The Official CORONAVIRUS oh *&^! thread. Time to start stocking up on food?

[Cideous]

Utterly bizzarre how some people get a runny nose, and others are vented.  Crazy.

[EMEDPA]

1 hour ago, Cideous said:

Utterly bizzarre how some people get a runny nose, and others are vented.  Crazy.

yup. along the lines of couldn't hurt, might help:

get enough sleep

stay hydrated. with water. not booze(well, not too much...)

take your vitamins every day, especially vit C as it might help( there is a study on IV vit C right now)

don't smoke. smokers do poorly with this.

get some exercise when you can. this is not the time to get fat and sloppy. there is plenty of pizza and donuts at work right now. don't eat all of it. moderation my friends...trying to get back to my ideal body wt. I think I function better there.

if you are a dude with facial hair, shave it off for better PPE fit. I did and now look 12. When my shadow is visible there will not be 6 more weeks of covid. it's like ground hog day for viruses.

be safe, but don't be overly paranoid. If any of us get this it probably won't be from the pump at the gas station.

mental health is important. I am using one of those sleep sound apps to help get to sleep quickly now. some meditation sometimes too.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Folks need to look at the article in the Dallas Morning News about a privately owned UC organization who started COVID-19 testing without training of the staff or providing PPE.  Comments allegedly from the staff and a PA are pretty damning.  Not surprised at all with a privately owned setup (translation:  $$$ as the primary motivation).

[EMEDPA]

There is also a door to door testing scam targeting the elderly right now. for $25 bucks they wipe a qtip in your nose and take your money never to be seen again.

[EMEDPA]

So article on MSN about Germany where the fatality rate is 0.74%

Their secret? They test everyone. The more you test, the more clear the picture becomes. We are only testing the very sick, so of course our #s look bad.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-has-a-remarkably-low-coronavirus-death-rate-—-thanks-largely-to-mass-testing-but-also-culture-luck-and-an-impressive-healthcare-system/ar-BB11PpiJ?li=BBnb7Kz

[ladyluck1]

has any one in New York signed gov Cuomo's request for help that we all got in email? 

A rep called me and said it is volunteer. also asking if I can do 3, 12 hr shifts a week. again, volunteer.

What do you guys think of this?

[Cideous]

48 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

Folks need to look at the article in the Dallas Morning News about a privately owned UC organization who started COVID-19 testing without training of the staff or providing PPE.  Comments allegedly from the staff and a PA are pretty damning.  Not surprised at all with a privately owned setup (translation:  $$$ as the primary motivation).

OMG...I just read the article.  I did a phone interview with that doc/owner several years ago and I found him to be waaaaaaay over-bearing and doing stuff in his UC at the time that was far outside of the scope of UC....like ruling out MI's etc.  Obviously I declined the job.

The police were called on him by his PA who he actually threatened to kill........Read the article.  Just nuts.

 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public-health/2020/03/28/caregivers-allege-unsafe-testing-for-coronavirus-at-urgent-care-centers-north-of-dallas/

Edited March 28, 2020 by Cideous

[Cideous]

13 minutes ago, ladyluck1 said:

has any one in New York signed gov Cuomo's request for help that we all got in email? 

A rep called me and said it is volunteer. also asking if I can do 3, 12 hr shifts a week. again, volunteer.

What do you guys think of this?

They need to pay you.  

[mgriffiths]

2 hours ago, ladyluck1 said:

has any one in New York signed gov Cuomo's request for help that we all got in email? 

A rep called me and said it is volunteer. also asking if I can do 3, 12 hr shifts a week. again, volunteer.

What do you guys think of this?

no...no...no...you are a highly trained medical provider with a specific skill set.  You are being asked to put yourself and your family at risk...no.  You MUST be paid.

[rev ronin]

6 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

yup. along the lines of couldn't hurt, might help:

I'd add Vitamin D3 to the list, if you're not already taking 2000 IUs or so.  Everyone in the Pacific Northwest needs it anyways, and it has a really wide therapeutic range and some indication of protection vs. respiratory infections, so why not?

[Cideous]

57 minutes ago, rev ronin said:

I'd add Vitamin D3 to the list, if you're not already taking 2000 IUs or so.  Everyone in the Pacific Northwest needs it anyways, and it has a really wide therapeutic range and some indication of protection vs. respiratory infections, so why not?

