Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 28, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 28, 2020 I would grab the ppe I have been saving in my car and go to work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, EMEDPA said: I would grab the ppe I have been saving in my car and go to work. I tried to like your post but apparently I've run out of likes for today. This is how I feel, too. I suppose my desire to serve and my acceptance of my own mortality are my Achilles heel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sed said: I tried to like your post but apparently I've run out of likes for today. This is how I feel, too. I suppose my desire to serve and my acceptance of my own mortality are my Achilles heel? It's not my mortality I worry about...it's bringing it home and killing off my family. That I could not live with. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 31 minutes ago, Cideous said: It's not my mortality I worry about...it's bringing it home and killing off my family. That I could not live with. Understood. I guess it's just us childless folks and EMEDPA who have to step up if shiet REALLY hits the fan when everyone else decides not to show up... It's really an unfortunate situation we've all been put in as healthcare professionals... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 We have 2 N95 masks per clinic per 12 hour shift. We are supposed to decide among ourselves which 2 of us will be responsible for taking swabs each day. At 6:30 this morning my wife was on her way to work and a horse ran in front of her and she hit it going 70 miles an hour. Through dumb luck and modern technology she is beat all the hell up but is sitting next to me on the couch. We are all leaving this world and we don't get to pick when. I'm going to keep living and working and trying to do what is right regardless of the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, sas5814 said: We have 2 N95 masks per clinic per 12 hour shift. We are supposed to decide among ourselves which 2 of us will be responsible for taking swabs each day. At 6:30 this morning my wife was on her way to work and a horse ran in front of her and she hit it going 70 miles an hour. Through dumb luck and modern technology she is beat all the hell up but is sitting next to me on the couch. We are all leaving this world and we don't get to pick when. I'm going to keep living and working and trying to do what is right regardless of the risk. Prayers and good wishes for your wife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 On 3/26/2020 at 1:23 PM, Sed said: Unfortunately, patient abandonment is possible grounds for a malpractice lawsuit if there is necessary care to be given and one did not provide a valid reason, reasonable notification and/or covering provider. With that said, what are the implications during a pandemic? It's not the patient's fault that we're not properly protected. This would need to be discussed with a malpractice lawyer. After all, aren't we taught to apply the overhead oxygen mask to ourselves first before helping anyone around us? If there's none of us left, who will take care of these patients? Uncertain times, indeed. It's not abandonment if you didn't start working> Would calling in sick be abandonment? How would you justify working without proper PPE? I don't think a surgeon would do a case without the correct instruments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, sas5814 said: We have 2 N95 masks per clinic per 12 hour shift. We are supposed to decide among ourselves which 2 of us will be responsible for taking swabs each day. At 6:30 this morning my wife was on her way to work and a horse ran in front of her and she hit it going 70 miles an hour. Through dumb luck and modern technology she is beat all the hell up but is sitting next to me on the couch. We are all leaving this world and we don't get to pick when. I'm going to keep living and working and trying to do what is right regardless of the risk. Good god brother, I'm very sorry to see this! I am SOOOOOOOOO glad that she is still with you. Good grief....of all things....a horse. We all wish her and you the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted March 28, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Cideous said: It's not my mortality I worry about...it's bringing it home and killing off my family. That I could not live with. BINGO that is the issue, I can volunteer, but I can't volunteer my kids and wife 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 6 hours ago, CAdamsPAC said: It's not abandonment if you didn't start working> Would calling in sick be abandonment? How would you justify working without proper PPE? I don't think a surgeon would do a case without the correct instruments! I'd be interested to see what a malpractice lawyer would say constitutes abandonment in these scenarios, if applicable. If there are patients waiting to be seen and they're on your service for the day, would you be abandoning them if you didn't show up or showed up but then walked out because there aren't any masks left? Could you keep calling in "sick" until the facility got the necessary supplies? Rhetorical questions. And like I also said, it's a sad situation we're all being put in. It's not the patient's fault that their providers aren't being properly protected. How would you suggest we proceed when everyone who has a dependent decides not to show up for their shift? I have a spouse, and I don't want that person to contract anything, especially from me and something I picked up at the hospital. But I also know that my patients depend on me and I can't just not show up. These are all ethic questions that we may have to answer soon. Just because I don't have kids to protect and keep virus-free doesn't mean that I want to be working 24/7/365 because no one else will show up. And you're right about surgeons requiring instruments. Haha. Thankfully, I've had the pleasure of working with a few who were actually reasonable and worked with what they had and did it well. I think it says something when they can achieve a great result using multiple instruments. But the majority are very particular and won't proceed until they have exactly everything they say they need. Stay safe out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayamom Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 A little off topic but I have virtual worship today and will put all of us on the prayer list. I hope you all continue to be well and safe. