schools will become more standardized and uniform? The way it is now, it seems like choosing to be pre-PA is far more time-consuming than pre-med. I have plenty of friends in medical school who knocked out the basic ten (sometimes 11-12) courses by the end of sophomore year, and majored in something completely unrelated to the sciences. For a pre-PA student, it seems like it takes at least three years to satisfy all the pre-reqs. What I like about the process is that it seems to be much more focused on patient care. Many medical students don't interact with a patient until their third year, whereas all the PA programs seem to appreciate a healthcare background, whether it's volunteering for years and shadowing a PA, or working as an EMT or allied health professional. It's more valuable than presenting scientific research for any aspiring health professional that isn't more focused on the MD/PhD path. But do you think it's good that prospective students have to invest more time in pre-reqs to cast a wider net, or does standardization for admission make sense?

 

Thank you again for offering your advice! And to those who applied this year, good luck and best wishes!

[paul2834]

paadmissions, thank you for all the time and effort you've poured into this community. I would like to know your thoughts about offsetting a weaker HCE background with full-time work while taking classes. I'm a full-time computer engineer at either Apple, AMD, Google, Intel, or Microsoft (I don't want to be too specific so that I can protect my job) easily working 50 hour weeks while taking prerequisites at night until 9PM (10PM during the summer) M-TH and making all As so far with a strong undergraduate GPA (should be a 3.8 by the time I finish). The only HCE I can make time for is volunteering at the local ER. I've only been able to accumulate 150 hours so far, and I don't plan to stop anytime soon even after submitting my application. For what it's worth, I also have 60 hours of shadowing and I would do more, but I'm running out of vacation days. I also volunteer in areas outside the medical setting that I'm just as passionate about, such as being a youth mentor/counselor at my church. That's something I've been doing for years, but unfortunately, I can't consider that as HCE.

 

So given my short profile I just shared with you, in general, would an admissions committee be more forgiving over my lack of HCE seeing that I work full-time in a science heavy environment and that I'm taking and acing 8 hours worth of prerequisites per term? I know adcoms vary greatly from one school to the next, so you can think about it from the perspective of a school that doesn't have a minimum requirement on HCE hours. I'm hoping to not hear that my app would get tossed out immediately after all that I've sacrificed and toiled for.

[paadmissions]

@bygtymer04 It depends on the state and on the insurance company. Thanks!

[paadmissions]

@ashmash Thank you for your question. It's not a "turn off" to see applicants who once considered PA school. The one thing that really hurts applicants who may have been down that track and now are down the PA track is when they have the mentality that PA school is a lot easier than medical school. Yes, the time in education is significantly different, but the amount and content of material that you receive in PA school is very difficult. I'm sure you realize the rigorous demands of the PA curriculum but it's important to not convey that to any committee that PA school is easier. You do want to convey to the committee why you are more attracted to the PA profession instead of being a MD. There are differences in the profession (outside of the time in education) that draw a lot of people to being a PA and you want to be able to show that genuine desire to enter the profession. Hope this helps!

[paadmissions]

@paul2834 Thank you for your questions. If I were looking at this from a program's standpoint that does not require HCE I would probably say that you would be a competitive applicant. Your shadowing and volunteer hours should account for something even though the program doesn't require hours. My best advice would be to contact the programs that are of interest to ensure HCE is not even a part of their consideration. Rather than limiting yourself to programs that don't require hours you may also want to consider programs that accept shadowing hours to fulfill HCE hours. The best question to ask the programs is for a class profile. Usually profiles can give you averages for all selection factors, and from there you can tell if there is any preference given to applicants who have HCE or shadowing hours. Although they may not require hours there might be preference given to those who have some hours (this is just an assumption, so don't hold me to it). Hope this helps!

[paadmissions]

@ehnj I answered your previous post..just making sure I covered everything?

