LTC 526 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Woops! I know that was the original name before changing it to physician assistant but I didn't realize Yale simply never changed their name. Interesting. Thanks ONeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've been in a running conversation with my chief delegate before and after Toronto.Perhaps it's a difference in philosophy, that a delegate prioritizes the representation of the chapter members who elected them over the state's PAs as a whole. I'm sure you can see how this can potentially lead to a minority overriding the will of the majority. Maybe this is spelled out in the house bylaws, I don't know. It is spelled out in Bylaws and House standing rules, over many years, by the delegates themselves. An additional clarification, in state elections processes, only fellow AAPA members can vote on delegate elections, so chapter members, who are not fellows (prerequisite - AAPA fellow), don't get a ballot for delegate elections. Technically, it also excludes AAPA fellow members who are not chapter members (in CA, there are many more AAPA fellows that CAPA members), as there is not a reasonable or efficient way to identify these folks to get them a ballot. Also, in my personal opinion, if you are an AAPA fellow and not a member of your state or specialty organization, I'm fine with you not getting to vote in delegate elections as you are not participating in the organization that funds this process and participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've been in a running conversation with my chief delegate before and after Toronto.Perhaps it's a difference in philosophy, that a delegate prioritizes the representation of the chapter members who elected them over the state's PAs as a whole. I'm sure you can see how this can potentially lead to a minority overriding the will of the majority. Maybe this is spelled out in the house bylaws, I don't know. It is spelled out in Bylaws and House standing rules, over many years, by the delegates themselves. An additional clarification, in state elections processes, only fellow AAPA members can vote on delegate elections, so chapter members, who are not fellows (prerequisite - AAPA fellow), don't get a ballot for delegate elections. Technically, it also excludes AAPA fellow members who are not chapter members (in CA, there are many more AAPA fellows that CAPA members), as there is not a reasonable or efficient way to identify these folks to get them a ballot. Also, in my personal opinion, if you are an AAPA fellow and not a member of your state or specialty organization, I'm fine with you not getting to vote in delegate elections as you are not participating in the organization that funds this process and participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've been in a running conversation with my chief delegate before and after Toronto.Perhaps it's a difference in philosophy, that a delegate prioritizes the representation of the chapter members who elected them over the state's PAs as a whole. I'm sure you can see how this can potentially lead to a minority overriding the will of the majority. Maybe this is spelled out in the house bylaws, I don't know. It is spelled out in Bylaws and House standing rules, over many years, by the delegates themselves. An additional clarification, in state elections processes, only fellow AAPA members can vote on delegate elections, so chapter members, who are not fellows (prerequisite - AAPA fellow), don't get a ballot for delegate elections. Technically, it also excludes AAPA fellow members who are not chapter members (in CA, there are many more AAPA fellows that CAPA members), as there is not a reasonable or efficient way to identify these folks to get them a ballot. Also, in my personal opinion, if you are an AAPA fellow and not a member of your state or specialty organization, I'm fine with you not getting to vote in delegate elections as you are not participating in the organization that funds this process and participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 andersenpa the elected delegates represents the MEMBERSHIP of the PAs who belong to the state academy and to the AAPA, as such the delegates only represent the PAs who choose to participate in the process of belonging and supporting the organizations that represent the PA profession. perhaps this quote from Thomas Jefferson applies to the debate and decisions on the topic; "We are not a nation of the majority, rather a nation of the majority who choose to participate" Like I was saying, a philosophical difference. Furthermore if the BOD is passing the buck to the HOD, the why poll AAPA members and non members when state chapter members are the only ones who "matter"? The census was meant to inform the debate. A sad commentary that the delegates choose to serve their chapter members over the whole of their state's PAs. From my state chapter: [h=3]WAPA's Mission[/h]To ensure the professional growth and recognition of PAs in the healthcare team and promote excellence of patient centered care in Washington State. Sure doesn't say anything about ensuring the professional growth "of those PAs who choose to join WAPA and pay dues".... [h=3][/h] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 andersenpa the elected delegates represents the MEMBERSHIP of the PAs who belong to the state academy and to the AAPA, as such the delegates only represent the PAs who choose