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entpac Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 SAS - so glad to hear your wife is with you! Best wishes. I will be taking call if a resident ENT team goes down. I take my job for what it is. I would work using the one N 95 I have (for airway consults) and stay away from my family. Should this scenario come to pass, I will be living in a camper parked outside of my home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgblumm Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 As a retired PA who has seen a lot of action both as a combat medic in Vietnam, as a 911 provider at Ground Zero after 24 hours and in emergency rooms and trauma departments in NY. I am aware of the responsibilities of the military when sent to a war zone, many times without all of the needed supplies, medical equipment and munitions. A member of the military has no choice as they have taken an oath and there is the Code of Military Justice. You folks , mainly are civilians and I applaud your Hippocratic oath as well as you sense of responsibility but I think that there needs to be limitations when you have no protective equipment for yourself. The institution where you are employed, has a duty to their employees, their professionals and all their staff. If they fail to meet that responsibility than the system is broken. Today, many care, many are empathetic but do they rise up and DEMAND the equipment or THREATEN to close their facility. This is more than medical ethics, this is common sense. I applaud Dr. Smith in the NY times video on Elmhurst Hospital, in Queens, NY. She is telling the truth ,and she is afraid of discipline by way of removing her from her position, but she has an obligation to tell the truth so that patients may bypass Elmhurst and go to New York Hospital of Queens. She also has an obligation to her staff. We all need to support her and not buy into lies of the Directors of the NYS or NYC health system. You all have families and your children and your spouse did not take your oath and they are the unfortunate victims of the callous injustices of not having the proper equipment. Can your family litigate against the employers because of their inability to get equipment after you die from COVID 19. It's a moral ethical and common sense question and some of you will sound like heroes and some will say; :"I'm mad as hell and am not going to put up with it anymore." My best wishes yo you and my prayers for your safety. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 On 3/28/2020 at 7:37 AM, ventana said: honestly maybe this is the start of the decline of the mega hospitals (or I can hope) I am actually afraid that this will only feed mega hospitals. How many private practices have had to severely decrease their patient volume or even close for a short while? How long is that sustainable? I know a private practice orthopedic surgeon who has a $13k bill each pay period for his staff with almost zero surgeries and minimal clinic. What about the private family medicine practice I left 1.5 years ago? I don't know what they owe each pay period but there are 13 buildings, 14 docs, at least 20 APPs, and all of the associated support staff beyond that. How long can they close their doors? They closed for 1 week and then averaged approximately 5 patients per day (including telemedicine) for at least 2-3 weeks. They are just now getting to the point where they can see relatively normal patient volume through telemedicine with a few face-to-face visits. What about the thread on here about furloughed PAs? I have to assume that the majority are from private practice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, surgblumm said: As a retired PA who has seen a lot of action both as a combat medic in Vietnam, as a 911 provider at Ground Zero after 24 hours and in emergency rooms and trauma departments in NY. I am aware of the responsibilities of the military when sent to a war zone, many times without all of the needed supplies, medical equipment and munitions. A member of the military has no choice as they have taken an oath and there is the Code of Military Justice. You folks , mainly are civilians and I applaud your Hippocratic oath as well as you sense of responsibility but I think that there needs to be limitations when you have no protective equipment for yourself. The institution where you are employed, has a duty to their employees, their professionals and all their staff. If they fail to meet that responsibility than the system is broken. Today, many care, many are empathetic but do they rise up and DEMAND the equipment or THREATEN to close their facility. This is more than medical ethics, this is common sense. I applaud Dr. Smith in the NY times video on Elmhurst Hospital, in Queens, NY. She is telling the truth ,and she is afraid of discipline by way of removing her from her position, but she has an obligation to tell the truth so that patients may bypass Elmhurst and go to New York Hospital of Queens. She also has an obligation to her staff. We all need to support her and not buy into lies of the Directors of the NYS or NYC health system. You all have families and your children and your spouse did not take your oath and they are the unfortunate victims of the callous injustices of not having the proper equipment. Can your family litigate against the employers because of their inability to get equipment after you die from COVID 19. It's a moral ethical and common sense question and some of you will sound like heroes and some will say; :"I'm mad as hell and am not going to put up with it anymore." My best wishes yo you and my prayers for your safety. You know that Soldiers and commanders would face death to make sure that "Doc" had what was needed to save lives! I don't think the "Suits" would move with anything like the dedication that Soldiers have towards "Doc" and their injured comrades. I look back over the years and ask myself where the millions