Ask a PA Admissions Director

[TThielen]

paadmissions,

 

CASPA has my overall GPA as about 3.0, I had some lower grades as an 18-20 year old. I am now 33 and my last 100+ credits are in the 3.6-3.7 range. I interviewed/applied to one school last year but didn't get accepted. I have a BA in teaching PE/health with 2 yrs of teaching experience as well as substitute experience. After both teaching position being cut, I took a job as a fitness assistant at a hospital, alot of our members are former cardiac rehab patients because we share the facility with cardiac rehab, so I see how they operate and work side by side with them. I also took an addition part time position as a health educator at the same hospital. This job was part of an insurance program through the hospital. I met with hospital employees and went over their lipid panels, talked about how to improve them through a nutrition and exercise plan or any type of lifestyle modification that they could agree to follow. We also referred people to doctors due to stress, smoking cessation, etc...The adcom at the school that I interviewed at told me they thought I was a strong applicant but felt I needed more "direct patient" care. So I left my job as a health educator making in excess of $40k a year and decided to become a CNA making in the $12/hr range to fulfill my direct patient care experience. I finished with the highest grade in my CNA class and am now working as a patient care tech at a specialty hospital and my confidence working with patients directly is now ten fold. I do the basics, like turning patients, taking vitals, doing accuchecks, bladder scanning, changing wound dressings, etc....The patients we have are extremely ill and I see alot and am learning alot so I feel this has been a big bonus towards my experience. I have also decided to take some additional classes that are not part of the prereq's to give myself an even stronger app. like pathophys., medical term, etc...

My question is does this sound like I have done enough from last year to this year to be able to get accepted? Do you see anything else I can do or could have done to improve my chances? Thanks!

[chaelabob]

Thank you so much for all the information! I have a question on waiving your right to view your LOR........

 

I have already submitted my CASPA application, and I chose NOT to waive my right. I have since been told that nearly everyone waives their right and my application will probably be thrown out because it will be a "red flag".

 

My reason for not waiving was because for my first LOR I had asked my supervising Radiologist if he would write one for me, and he ended up writing it and emailing it to me before I had a chance to send him the link for electronic submission on CASPA. He of course didn't change anything before submitting, but I felt that I needed to not waive my right since I had already seen it. And since I was choosing that option for the one, I selected the same option for the others in case they ended up emailing it to me as well.

 

The second LOR was submitted without me ever seeing it, and then a copy of the third was emailed to me after submission.

 

Do you think this will hurt my application? Would it be helpful if I contacted the PA admissions dept and offered an explanation?

 

Thank you so much for your help!

[paadmissions]

@TTHielen Thank you for your question! Yes, I do feel you've taken the advice of the admissions committee in a positive way and made improvements. My take on their advice is that they wanted you to have a better understanding of patient interaction/care and to understand the role of a PA a little better. My opinion is that you've taken the necessary steps to do so. As you reapply and hopefully re-interview make sure you prepare yourself to effectively and succinctly communicate how you feel your CNA experience has better prepared you to enter the profession and how the position may have changed or educated you more on the importance of mid-level providers. The way you communicate these thoughts to the committee will be important. Hope this helps!

[paadmissions]

@chaelabob Thank you for your question. I do think it is worth contacting the programs via email to offer an explanation of why you have chosen not to waive your rights. Based on your explanation, I would assume this was an innocent mistake and I don't think it's common knowledge for applicants to know the perception that it creates to an admissions committee --it's really not talked about too much in discussions I hear on a day to day basis. I hope the programs to which you applied to accept the explanation as is, but unfortunately, if it hurts your chances for this year's cycle you'll know what to do next year. I wish you the best.

[sma1979]

Hello, i would like to introduce myself to the forum and i have a question reguarding the types of Bachelor degrees that are accepted or prefered for acceptance to a PA program. I am a 32 y/o male, i have been working as a Firefigher/ Paramedic for the past 9 years in one of Florida's busiest EMS systems, I also work part time in a local ER, and also am a Flight Medic (Air Ambulance/Comercial air). My question has to do with the types of Bachelor degrees PA programs will accept and/or prefer. I have finished my AA, and am about to begin a BAS of Public Safety program. I would like to know if this type of degree is going to be okay if i decide to apply for a PA program? All of the literature i have read just states a " Bachelor Degree", which seems very generic to me. Thanks for your time.