to participate in the process of belonging and supporting the organizations that represent the PA profession. perhaps this quote from Thomas Jefferson applies to the debate and decisions on the topic; "We are not a nation of the majority, rather a nation of the majority who choose to participate" Like I was saying, a philosophical difference. Furthermore if the BOD is passing the buck to the HOD, the why poll AAPA members and non members when state chapter members are the only ones who "matter"? The census was meant to inform the debate. A sad commentary that the delegates choose to serve their chapter members over the whole of their state's PAs. From my state chapter: [h=3]WAPA's Mission[/h]To ensure the professional growth and recognition of PAs in the healthcare team and promote excellence of patient centered care in Washington State. Sure doesn't say anything about ensuring the professional growth "of those PAs who choose to join WAPA and pay dues".... [h=3][/h] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 andersenpa the elected delegates represents the MEMBERSHIP of the PAs who belong to the state academy and to the AAPA, as such the delegates only represent the PAs who choose to participate in the process of belonging and supporting the organizations that represent the PA profession. perhaps this quote from Thomas Jefferson applies to the debate and decisions on the topic; "We are not a nation of the majority, rather a nation of the majority who choose to participate" Like I was saying, a philosophical difference. Furthermore if the BOD is passing the buck to the HOD, the why poll AAPA members and non members when state chapter members are the only ones who "matter"? The census was meant to inform the debate. A sad commentary that the delegates choose to serve their chapter members over the whole of their state's PAs. From my state chapter: [h=3]WAPA's Mission[/h]To ensure the professional growth and recognition of PAs in the healthcare team and promote excellence of patient centered care in Washington State. Sure doesn't say anything about ensuring the professional growth "of those PAs who choose to join WAPA and pay dues".... [h=3][/h] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It is spelled out in Bylaws and House standing rules, over many years, by the delegates themselves. An additional clarification, in state elections processes, only fellow AAPA members can vote on delegate elections, so chapter members, who are not fellows (prerequisite - AAPA fellow), don't get a ballot for delegate elections. Technically, it also excludes AAPA fellow members who are not chapter members (in CA, there are many more AAPA fellows that CAPA members), as there is not a reasonable or efficient way to identify these folks to get them a ballot. Also, in my personal opinion, if you are an AAPA fellow and not a member of your state or specialty organization, I'm fine with you not getting to vote in delegate elections as you are not participating in the organization that funds this process and participation. I certainly agree that you shouldn't have a say in the makings of the organization if you are not a member. Seems like good business sense for the AAPA if the states require fellow status. But this is still quite separate from the idea of what representation means to PAs in a delegate's region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It is spelled out in Bylaws and House standing rules, over many years, by the delegates themselves. An additional clarification, in state elections processes, only fellow AAPA members can vote on delegate elections, so chapter members, who are not fellows (prerequisite - AAPA fellow), don't get a ballot for delegate elections. Technically, it also excludes AAPA fellow members who are not chapter members (in CA, there are many more AAPA fellows that CAPA members), as there is not a reasonable or efficient way to identify these folks to get them a ballot. Also, in my personal opinion, if you are an AAPA fellow and not a member of your state or specialty organization, I'm fine with you not getting to vote in delegate elections as you are not participating in the organization that funds this process and participation. I certainly agree that you shouldn't have a say in the makings of the organization if you are not a member. Seems like good business sense for the AAPA if the states require fellow status. But this is still quite separate from the idea of what representation means to PAs in a delegate's region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It is spelled out in Bylaws and House standing rules, over many years, by the delegates themselves. An additional clarification, in state elections processes, only fellow AAPA members can vote on delegate elections, so chapter members, who are not fellows (prerequisite - AAPA fellow), don't get a ballot for delegate elections. Technically, it also excludes AAPA fellow members who are not chapter members (in CA, there are many more AAPA fellows that CAPA members), as there is not a reasonable or efficient way to identify these folks to get them a ballot. Also, in my personal opinion, if you are an AAPA fellow and not a member of your state or specialty organization, I'm fine with you not getting to vote in delegate elections as you are not participating in the organization that funds this process and participation. I certainly agree that you shouldn't have a say in the makings of the organization if you