We have been pounding Vit C at our house.  500-1000 each of us per day.  Not able to get a lot of fresh fruit so it's all we can do.

[AbeTheBabe]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:51 AM, EMEDPA said:

So article on MSN about Germany where there fatality rate is 0.74%

Their secret? They test everyone. The more you test, the more clear the picture becomes. We are only testing the very sick, so of course our #s look bad.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-has-a-remarkably-low-coronavirus-death-rate-—-thanks-largely-to-mass-testing-but-also-culture-luck-and-an-impressive-healthcare-system/ar-BB11PpiJ?li=BBnb7Kz

Even if the fatality rate is 0.74% that's one part of the picture. That's still about 2-3 times that of influenza. Plus, there is no vaccine. No one is immune. It spreads very quickly. Many people are going to need hospitalization and ventilation at one time. Lack of access will kill more people than the disease otherwise would with adequate medical care. Many old people who die in their homes or nursing homes won't even be tested and won't be included in the statistics, etc.

[EMEDPA]

On 3/28/2020 at 2:51 PM, rev ronin said:

I'd add Vitamin D3 to the list, if you're not already taking 2000 IUs or so.  Everyone in the Pacific Northwest needs it anyways, and it has a really wide therapeutic range and some indication of protection vs. respiratory infections, so why not?

already do 5000/day. red head. wear sunscreen . work indoors. yup.

On 3/28/2020 at 3:49 PM, Cideous said:

We have been pounding Vit C at our house.  500-1000 each of us per day.  Not able to get a lot of fresh fruit so it's all we can do.

2500 mg +/day, every day for probably 40 years.

[cbrsmurf]

Read an article about the scientist who did the HCQ/Zpack study.  Apparently he has a history of fabricating data/studies.  This is highly concerning given that the study design was already very poor.

 

https://forbetterscience.com/2020/03/26/chloroquine-genius-didier-raoult-to-save-the-world-from-covid-19/

[Joelseff]

Why was Rand tested if no symptoms??  So he quarantines for 2 weeks leaves his home develops a cold then what?  Why are we testing people with no symptoms???  Nightmare.  

Agreed... My daughter 2 weeks ago had a 103*F and a bad cough but no SOB.. I have an autoimmune condition and am currently on prednisone and methotrexate (trial previous immunosuopressants have failed) and have had the flu or flu like sxs 3x in teh last 4 mos. I asked her PCP to test her (Kaiser) they said no because she has no "troubling sxs" I asked for my benefit since I'm immunocompromised and offered to have my Rheumo contact them or they contact her to discuss it... They said even if they spoke to my Rheumo, they were running low on supplies so it is highly unlikely they will test her at all unless she is in distress and taken in to the ER.. My Rheumo toed the company line (she's Kaiser too) and so my daughter completed a 2 week isolation/quarantine in her room. She's better and I'm still using precautions around her.

Then I read about all the politicians, celebrities/athletes all getting tested and I'm like WTH?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[SedRate]

3 hours ago, AbeTheBabe said:

Even if the fatality rate is 0.74% that's one part of the picture. That's still about 2-3 times that of influenza. Plus, there is no vaccine. No one is immune. It spreads very quickly. Many people are going to need hospitalization and ventilation at one time. Lack of access will kill more people than the disease otherwise would with adequate medical care. Many old people who die in their homes or nursing homes won't even be tested and won't be included in the statistics, etc.

"In total, the CDC estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season, 647,000 people were hospitalized and 61,200 died. That’s fairly on par with a typical season, and well below the CDC’s 2017-2018 estimates of 48.8 million illnesses, 959,000 hospitalizations and 79,400 deaths."

"116 children died from the flu this year, compared to 183 last year."

"Until recently, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated the annual mortality burden of influenza to be 250 000 to 500 000 all-cause deaths globally; however, a 2017 study indicated a substantially higher mortality burden, at 290 000-650 000 influenza-associated deaths from respiratory causes alone, and a 2019 study estimated 99 000-200 000 deaths from lower respiratory tract infections directly caused by influenza. Here we revisit global and regional estimates of influenza mortality burden and explore mortality trends over time and geography."

