SERENITY NOW Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Hey gang, Any of you have experience with long term disability insurance as it applies to PAs? Specifically with regards to the own occupation portion of it that is a key part to physicians since it is specialty specific. If for whatever reason an EM doc couldn't work in EM (say, lost function in a hand), they would still be paid their disability benefit even if they could work and did work later in urgent care. I have been talking with reps and they all tell me that the specialty specific own occ would apply to PAs as well, but I've also read online that some of these insurance brokers will say anything to make the sale. What has been your experience with this? Also, there is one company in particular, northwestern mutual, that my work is affiliated with so they are offering me a discount. I've read horror stories of them online, but their rep is saying that they completely revamped their policies last year to address all of those old concerns, and now the new policies are just as strong as other insurance companies. Anybody heard if this is true or false? Last, are there companies out there that are notorious for denying claims and should generally be avoided? Thanks for any help able to offer! -SN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 5, 2020 I work as a 1099 independent contractor and purchase my own policy. it is about $200/month for $5000/month to age 67 , starting 180 days after I am unable to work as an EMPA. It would also pay my life insurance premium until age 67. If your employer does not provide one, you need this. My last several jobs as a w2 employee included short and long term, but as a 1099 I have to cover everything except malpractice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 There is generic long term disability and specialty trained. The reason that I point this out is because it is generally tailored to what you were trained for and not a type of sub-specialization. Can you work as a PA? Yes, though in a different specialty area? Won't pay. You lose your hearing, vision, extremity usage then yes, because you wouldn't be able to fulfill your area of training. Could you still work at WallyWorld as a greeter? Yes. You'd still collect on your disability because you wouldn't be able to perform those duties for which you were trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SERENITY NOW Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 @EMEDPA Thanks for the reply, E. Is your policy specific to emergency medicine? Which company did you go with? @GetMeOuttaThisMess That was what I was worried about, but I don't understand how they can bold face lie to me and say that it is specialty specific for PAs as well. Is there not any company out there who can make a specialty specific PA disability contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayamom Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I was denied by 2 disability insurance companies. Northwest Mutual was one of them. They denied me because I had plantar fasciatis many years ago. If something happens and I can no longer work I will have to apply for SSDI. Only option I have. One thing you want to look at is are they A rated meaning a good company & pay claims when they are supposed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, SERENITY NOW said: @EMEDPA Thanks for the reply, E. Is your policy specific to emergency medicine? Which company did you go with? specific to emergency medicine. state farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 25 minutes ago, SERENITY NOW said: @EMEDPA Thanks for the reply, E. Is your policy specific to emergency medicine? Which company did you go with? @GetMeOuttaThisMess That was what I was worried about, but I don't understand how they can bold face lie to me and say that it is specialty specific for PAs as well. Is there not any company out there who can make a specialty specific PA disability contract? Maybe things are different now but mine was specific about working as a PA, not as a specialty PA. I’m having trouble thinking of examples that would be specific to EM and not to other areas as well. Seizure disorder maybe where you couldn't do procedures though that would include any other surgical setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 5, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 minute ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said: Maybe things are different now but mine was specific about working as a PA, not as a specialty PA. I’m having trouble thinking of examples that would be specific to EM and not to other areas as well. Seizure disorder maybe where you couldn't do procedures though that would include any other surgical setting. loss of a hand. could not suture or intubate or do lots of other procedures like reductions, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 I think that just about anything that would disqualify you for EM would be applicable across the board, including anxiety when dealing with patients. My carrier was Massachusetts Casualty Insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 6, 2020 23 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said: I think that just about anything that would disqualify you for EM would be applicable across the board, including anxiety when dealing with patients. My carrier was Massachusetts Casualty Insurance. you could be brain dead and still do ortho, so they wouldn't cover for that....:) 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogLovingPA Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 I have a policy through Ameritas. It is occupation specific but not specialty specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted May 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2020 Guardian has mine, yes occupation specific - in a specialty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayamom Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 This is good information. Maybe need to look into the other insurance companies listed above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 I have a disability rider on my life insurance policy that is PA generic. Got it at the start of my career when I bought a house and my employer didn't offer either life or disability insurance. Rather than forking out an arm and a leg for premiums on an expensive policy, I only got enough to cover our mortgage since we don't have kids to protect and I likely wouldn't need my benefits for a while since I was young. We're investing the money that I would've been paying into an expensive policy into investment vessels instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgblumm Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I had it, never needed it and never regretted it. I would make it as specifically distinct as possible as a general PA can always get some type of job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SERENITY NOW Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just a follow up for those researching later who come across this thread. I did a deep dive, reached out to multiple brokers who all spoke with claims specialists / underwriters from the big disability insurance companies. Not one of them has in writing any specialty specific language for PAs. @ventana, this included Guardian - they also confirmed that PAs wouldn't qualify for specialty specific like physicians do. I'm sure there is a lot of confusion out there because insurance agents/brokers have frequently been telling me that it would be specialty specific for us, but when I get to the contract details and confirm with the claims specialists / underwriters, they confirm we wouldn't have it. Yet another example fueling my rising frustration with these salespeople who are either ignorantly or maliciously spouting misinformation. Our occupation is that of a general PA and the only case we could make would be if we are in a surgical specialty, our billing codes would be sufficiently different such that if you couldn't work in surgery, they might pay even if you could work in a medical specialty. But that is just a possibility and they won't put anything in writing to that effect from what I could find. All in all, this leads me to believe that long term disability insurance is not nearly as valuable to PAs as it is to physicians. If I lose function of a hand and can't work in EM, now knowing they'll just tell me to go work in sleep medicine or psych or be forced to find some other crappy job, I think this insurance is borderline worthless to me. I did still get a policy to ensure I'd be protected if I am gravely disabled, but I opted for a much lower benefit/premium because of the realization that its much less likely we'd ever be able to benefit from it than our physician counterparts who so highly recommend getting it. If anyone else over the years has went down the rabbit hole and found something in writing contrary to what I've found, please let me know! I'd go with that company in a heartbeat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 For you to qualify for LT disability payout you would have to have a significant disability which would most likely cover any area of clinical practice. Could you still get a non-medical job not impacted by your disability? Sure. Understand that you are more likely to need a disability policy than you are life insurance.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarwinStarwin Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 you could be brain dead and still do ortho, so they wouldn't cover for that....:)Joke only: (!!!)Question: what do you call two orthopods reading an ekg? ...Answer: A double blind study! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 41 minutes ago, JoannePullman said: I have a great fear of being disabled. Look, you got in a car accident, and you got disabled. What am I doing at the moment? That's it, and I have no hope, no life. That is the general purpose of disability insurance. This has been an interesting thread because I have done nothing but this for the last 32+ years. It would seem unreasonable to me if my disability company said "well you can't practice medicine but you could work at the hardware store" and denied my claim. I used STD one time when I had surgery. The hoops they made me jump through and the delays that were built into the system almost drove me insane. If I really really needed that money I'd have been homeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 On 5/5/2020 at 8:52 PM, EMEDPA said: you could be brain dead and still do ortho, so they wouldn't cover for that....:) dang...as an ortho PA I started my morning by reading this (https://www.physicianassistantforum.com/topic/61191-case-for-students/page/2/#comments). I'll just say not all the cobwebs cleared out...then to come here and read the above. Feels like shots were fired directly at my brain...but I guess I'd still be able to do ortho so it's ok! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted September 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2021 10 hours ago, mgriffiths said: dang...as an ortho PA I started my morning by reading this (https://www.physicianassistantforum.com/topic/61191-case-for-students/page/2/#comments). I'll just say not all the cobwebs cleared out...then to come here and read the above. Feels like shots were fired directly at my brain...but I guess I'd still be able to do ortho so it's ok! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 2 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said: femur got me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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