are not a member. Seems like good business sense for the AAPA if the states require fellow status. But this is still quite separate from the idea of what representation means to PAs in a delegate's region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I certainly agree that you shouldn't have a say in the makings of the organization if you are not a member.Seems like good business sense for the AAPA if the states require fellow status. But this is still quite separate from the idea of what representation means to PAs in a delegate's region. How so? AAPA is a legal corporation, and governed by corporations code of North Carolina. How members are "represented" is defined in the laws of the state of North Carolina, filed articles of incorporation, AAPA bylaws, and AAPA HOD standing rules, in that order. AAPA delegates are under no obligation, and have no legal duty to represent non-member PAs who happen to reside in a jurisdiction of the state or specialty organization. However, the record will reflect that delegates always reflect on what the policy decisions of the House mean to the profession. Always have and always will. Just because a decision didn't go the way in which you and I desired doesn't mean that the delegates didn't consider all issues of importance to the profession, and the members, in making decisions that they believe are in the best interests of the majority of Academy members, and the profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I certainly agree that you shouldn't have a say in the makings of the organization if you are not a member.Seems like good business sense for the AAPA if the states require fellow status. But this is still quite separate from the idea of what representation means to PAs in a delegate's region. How so? AAPA is a legal corporation, and governed by corporations code of North Carolina. How members are "represented" is defined in the laws of the state of North Carolina, filed articles of incorporation, AAPA bylaws, and AAPA HOD standing rules, in that order. AAPA delegates are under no obligation, and have no legal duty to represent non-member PAs who happen to reside in a jurisdiction of the state or specialty organization. However, the record will reflect that delegates always reflect on what the policy decisions of the House mean to the profession. Always have and always will. Just because a decision didn't go the way in which you and I desired doesn't mean that the delegates didn't consider all issues of importance to the profession, and the members, in making decisions that they believe are in the best interests of the majority of Academy members, and the profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I certainly agree that you shouldn't have a say in the makings of the organization if you are not a member.Seems like good business sense for the AAPA if the states require fellow status. But this is still quite separate from the idea of what representation means to PAs in a delegate's region. How so? AAPA is a legal corporation, and governed by corporations code of North Carolina. How members are "represented" is defined in the laws of the state of North Carolina, filed articles of incorporation, AAPA bylaws, and AAPA HOD standing rules, in that order. AAPA delegates are under no obligation, and have no legal duty to represent non-member PAs who happen to reside in a jurisdiction of the state or specialty organization. However, the record will reflect that delegates always reflect on what the policy decisions of the House mean to the profession. Always have and always will. Just because a decision didn't go the way in which you and I desired doesn't mean that the delegates didn't consider all issues of importance to the profession, and the members, in making decisions that they believe are in the best interests of the majority of Academy members, and the profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 How so? AAPA is a legal corporation, and governed by corporations code of North Carolina. How members are "represented" is defined in the laws of the state of North Carolina, filed articles of incorporation, AAPA bylaws, and AAPA HOD standing rules, in that order. AAPA delegates are under no obligation, and have no legal duty to represent non-member PAs who happen to reside in a jurisdiction of the state or specialty organization. However, the record will reflect that delegates always reflect on what the policy decisions of the House mean to the profession. Always have and always will. Just because a decision didn't go the way in which you and I desired doesn't mean that the delegates didn't consider all issues of importance to the profession, and the members, in making decisions that they believe are in the best interests of the majority of Academy members, and the profession. All PAs deserve to be represented, those who are active in their chapter, those who are mere dues paying members, and those who simply practice in the state. Again, this is just my philosophy. Obviously it goes against the rules the AAPA and state chapters have drawn for themselves. Look at the mission statements from each of our states: CAPA: The Mission of the California Academy of Physician Assistants is to represent and serve PAs statewide. As an advocate of its members for quality healthcare and for their valued, unique alliance with supervising physicians, CAPA will enhance, educate and empower physician assistants for the ultimate benefit of their