[meetsub]

I am a foreign medical graduate,practised medicine for 9 years but due to circumstances could not do the USMLEs. It has been 25 years since I graduated from medical school. I am trying to find out what documents I will need to apply to a PA program. I have been a resident of US for 15 years. Would be grateful for any advice. Thank you.

[ehnj]

Yes, and I'm sorry about that! It didn't look like my post had gone through, and I rephrased slightly before attempting to post again. I really appreciate that you're volunteering your time to answer all of our questions! I think you're absolutely right about visiting schools and becoming acquainted with their programs. My close friend and former roommate applied last-minute (minutes before the CASPA deadline), and only applied to four schools. The one the accepted him was a terrible fit for him, and he was miserable for the three years we roomed together; I talked him out of dropping out at least five times during his first two years. It had nothing to do with the work load or the difficulty of the program, but the general atmosphere within the department. He appreciates his education, but feels no ties to his school (unlike his undergraduate program), which is unfortunate. He's been working for a year, and loves his job, but his experience showed me how important it is to carefully research each program. I've seen the same with former classmates currently attending medical school. The key seems to be to make yourself a competitive enough applicant to have options, and visiting schools and applying early.

 

I did add one question into my revised post: what are your thoughts on how competitive PA school is becoming compared to medical school? It's hard to analyze based upon numbers, and PA programs are more interested in clinical exposure than medical schools, so the criteria are different. It just seems to me that the profession has gotten so much more attention just since I started college again in 2006, and more competitive pre-meds changed their minds and decided to go for PA by 2010. Do you find that the caliber of your admissions pool has increased? Do you think it's harder to get in now compared to five years ago?

[ehnj]

I'm sorry to ask another long-winded question, but I've read through this thread, and I noticed you mentioned taking pre-requisites at a four-year college. When I went back to school, I went to community college in NYC for financial reasons. I chose to take my chemistry and biology classes there, but not physics, because that department was not well-respected. The chemistry department, on the other hand, was phenomenal. Most of the faculty left Ivy League schools such as Columbia because the City University paid much better. Our chair came from Georgetown, and chose this community college specifically because he could make a difference. He found grants to buy a full lab, including NMR, HPLC, and even SEM. He required all faculty to take mentor at least two students each year in independent research, and we presented our research at regional and national American Chemical Society conferences. He personally taught Honors Chemistry and both Organic I & II, and hand-picked students allowed in the program. He was an intense instructor, and graded harshly. I was the top student in Orgo the year I took it (he only gave out one A in each class), and I scored in the 99% percentile on the national ACS Orgo exam at the end of the year.

 

I am by no means impressed with myself; I barely slept all year to do so well. But I was accepted by a few Ivy League schools from that CC, and chose the Honors College at a state school because I got a full scholarship. My coursework was respected by prestigious undergraduate institutions and programs. Only 30 of over 10,000 students were accepted into the Pharmacology major. Now, I'm concerned that some of my pre-reqs will be taken less seriously by PA programs since they were at a CC. I know that some community colleges are a joke, but in my experience, many are strong in certain departments. Our chem chair disappointed many summer students who failed Orgo at their respected schools by failing them again. And a few of the post-bacc students in my Orgo class were accepted into PA and allopathic MD programs.

 

How do I convey to admissions committees that this wasn't a typical community college, or at least this department had much higher standards? Can I submit a competitive MCAT score even if only the GRE is required? Or will it help that I transferred to a four-year school and did equally well in upper-level classes in a competitive science program? I personally think that CCs are a great resource for working adults in particular, as long as they're teaching at the proper caliber. Given the economy and cost of higher education, it's time that they're respected, even if that means requiring the MCAT instead of the GRE.

[E27]

Hi paadmissions,

 

Thank you so much for all of your insight throughout this thread, we all appreciate it very much!

 

One quick question:

 

1) Would you recommend utilizing secondary applications to discuss ~5 withdrawals from courses throughout my college career (none of which were due to poor grades)? Or, just leave it untouched and wait to see if admissions committees ask about it in an interview?