[Kayla2013]

How do Ws look? I have one in my 2nd semester general chemistry, and another 2 in non transferable classes. I am going to retake the Chem but am concerned if Ws look bad.

 

ETA: to add onto the LOR question would it make sense/be a good idea to have the PA write one for me now and just have it double sealed so when I was ready to mail my app I could send it in (snail mail) and won't have to worry about tracking the person down later on?

[S Brake]

I'm new to the forum and I have a question about how to make my application stick out when the time comes to apply. I have a BS in Finance and have been working in banking for the last three years. I have decided to make a career change and go to PA school. I am enrolled in classes this fall to complete the prerequisite classes. I am hoping to work part time in a physical therapy office to complete my clinical hours. I know a few PA's that I will be shadowing while I finish up pre-reqs.

 

Is there anything else I can do to be more competitive seeing as how my medical experience is probably less than my peers?

[agregory00]

I have been asked to interview with a program on the same day I have already committed to interview with another program. Is it rude to respectfully ask them if I can change my date because I am interviewing at another school on that day or is it a bad idea to even imply that I applied somewhere other than their school? Should I just asked them if they can interview me at another date because of a "previously committed engagement"?

[paadmissions]

@sma1979 Great question and is something I was hoping someone would ask. You're right, all programs really don't have a preference for a major as long as you complete your degree and prerequisite coursework requirements. I usually advised students who have not declared a major to consider a pre-med or Biology/Chemistry track, as either of these typically will help you meet prerequisite requirements within your major and w/o you having to pick up additional courses. That being said, the track you have in mind would be fine with probably any program and I would encourage you to continue this route especially if it's something that interests you. Your interest in the BAS program should not hurt your application to PA school. Just make sure you try and pick up the needed coursework requirements while you're completing your degree so financial aid loans, grants and scholarships can cover the costs of those courses. Once you complete your bachelor's degree you only qualify for student loans and are no longer eligible for federal or state grants..plus institutional scholarships are very limited after that point. Hope this helps and good luck!

[paadmissions]

@agregory00 Congratulations and what a great problem to have! I always encourage honesty when applicants communicate with programs. My opinion is, if you already committed to interviewing with the other program and have a sincere interest in attending that program, keep that interview. Contact the program who just invited you for an interview to let them know you already committed to interviewing with the the program on that day and is it possible for them to move you to a different day? I'm not sure how other programs set up their interview days, but I would hope they would give you the option of being apart of the next session. Our program, and I'm sure almost every program, understands that applicants apply to many programs and sometimes our interviews end up being on the same day. I'm a big fan of professional courtesy and expect applicants to promptly respond to our interview invitation with their concerns, like the date. I'm hopeful you contacting them would be viewed the same way. I hope this helps and best wishes on your interviews!

[paadmissions]

@kayla2013 I think as long as you are going back to retake the chemistry class I don't see a problem with seeing a withdraw on a transcript as long as it doesn't seem to be a pattern throughout the college career. Just be prepared if the admissions committee asks about withdrawing you give them the reason. I highly doubt a few Ws will hurt your application especially if you have a plan in place to replace the W in chemistry.

 

Your idea about the LOR in a sealed envelope from a PA is fine. Just make sure the individual initials the back of the envelope so they can see you didn't open it. I would probably also include a typed statement with your signature that you waive your right to this letter..just to be consistent with how your LORs are done in CASPA. This way the admissions committee knows you have not read the letter. And to be double safe, make sure the programs you're applying to are ok with this process. It would be fine for us, but others may have a different process about submitting additional LORs. Hope this helps!

[paadmissions]

@S Brake..Welcome to the forum! I would encourage you to consider maybe working in a different setting than a PT office. The only reason I strongly recommend that is because it will help you demonstrate to admissions committees that your healthcare experience (HCE) had quality time with PAs, physicians and other members of the health care team. PTs are a valuable asset to healthcare, but I don't think you'll get quality exposure to them in this setting. Although many programs, including ours, accepts PTA hours it would benefit you more, especially since this is a career change, to put yourself in a clinic or hospital setting to see these things. Shadowing will of course help balance this out some, but to help you stand out more I would recommend exploring a different setting. Maybe consider an orthopedic office since you seem to have interest in that area (I'm assuming this bc of the PT clinical setting you're in now).

I would also make sure you're completing your deficient coursework at a 4 institution as it will better prepare you for PA school and hopefully make you a more competitive applicant if you're meeting academic selection factors. I hope this helps and be sure to respond if you want!