patients. WAPA: To ensure the professional growth and recognition of PAs in the healthcare team and promote excellence of patient centered care in Washington State. The overriding theme is to serve the PAs of the state. The influence of a minority percentage of PAs who happen to be members could easily supplant the will and desires of the PA profession as a whole. Re: what the delegates considered is impossible for me to know. I have NO record of how my delegates voted. I have NO way to find out aside from what they may tell me, which is purely subjective. Add in the fact that this is a highly opinionized issue. There was a vocal opposition from state and academy types well before toronto. And I'm supposed to believe they didn't carry those beliefs with them to the HOD? AAPA beliefs that helped craft a highly charged and biased census survey which STILL managed a plurality win? Surely you jest. The states rejected the results of a national census and went so far as to refuse to pursue further investigation. The will of the people has been denied. The chasm between PA leadership and practicing PAs continues to widen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 How so? AAPA is a legal corporation, and governed by corporations code of North Carolina. How members are "represented" is defined in the laws of the state of North Carolina, filed articles of incorporation, AAPA bylaws, and AAPA HOD standing rules, in that order. AAPA delegates are under no obligation, and have no legal duty to represent non-member PAs who happen to reside in a jurisdiction of the state or specialty organization. However, the record will reflect that delegates always reflect on what the policy decisions of the House mean to the profession. Always have and always will. Just because a decision didn't go the way in which you and I desired doesn't mean that the delegates didn't consider all issues of importance to the profession, and the members, in making decisions that they believe are in the best interests of the majority of Academy members, and the profession. All PAs deserve to be represented, those who are active in their chapter, those who are mere dues paying members, and those who simply practice in the state. Again, this is just my philosophy. Obviously it goes against the rules the AAPA and state chapters have drawn for themselves. Look at the mission statements from each of our states: CAPA: The Mission of the California Academy of Physician Assistants is to represent and serve PAs statewide. As an advocate of its members for quality healthcare and for their valued, unique alliance with supervising physicians, CAPA will enhance, educate and empower physician assistants for the ultimate benefit of their patients. WAPA: To ensure the professional growth and recognition of PAs in the healthcare team and promote excellence of patient centered care in Washington State. The overriding theme is to serve the PAs of the state. The influence of a minority percentage of PAs who happen to be members could easily supplant the will and desires of the PA profession as a whole. Re: what the delegates considered is impossible for me to know. I have NO record of how my delegates voted. I have NO way to find out aside from what they may tell me, which is purely subjective. Add in the fact that this is a highly opinionized issue. There was a vocal opposition from state and academy types well before toronto. And I'm supposed to believe they didn't carry those beliefs with them to the HOD? AAPA beliefs that helped craft a highly charged and biased census survey which STILL managed a plurality win? Surely you jest. The states rejected the results of a national census and went so far as to refuse to pursue further investigation. The will of the people has been denied. The chasm between PA leadership and practicing PAs continues to widen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 How so? AAPA is a legal corporation, and governed by corporations code of North Carolina. How members are "represented" is defined in the laws of the state of North Carolina, filed articles of incorporation, AAPA bylaws, and AAPA HOD standing rules, in that order. AAPA delegates are under no obligation, and have no legal duty to represent non-member PAs who happen to reside in a jurisdiction of the state or specialty organization. However, the record will reflect that delegates always reflect on what the policy decisions of the House mean to the profession. Always have and always will. Just because a decision didn't go the way in which you and I desired doesn't mean that the delegates didn't consider all issues of importance to the profession, and the members, in making decisions that they believe are in the best interests of the majority of Academy members, and the profession. All PAs deserve to be represented, those who are active in their chapter, those who are mere dues paying members, and those who simply practice in the state. Again, this is just my philosophy. Obviously it goes against the rules the AAPA and state chapters have drawn for themselves. Look at the mission statements from each of our states: CAPA: The Mission of the California Academy of Physician Assistants is to represent and serve PAs statewide. As an advocate of its members for quality healthcare and for their valued, unique alliance with supervising physicians, CAPA will enhance, educate and empower physician assistants for the ultimate benefit of their patients. WAPA: To