of dollars in "Disaster Preparedness" grants went to? I ask why major medical facilities and the states didn't have major stockpiles of disaster supplies? Those who by election or assignment to positions that required them to obtain and maintain adequate and appropriate supplies and equipment to permit the clinicians to render needed care must be held accountable! Maybe if the Press Ganey Scores went down the "Suits" would care more. Sunlight is a good disinfectant and it needs to be applied to the board rooms of these medical and governmental agencies. Edited March 29, 2020 by CAdamsPAC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 I was accidentally invited o a Zoom meeting of "leadership" Friday. It was to discuss our PPE shortage and how to make it last and training on proper removal of PPE. I heard multiple references to making sure this training got documented....over and over. Not once did anyone say anything about making sure we were safe or healthy or anything similar. Their focus was on making sure it got documented....you know in case there was an inspection or something. I now have a great understanding of our corporate mentality. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 21 minutes ago, sas5814 said: I was accidentally invited o a Zoom meeting of "leadership" Friday. It was to discuss our PPE shortage and how to make it last and training on proper removal of PPE. I heard multiple references to making sure this training got documented....over and over. Not once did anyone say anything about making sure we were safe or healthy or anything similar. Their focus was on making sure it got documented....you know in case there was an inspection or something. I now have a great understanding of our corporate mentality. Suits can't help but be Suits!!!! All that matters to them is money , CYA and PR. As Fernando(Billy Crystal) of SNL once said "it's better to look good than feel good" and the Suits want to look marvelous!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 23 minutes ago, sas5814 said: I now have a great understanding of our corporate mentality. In some ways I can't even blame them. That is all they are trained to focus on. But it is definitely telling when emails get sent out using the terms "customers" or "clients." More than once I have seen an email as part of a chain that someone forgot about, or someone from admin use the term...very quickly the emails just happen to disappear from our inboxes and a new one is received with the terms switched out...but, I may have learned to screenshot and forward... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Just now, mgriffiths said: In some ways I can't even blame them. That is all they are trained to focus on. But it is definitely telling when emails get sent out using the terms "customers" or "clients." More than once I have seen an email as part of a chain that someone forgot about, or someone from admin use the term...very quickly the emails just happen to disappear from our inboxes and a new one is received with the terms switched out...but, I may have learned to screenshot and forward... All suspect or potential "corporate weaseldom" emails are forwarded instantly to my personal offsite email accounts. You never know when things will disappear and claimed to never have existed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 The CEO won't care if you die a hero. Just sayin. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBanner Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 I tip my hat to people bold enough to work with a bandana or no mask at all. But that's where I'd draw the line. Yes I value my own life but I also value my family's safety perhaps even more, and what good are you doing anybody by exposing yourself, becoming ill, or becoming a disease vector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 "... grab a ziploc and fill it with leaves, poke holes in it and duct tape it to your face" Man I am laughing my butt off about the ziploc with leaves thing... Are they serious [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 We have 2 N95 masks per clinic per 12 hour shift. We are supposed to decide among ourselves which 2 of us will be responsible for taking swabs each day. At 6:30 this morning my wife was on her way to work and a horse ran in front of her and she hit it going 70 miles an hour. Through dumb luck and modern technology she is beat all the hell up but is sitting next to me on the couch. We are all leaving this world and we don't get to pick when. I'm going to keep living and working and trying to do what is right regardless of the risk.Wow that sucks... Thank God your wife is not badly hurt and hope she feels better soon.Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 On 3/28/2020 at 2:15 PM, sas5814 said: We have 2 N95 masks per clinic per 12 hour shift. We are supposed to decide among ourselves which 2 of us will be responsible for taking swabs each day. At 6:30 this morning my wife was on her way to work and a horse ran in front of her and she hit it going 70 miles an hour. Through dumb luck and modern technology she is beat all the hell up but is sitting next to me on the couch. We are all leaving this world and we don't get to pick when. I'm going to keep living and working and trying to do what is right regardless of the risk. Agreed. Keep fighting the good fight, and stay safe. We need you to hang around for a while longer. I'm glad to hear your wife is ok. Poor horse. Hopefully it wasn't someone's that got loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted March 30, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 30, 2020 "First do no harm" a motto we all should live by so you work with no PPE - you get exposed, then for 3-5 days you spread COVID like typhoid mary... this is not what I signed up for. sometimes the system has to totally fail (ie eery provider refusing to work) to get enough attention for them to immediately fix it. Really you don't think the modern manufacturing systems could not fix this in < 48 hours? Sure it would be expensive, but they could do it. They are just waiting till it is a must do..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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