[amberDEE]

Thank you so much for all your insight! It's been very informative. I just wanted to see how competitive you think I would be with my current stats. I have a 3.58 overall GPA with a major in Bio, and a science GPA of 3.5. I have about 1500 hours of HCE from working in a private practice, about 130 hours of shadowing various PAs/MDs. My main concern is my lack of direct patient contact. I'm 21 and just graduated in May so I haven't had the extra time to go and get a certification for some real experience. I only have about 40-50 hours of directly touching the patients (taking blood pressures, height/weight, etc.), and that is only through volunteering at the homeless shelter/local health fairs for the uninsured. Also, I am applying a bit late (submitting today). Thank you very much for your help!

[azucardulce]

Hello and thank you for your willingness to help so many of us PA hopefuls! I am a 4th year postdoc researcher in Bioengineering. I have a 3.8 pre-req gpa, a 3.44 undergrad, 3.86 grad gpa and a 3.6 "overall gpa". I have volunteered at a local clinic for 2.5 years doing various tasks including spanish translations, patient histories, and medical office management, etc. I also recently went on a mission trip where i worked as a circulating nurse and first assist with a general surgeon. In addition to research, I am a group fitness instructor. The program that I am applying to does not require healthcare-related experience, but there is a form in which those hours can be documented, and I'm sure it adds value to the application. I've already been told that having an advanced degree in a healthcare related field is a plus. I plan to count the hours of shadowing NPs, MDs, and PAs. Do you believe that there is any added value for me being a fitness instructor? Is this health-care related experience? What do you believe I can do to be a more competitive applicant?

[paadmissions]

@amberdee Thank you for your question. I would say on paper (academically) you seem competitive, but it will all depend on the programs you're applying to for me to determine if your HCE is experience is enough and at the level they're looking for. If your 1500 hours in the clinic consisted mostly of administrative duties I would have to say that may hurt your application a little. You've got plenty of time so if this year isn't an option continue to get quality hours and more real world experience during this time. Let me know if you have any further questions!

[paadmissions]

@azucardulce Thank you for your question. I don't think any program would count a fitness instructor as HCE, but I would put it on your application as part of your professional experience. That type of field typically doesn't expose you to the role of a PA the way we would prefer. Your advanced degree will be beneficial in determining your competitiveness on paper, but prepare well for your interview. The interview will solidify your acceptance into a program. Let me know if you have any further questions! Thanks!!

[kahlon]

Hi paadmissions,

 

I feel like a lot of people, on this forum topic and others, have good GPAs but are worried about HCE. I have the opposite problem. My overall GPA is just a hair under 3.0 with a science GPA only a tad higher (all Bs with one pesky C that I haven't been able to re-take yet). HCE wise, I have almost 5000 hours as an EMT and another 2000 and counting working various jobs in the hospital setting (ER tech, lift team, telemetry tech). I also have physicians who I have worked directly under willing to give me their highest recommendation. I'm just a little worried about my GPA... Do you feel that more HCE hours could possibly off set a lower GPA? Thanks!

[clballin]

Hi paadmissions,

 

I find myself in an interesting case where I have a solid gpa (3.67 science, 3.71 overall, 3.84 major, and 4.0 postbac), solid HCE through school and professionally (1260 hours as an athletic training student, and well over 1500 as a certified athletic trainer), and solid references that I would bet my life on having detailed positive statements about me. My issue is the GRE. I understand every program is different but I don't believe a 292 and 290 on 2 separate times taking the exams would help me. The thing is I have done well in math and English in undergrad ( had As in every class) but I don't feel it fairly demonstrates my ability to problem solve as an ATC.....I diagnose and treat orthopedic injuries which requires critical thinking. I go through all the steps in evaluation and rehabilitative action for that athlete or patient. I don't see how taking a standardized test truly brings out this knowledge within me. I can do the work in class for sure, but to recollect math theroms and etc. from 3 years ago isn't fair in my opinion. I'm retaking the exam of course, I just wanted to ask how I could defend myself assuming my GRE scores are still not up to par. Should I emphasize this more within my CASPA personal statement? It frustrates me that the GRE is weighted a good portion of the decision. Thanks for your time.