And that's with a vaccine. The flu isn't some innocuous disease. Why aren't we shutting down every flu season? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5610878/2018-2019-flu-season/%3famp=true

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/

[EMSGuy1982]

11 minutes ago, Joelseff said:

Agreed... My daughter 2 weeks ago had a 103*F and a bad cough but no SOB.. I have an autoimmune condition and am currently on prednisone and methotrexate (trial previous immunosuopressants have failed) and have had the flu or flu like sxs 3x in teh last 4 mos. I asked her PCP to test her (Kaiser) they said no because she has no "troubling sxs" I asked for my benefit since I'm immunocompromised and offered to have my Rheumo contact them or they contact her to discuss it... They said even if they spoke to my Rheumo, they were running low on supplies so it is highly unlikely they will test her at all unless she is in distress and taken in to the ER.. My Rheumo toed the company line (she's Kaiser too) and so my daughter completed a 2 week isolation/quarantine in her room. She's better and I'm still using precautions around her.

Then I read about all the politicians, celebrities/athletes all getting tested and I'm like WTH?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

The ER-MD providers at the hospital district I work for have told me personally they are NOT testing unless they meet admit criteria. If they do test it is after running a biofire respiratory panel (about a $1200 test) then reflex to COVID... blows my mind. So if they are having 103-104 fever, cough and shortness of breath and a negative influenza swab and have no other underlying health conditions they are kicking them back out into the general population to mingle with the immunocompromised. I work in the UC and have been testing everyone that presents with symptoms. We have a triage line to attempt to keep the sick, potential COVID patients away from the usual allergies, orthopedic, etc complaints or “healthy sick”. Although I question if I should really be using PPE for those patients as well given they could be asymptomatic and shedding. I typically don’t test patients who are asymptomatic but have on a few who have multiple underlying disease processes going. 

frustrating. 

[cbrsmurf]

30 minutes ago, SedRate said:

"In total, the CDC estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season, 647,000 people were hospitalized and 61,200 died. That’s fairly on par with a typical season, and well below the CDC’s 2017-2018 estimates of 48.8 million illnesses, 959,000 hospitalizations and 79,400 deaths."

"116 children died from the flu this year, compared to 183 last year."

"Until recently, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated the annual mortality burden of influenza to be 250 000 to 500 000 all-cause deaths globally; however, a 2017 study indicated a substantially higher mortality burden, at 290 000-650 000 influenza-associated deaths from respiratory causes alone, and a 2019 study estimated 99 000-200 000 deaths from lower respiratory tract infections directly caused by influenza. Here we revisit global and regional estimates of influenza mortality burden and explore mortality trends over time and geography."

And that's with a vaccine. The flu isn't some innocuous disease. Why aren't we shutting down every flu season? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5610878/2018-2019-flu-season/%3famp=true

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815659/

I think you are trying to imply that we should not have a lockdown for Covid19.

 

If we didn't have a complete lockdown, models predict at least 1-2 million people dying in the US alone.  On top of that, some patients are left with permanently reduced pulmonary function (unknown percentage at this time).  

[ventana]

On 3/28/2020 at 12:00 PM, ladyluck1 said:

has any one in New York signed gov Cuomo's request for help that we all got in email? 

A rep called me and said it is volunteer. also asking if I can do 3, 12 hr shifts a week. again, volunteer.

What do you guys think of this?

HECK NO

 

yeah go volunteer for a hospital system that has made millions not supporting the needs of the staff to only be caught red handed...

 

ahhh nope

 

Will only consider it locally if > $200/hour...

[mgriffiths]

1 hour ago, SedRate said:

Why aren't we shutting down every flu season? 

I think the most accurate answer is that the flu is expected, and generally speaking we know what to expect.  There is so much that is unknown about the coronavirus and it came unexpectedly (in terms of specific agent, of course we should be expecting intermittent pandemics...it's just nature aided by human stupidity).  There are some that have questioned whether the coronavirus will become an annual illness like influenza.  If that is the case I certainly don't expect our world to shut down annually, but again we would have the opportunity to prepare.

Now, this is not to say that we should have not been more prepared.  Without engaging in politics and pointing fingers at who may be responsible, the bottom line is that we (worldwide) were caught with our pants down.  At this point I can only hope that we will learn from this and be better for it.

Lastly, every projection I have seen shows massively increased death totals if "social distancing" and "stay at home" orders were not put in place.  I ask, who are you willing to sacrifice?  There is varying value placed on the sanctity of life in our culture, but personally I believe life is important and should be protected.  What is the line for protecting life?  What cost is worth protecting some unknown number of lives? Those are philosophical questions guided by ethics and therefore there is no one answer.  Therefore, we, as the people, need to hold our politicians (and I mean ALL of them) and corporations responsible when they do things that violate our ethics.  For politics that means to vote.  I find it infuriating at how few people vote in the USA.  For corporations that can mean many things, from lobbying politicians to avoiding the corporation's products (which of course can be difficult with the centralized nature of business these days).  But, we should at least try.