[tmoore17]

OK, quick summary.

I was a person that didn't take college seriously when I was in my late teens and twenties. I had a HORRIBLE GPA!!!

 

I went back to school in 2009 to finish my degree and I took 81 semester hours in 22 months. I maintained a 3.81 GPA. I was taking all my 300 and 400 level classes as well as all my prereqs for PA school. I also scored a 149/150 (approx 1060) on the GRE.

 

One school told me that I didn't get in because of health care experience, I now have about 3000 Emergency room hours under my belt.

 

Other schools comment on my cumulative GPA, that is where I am having the problem!!!

I would have to take a lot of classes to turn my GPA around.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do???

[paadmissions]

@meetsub Thank you for your questions. Every program will have different requirements and possibly exceptions for foreign medical graduates. However, I assume having your transcripts evaluated by the World Education Services (WES) is going to be a requirement for all programs. This document will verify that your medical degree is equivalent to a bachelor's degree or higher in the US. Most of the time it is equivalent to a medical degree in the US. Our program only uses that degree equivalency off the evaluation and nothing else. What that means is that all prerequisite coursework required for our program must be taken in the US regardless if you've already completed the same courses in your country. Again, this policy is in place for our program and other programs will have different requirements (i.e take 40 semester hours of course in the US). If English is your second language most programs, including ours, require that you submit TOEFL scores in addition to GRE scores (or MCAT scores if they are accepted at the programs that interest you). I'm also assuming that no advanced placement will be granted as the majority of programs will require you to complete all phases of the program regardless of your past experience.

 

It's important to contact programs to ensure you're meeting their requirements. Hope this helps!

[paadmissions]

@ehnj Thank you for your follow up. In regards to your additional questions, yes, I do think PA school is as competitive as many medical schools. I began working in PA admissions in 2006 and have noticed that our applicant pool has not only grown in numbers, but also in competitiveness. It's so competitive that we're turning down qualified applicants, which we didn't have the option to do with 250 applications (6 years ago) vs the 500 applicants we have now (and that number is probably doubled for larger or "brand name" institutions). My opinion here, but the reason I think we are very focused on clinical exposure is because PA school is so short. Having as much hands on experience prior to going into PA school rotations and clinical practice will allow applicants to have more of a comfort level working with patients and you will understand what you're getting into, rather than deciding in the first semester that you don't want to work with patients. In medical school you have at least 4 years before you start your rotations to make that decision. So I have to agree that clinical exposure is very important to not only helping you on your rotations, but it allows you to be absolutely sure that the PA profession is what you want to do. I hope this makes sense and let me know if you have any further questions!

[paadmissions]

@ehnj You are correct that some CC courses will always depend on the instructor and you were very fortunate to have the type of preparation that you did. If you're granted an interview be prepared to mention the preparation you received should they ask you about it. In my opinion, it will help that you were able to transfer and do equally as well at a 4 year institution, and if these courses that you took were within a college transfer program (which is sounds like they were) you should be ok. I would recommend if you are deficient in additional science courses for the programs you're applying to, that you attempt to take them at a four year institution. I would say a large number of applicants to our program have done some cc work, and they've been accepted and done well. So it's not that we or other programs will disregard your application, it will be better for you from this point on to do work at the university level especially since you're going back into the classroom.

[paadmissions]

@E27 Thank you for your question. If the WDs are factors that have hurt your GPA I would touch on it in the supplemental application if you feel it will help justify your situation. And I would mention it but not go on and on about it because it will be perceived as making excuses. We understand life gets in the way sometimes so a small statement about your WDs, if they hurt your GPA, may be worth it. Thanks!