[MC99]

Sociology and psychology really interests me. I am on the route to get a bachelors in sociology and I was wondering if that is a good major aside from the pre-med/bio majors. If this makes a difference, I have a 4.0 in pre-reqs and I am going to take some "extra" classes that will give me more of a competitive edge such as immunology, medical ethics, and pharmolcology to show I am still strong in the sciences. Do you think that is a good plan?

[paadmissions]

@kahlon Thank you for your questions! I do commend your efforts in obtaining as many quality HCE hours as you have. Unfortunately, I don't think HCE will always offset academic performance-it depends on the competitiveness of other applicants. What I would recommend doing in your case is boosting that prerequisite/science GPA to be competitive with most applicant pools. It's very difficult to raise an overall GPA and in my opinion although you're a tad below a 3.0 overall a strong prerequisite GPA coupled with great HCE would make you more competitive. If you were applying to our program I would recommend that prereq. GPA be in the range of 3.2-3.4. If the programs you're applying to require the GRE you should attempt to meet the recommended/required score to maintain your competitiveness. You must demonstrate you're potential to be successful in the classroom. I hope this helps!

[paadmissions]

@clballin Thank you for your question and this is a common inquiry we get every year. From our standpoint, we feel there is a strong correlation with medical core GPAs and GRE scores and performance in the program and ultimately on the PANCE. We and possibly other schools have taken students below our recommended GRE scores. Some, not all, of these students have struggled academically and on the PANCE, but they're good providers. Unfortunately, with the competitiveness of the applicant pool, it really is up to programs to take students they know will have little trouble in PA school and on the national boards. That being said, no selection process is perfect and there are students who struggle the same way and have 300 or higher GRE scores.

 

I don't think it would hurt to defend yourself in your personal statement, but I wouldn't make your personal statement all about your GRE scores. You're in a great field that exposes you to working with PAs and physicians so you want to also take your HCE and be able to communicate in writing your understanding of the role of the PA. Make sure the statement is well thought out and focuses a lot on how you view PAs will help support our nation's healthcare reform, especially in primary care areas and how you feel your current skills will allow you to make a contribution to the profession and also to the programs you're applying to.

 

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but if you need further preparation for the GRE I would recommend purchasing a study book through The Princeton Review or Kaplan (just a few recommendations). I know The Princeton Review offers math and verbal boot camps in some areas of the country.

[paadmissions]

@MC99 Thank you for your question. I always tell applicants if they're in a major, other than pre-med/Bio/Chemistry, and they enjoy it...stick with it! I think as the PA profession has become much more popular in the past few years, students are sticking with majors that will be a guaranteed set up to meet prerequisites without having to bother with picking up outside classes to meet prerequisite requirements. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that and I actually recommend to to those who are undecided to take that route because of that very reason. One of the coolest things in admissions that we get to see are majors from all fields. For example, we had one applicant this year who majored in Therapeutic Landscaping (that's probably not the technical name, but close enough). You're probably thinking "What in the world is that?" Once we interviewed the applicant you can see this person really enjoyed the major and it helped them in reaching out to people in a different way...but this applicant still made it to PA school.

As long as you're picking up or planning to take prerequisite requirements in addition to your course load you should be ok. I hope this helps!

[azucardulce]

@paadmissions. Thank you very much for your reply. I think your suggestion is perfect. I will put the group fitness experience on the application but not list it as HCE.

[clballin]

@paadmissions.....thanks for the advice. I understand the idea of requiring the GRE, even if I don't feel it's completely fair for how I view myself. In any case I did buy the guide to the revised gre test by ETS. I also have been using the Internet to get free practice questions. I guess I try to do as best as I can and see what happens. My personal statement is primarily how I view the profession and my personal HCE. I never mentioned the gre, I'll leave that up to the supplemental applications if I can speak about it.

[Ultimate123]

paadmissions,

 

I graduated with a BS and MS in exercise physiology in 04' and 07' respectively. GPA was around 3.3 for each. Since then, I have ~10,000 hours HCE mostly in family practice and physical therapy. I am currently teaching health sciences in the University setting. I need to take Genetics and retake A&P (A&P was offered as a 5 hour combo when I took it and all schools want 6 hours). Other than that I have all pre-reqs and am hoping to apply next year.

1.) Do you think I can overcome the lower GPA and get to the interview stage? (I'm sure it will drop a bit with the caspa calculation.)

2.) How many other classes should I take? I figured since I need to take those 3, I might as well take a few more. Would science classes like Immunology or Pharmacology be helpful?

 

Thanks for your advice!