[Reality Check 2]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nurses-die-doctors-fall-sick-184822765.html

This story is horrifying.

A hospital admin saying come to work - sick or not....

The same PPE for days on end....

I am still in disbelief that hospitals are willing to have medical workers die or sustain permanent lung damage for this. I don’t have a good alternate plan but the current situation is overwhelming. There doesn’t appear to be a rational solution. 

Selfish or whatever you want to label it - I am not willing to die for this.

What have we done? Will we learn anything from this? What will the legacy be?

The current estimate of fatalities is 100,000 to 200,000 - the same as  my entire childhood hometown disappearing...

Sorry - the emotional impact of this is almost too much to handle.

Please everyone - be safe.

[SedRate]

5 hours ago, cbrsmurf said:

I think you are trying to imply that we should not have a lockdown for Covid19.

 

If we didn't have a complete lockdown, models predict at least 1-2 million people dying in the US alone.  On top of that, some patients are left with permanently reduced pulmonary function (unknown percentage at this time).  

If we're going to have a lockdown, then it needs to be a lockdown. This half-assed lockdown is hurting more than helping and seems to be doing little in way of preventing transmission. America cannot function on a true lockdown, however, so this virus will not only burn thru the country but will also decimate our healthcare and economy if we continue on as we are. 

I truly do not think 1-2 million Americans will die even without a lockdown. Our communities and social system are different than most, and I believe we will fair better proportionally because of those differences. We're less dense and less socially tied to each other like other countries -- less large social gatherings for meals, less personal/intimate contact, less smoking (35% of Italian males smoke vs 15% Americans), younger population (average age 38 in US), and less public transit. The US has over 6,100 hospitals. I cannot find a quick reference for the number in Europe but I gotta assume it's less since we're a for-profit medical system. 

It will burn thru America. Workers are getting it despite PPE. (Higher total exposure?) We won't have much left to protect ourselves at a certain point because we're already exhausting our supplies and it's apparently just the beginning. So the point I keep trying to make is where do we draw the line?

[rev ronin]

4 hours ago, Reality Check 2 said:

Sorry - the emotional impact of this is almost too much to handle.

Congratulations, you're human.

Only, most humans don't even try to process death figures in that range--we just don't have the math to do it.  This leads to a lot of stupid political decisions, but that's another topic.

To even try to visualize 200,000 human lives snuffed out through gradual suffocation is emotionally devastating.

[polarbebe]

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/new-jersey-national-guard-member-is-first-coronavirus-death-in-the-military-1.624269
 

A NJ PA. 

[SedRate]

13 hours ago, mgriffiths said:

Lastly, every projection I have seen shows massively increased death totals if "social distancing" and "stay at home" orders were not put in place.  I ask, who are you willing to sacrifice?  There is varying value placed on the sanctity of life in our culture, but personally I believe life is important and should be protected.  What is the line for protecting life?  What cost is worth protecting some unknown number of lives? Those are philosophical questions guided by ethics and therefore there is no one answer. 

The real sacrifice might be those hospitalized without medical personnel to care for them because everyone stayed home to protect their own family. Or the ones left in their nursing homes. Or the suicides due to unemployment and despair. 

You're right: there is no one answer. And that has always been a major issue in the US and probably part of the problem why we're in the situation we're in. We fear death here in America. We do all that we can to protect and extend life at all costs. However, we all will die, so life can only be protected for so long before inevitably, a natural disaster, freak accident, natural death, health complication, or cost burden takes it. I do not intend to live scared. Like sas said in a post, we all do not know our time. 

Three thousand people around the world die PER DAY in car accidents, yet we do not stop driving. The hypocrisy as to what constitutes a state of emergency is what bothers me the most: an unknown virus deserves economic shutdown yet run-of-the-mill deadly causes are ignored year after year or are expected as you say, like the flu, which people continue to ignore and contribute to the spread of. 

The projections you refer to also suggest a total course of 12-18 months, especially if we drag this out in an attempt to flatten the distribution. There won't be anything left of America if we don't resume our consumerism habits soon.