[paadmissions]

@tmoore17 Thank you for your question and I commend your efforts to complete 81 hours in 22 months. Great work. That being said, have you asked the program that interest you if their program is even an option any more regardless of a strong medical core GPA? Sometimes I recommend for students to consider getting a masters degree in something else, then apply to PA school. This proves to the committee that you're able to handle graduate work and if you do well, that overall GPA should increase. If you've gone back and obtained 3000 hours of clinical experience I think that may help your case with the first program you've mentioned. I can't say that all programs weigh GPAs, GRE and health care experience the same we do so it's best to approach the different programs to see what their recommendations are.

[ehnj]

Thank you again for your detailed responses; they're very helpful! After I transferred to a four-year university, I took almost all science courses, including Physical Chem, Microbiology, Cancer Biology, a year each of Physics, Biochem, and Pharmacology (as well as Pharmacology lab, working with animals), Human Physiology (in the same class as the PA students and Physiology Master's students), Cell Biology, and probably a few more than I'm forgetting. Hopefully that, combined with the fact that I was accepted into the Honors College with 60 out of 3,000 in my class, will offset the fact that I took half of the standard pre-reqs at a community college. I'm still torn as to whether to take all of the extra pre-reqs some schools want, but if I do, I was planning to take them at the county college in my area, since it's cheaper than local four year schools by orders of magnitude, and accommodates part-time students who are working Monday through Friday. If you saw my application and transcripts without hearing what I've told you, and I wrote a fantastic essay about my experience in surgery and work on medical missions, would you grant me an interview even if I took (for example) A&P and Psychology at another community college as a post-bacc student still working in the medical field? The friend I mentioned before graduated in 2011, so it may have changed since then, but his BA was in Criminal Justice, and he took all of his science courses with me at a community college while working as an EMT, applied last minute, and got interviews at two of the four schools he applied to. I am taking the admissions process very seriously, but I'd also like to minimize the time and expense as much as possible since I'm supporting myself. Again, I'd very much appreciate your input, and I can't express how grateful I am that you're taking time to answer everyone's questions so thoroughly.

[paadmissions]

@ehnj You would more than likely be granted an interview. I do think your experience, and the fact that you're still working in a medical field, will be quality preparation although some courses were taken at the cc. My best advice to many people is to not over think the process and be confident in what you've done in the classroom and in the clinical setting; as these things have lead you to an educated decision that the PA profession is for you. There are always "kinks in the armor" meaning no application is perfect-just be confident and be yourself! You've done well so far!

[ParamedicToPa]

OK, quick summary.

I was a person that didn't take college seriously when I was in my late teens and twenties. I had a HORRIBLE GPA!!!

 

I went back to school in 2009 to finish my degree and I took 81 semester hours in 22 months. I maintained a 3.81 GPA. I was taking all my 300 and 400 level classes as well as all my prereqs for PA school. I also scored a 149/150 (approx 1060) on the GRE.

 

One school told me that I didn't get in because of health care experience, I now have about 3000 Emergency room hours under my belt.

 

Other schools comment on my cumulative GPA, that is where I am having the problem!!!

I would have to take a lot of classes to turn my GPA around.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do???

 

Sounds like my situation. How HORRIBLE was your gpa exactly? How many schools did you apply to?

[btech]

PA Admissions:

 

Hi, I am applying to PA school in a little more than a year from now. I have most of the pre-requistes completed, other than micrio bio and anat/physiology 2, which i will be taking this Fall. I am applying to Sophie Davis CCNY and SUNY Downstate. The website has a list of pre-requistes and then a list of "recommended courses" which include organic chem, genetics, biochem, histology, embryology, pharmacology and pathophysiology. I wanted to ask which 2 of these courses would you recommend I take? Which would be most useful in PA school and which would look the best? I would like to take pathophysiolgy.

 

Also, I got a W in both Chem 1 and chem 2, i retook both courses and ended up getting a B+ and an A. I know the W's don't look great, so should I take Orgo jsut to prove to them that I can handle chem classes? It is not a requirement for my programs. Personally, I enjoy bio a lot more than chem.

 

Thanks for the advice ahead of time!