ensure the professional growth and recognition of PAs in the healthcare team and promote excellence of patient centered care in Washington State. The overriding theme is to serve the PAs of the state. The influence of a minority percentage of PAs who happen to be members could easily supplant the will and desires of the PA profession as a whole. Re: what the delegates considered is impossible for me to know. I have NO record of how my delegates voted. I have NO way to find out aside from what they may tell me, which is purely subjective. Add in the fact that this is a highly opinionized issue. There was a vocal opposition from state and academy types well before toronto. And I'm supposed to believe they didn't carry those beliefs with them to the HOD? AAPA beliefs that helped craft a highly charged and biased census survey which STILL managed a plurality win? Surely you jest. The states rejected the results of a national census and went so far as to refuse to pursue further investigation. The will of the people has been denied. The chasm between PA leadership and practicing PAs continues to widen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 The will of the people has been denied. The chasm between PA leadership and practicing PAs continues to widen. ...The will of the [Minority] of the people has been denied...... The chasm may be widening b/ ofincreasing #'s showing interest. But the democracy still works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 The will of the people has been denied. The chasm between PA leadership and practicing PAs continues to widen. ...The will of the [Minority] of the people has been denied...... The chasm may be widening b/ ofincreasing #'s showing interest. But the democracy still works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 The will of the people has been denied. The chasm between PA leadership and practicing PAs continues to widen. ...The will of the [Minority] of the people has been denied...... The chasm may be widening b/ ofincreasing #'s showing interest. But the democracy still works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 ...The will of the [Minority] of the people has been denied...... The chasm may be widening b/ ofincreasing #'s showing interest. But the democracy still works. I'm not sure where you arrive at "minority". The breakdown was Yes- 5,880 45.2% No- 4,299 33.1% Unsure/Don't Know- 2,817 21.7% If you split the unsure vote 50/50 it's a double digit margin. You need 22% of the unsure to swing in favor to reach 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 ...The will of the [Minority] of the people has been denied...... The chasm may be widening b/ ofincreasing #'s showing interest. But the democracy still works. I'm not sure where you arrive at "minority". The breakdown was Yes- 5,880 45.2% No- 4,299 33.1% Unsure/Don't Know- 2,817 21.7% If you split the unsure vote 50/50 it's a double digit margin. You need 22% of the unsure to swing in favor to reach 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 ...The will of the [Minority] of the people has been denied...... The chasm may be widening b/ ofincreasing #'s showing interest. But the democracy still works. I'm not sure where you arrive at "minority". The breakdown was Yes- 5,880 45.2% No- 4,299 33.1% Unsure/Don't Know- 2,817 21.7% If you split the unsure vote 50/50 it's a double digit margin. You need 22% of the unsure to swing in favor to reach 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Have the elected officials that ran on a platform of title change (hint: they're haven't been any prior to last week) not followed thru on their campaign promises to lobby for title change? If the HOD and any other groups aren't pushing/lobbying for change then they are doing what they were elected to. This survey you're quoting is new. Perhaps the newly elected officials will now make their voices heard. If they don't THEN you'd be able to make a valid argument. the AAPA doesn't have to do much until then... From my standpoint, the system is working, protecting what the majority has wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Have the elected officials that ran on a platform of title change (hint: they're haven't been any prior to last week) not followed thru on their campaign promises to lobby for title change? If the HOD and any other groups aren't pushing/lobbying for change then they are doing what they were elected to. This survey you're quoting is new. Perhaps the newly elected officials will now make their voices heard. If they don't THEN you'd be able to make a valid argument. the AAPA doesn't have to do much until then... From my standpoint, the system is working, protecting what the majority has wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Have the elected officials that ran on a platform of title change (hint: they're haven't been any prior to last week) not followed thru on their campaign promises to lobby for title change? If the HOD and any other groups aren't pushing/lobbying for change then they are doing what they were elected to. This survey you're quoting is new. Perhaps the newly elected officials will now make their voices heard. If they don't THEN you'd be able to make a valid argument. the AAPA doesn't have to do much until then... From my standpoint, the system is working, protecting what the majority has wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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