Felony DUI

[austynmiller]

Hi all! I have a question for anyone out there that may have experience with this personally or know a PA that has gone through something like this. I was convicted of felony DUI Oct 2018. I have been sober since then and am doing really well in that regard. My conviction is still under review with the board in CA. I had to do 2 months jail time and I am on 5 years probation. I have been attending AA regularly and keep record of it all. My attorney says I have a good chance at probation for my license as opposed to suspension or revocation. Anyone have experience with this type of situation? I have been practicing for 8 years and have excellent letters of recommendation from previous employer. I moved to GA and am hoping to apply for my license here once CA has decided what they will do. ANY input would be helpful! Thank you!

[6oo6le]

It will always be on your records.  Don't even bother getting it expunged as it will appear on background checks.  The best thing is to own it and express what you learned from it - ensuring employers that you have matured.  

[rev ronin]

Get a lawyer.  You will probably have to enroll in some sort of substance use disorder monitoring program at the very minimum.  If you can truthfully say you haven't ever practiced in a way that risked hurting patients, I think you're going to be better off, but that's really up to the board in GA.

[hustleforthePAC]

ca law felonies show up within 7 years after 7 years it won’t show up as a felony on the ca background check 

after some time if its reduced to a misdemeanor itll be up to employer but you still gotta disclose it 

after your probation is done you might qualify to expunge 

medicare might not allow you to prescribe for a a year depending on the terms 

i do know a couple ca lawyers that could consult for you for free - their labor is costly 

just reread your post sorry i dont know GA policy was too eager to offer help feel free to message me if you want the CA lawyers info

[ohiovolffemtp]

You may well need legal representation at both the CA and GA medical boards.  Not only will each state decide whether you should have any license restrictions or whether you have to go through some sort of impaired provider program, they will also look at all actions from the other medical board.  You may be able to get some clues from reading the various medical boards online disciplinary action reports.

[Cideous]

You know what....I get it.  DUI is a terrible thing, and as the original poster mentioned turned out to be a symptom of an underlying issue which he has been actively treating for 2 years.  But FFS do we need to destroy his whole life for it?  This is why providers struggle so much with addiction and then trying to hide it.  They know that it will kill their career.  I mean if this was a repeat offender then yea, take his drivers license and make him figure out how to get back and for to work, but was he drinking on the job?  Seeing patients under the influence?  I worked with a doc who had horrible anxiety problems and took 3 Xanax a day to cope.  Granted all prescribed, but still he was technically working under the influence of a Benzo every day.  I get the harsh punishments for DUI but destroying someones ability to work, eat and pay the bills seems counterproductive and a one way ticket back to the bottle.  

[FiremedicMike]

1 hour ago, Cideous said:

You know what....I get it.  DUI is a terrible thing, and as the original poster mentioned turned out to be a symptom of an underlying issue which he has been actively treating for 2 years.  But FFS do we need to destroy his whole life for it?  This is why providers struggle so much with addiction and then trying to hide it.  They know that it will kill their career.  I mean if this was a repeat offender then yea, take his drivers license and make him figure out how to get back and for to work, but was he drinking on the job?  Seeing patients under the influence?  I worked with a doc who had horrible anxiety problems and took 3 Xanax a day to cope.  Granted all prescribed, but still he was technically working under the influence of a Benzo every day.  I get the harsh punishments for DUI but destroying someones ability to work, eat and pay the bills seems counterproductive and a one way ticket back to the bottle.  

While I'm not advocating for someone's life to be destroyed, it is pertinent to mention that it is significant for an OVI to be elevated to a felony from a misdemeanor.

[rev ronin]

3 hours ago, Cideous said:

 But FFS do we need to destroy his whole life for it?  

By "we" I assume you mean society and/or the medical boards in question?  I think the responses here have been pretty fact based and neutrally worded.  I know I've been less charitable in past threads on similar topics, but the older I get, the more I trust 'the system' (flawed as it is) work out how to respond to such occurrences.

[austynmiller]

Thank you all so much for your responses. It is such a frightening position to be in. I have openly acknowledged my substance abuse issues with the CA medical board and this is a first time offense. I have not been able to work now for over a year and even though I am applying for non PA jobs, most want you to disclose a felony conviction. It has been hard to say the least. My biggest fear in the world is that I will not get to practice again. The created my entire life around my career and the financial stability it provides. Having gone through this experience personally I can testify that the long term consequences one faces for a felony conviction are overwhelming. 

I have an attorney in CA and once CA board makes decision, I will then pursue GA licensing. Just twiddling my thumbs until then.

[Cideous]

1 hour ago, austynmiller said:

Thank you all so much for your responses. It is such a frightening position to be in. I have openly acknowledged my substance abuse issues with the CA medical board and this is a first time offense. I have not been able to work now for over a year and even though I am applying for non PA jobs, most want you to disclose a felony conviction. It has been hard to say the least. My biggest fear in the world is that I will not get to practice again. The created my entire life around my career and the financial stability it provides. Having gone through this experience personally I can testify that the long term consequences one faces for a felony conviction are overwhelming. 

I have an attorney in CA and once CA board makes decision, I will then pursue GA licensing. Just twiddling my thumbs until then.

I wish you the best of luck and congrats on the two years sober.  Good things happen when we try to do the right thing and getting sober and staying that way is doing the right thing.

[MedicinePower]

On 1/13/2020 at 10:31 PM, 6oo6le said:

 Don't even bother getting it expunged as it will appear on background checks.

This is one of the worst pieces of advice that has ever occurred in the history of advice giving. Please simply ignore it.

[6oo6le]

17 hours ago, MedicinePower said:

This is one of the worst pieces of advice that has ever occurred in the history of advice giving. Please simply ignore it.

Why would it be the worst?  It happened to me personally.  But do as you wish.  Imagine my shame when the state medical board confronted with the truth of an OVI that I had expunged - only to be told that certain careers will always show expunged records?  LOL  But yeah - go ahead and make a fool of yourself like I did.  

Edited January 16, 2020 by 6oo6le

[MedicinePower]

Just now, 6oo6le said:

Why would it be the worst?  It happened to me personally.  But do as you wish.  Imagine my shame when confronted with the truth of an OVI that I had expunged - only to be told that certain careers will always show expunged records?  LOL  But yeah - go ahead and make a fool of yourself like I did.  

Suggesting someone not take advantage of a legal provision to allow them to legally check "no" when asked about DUI conviction is an absolutely awful piece of advice. While an employer might find an arrest record and can likely use it against you a licensing board cannot. I worked for a police dept for several years and I know this system pretty well.

[6oo6le]

2 minutes ago, MedicinePower said:

Suggesting someone not take advantage of a legal provision to allow them to legally check "no" when asked about DUI conviction is an absolutely awful piece of advice. While an employer might find an arrest record and can likely use it against you a licensing board cannot. I worked for a police dept for several years and I know this system pretty well.

After my shame of "being caught," I called up the same court that expunged my record and asked them "Why should I bother getting an expungement when I was just "caught in a lie so to speak?"  The response?  "Sorry to tell you but certain career fields aren't exempt from that - teaching, legal, and medical."  But what do I know?  Just a shameful past drunk with a record caught in a "lie."  Don't take my advice.  

[6oo6le]

Forgot to mention my DUI happened over 10 years ago - not a recent FELONY conviction still on probation.  

[rev ronin]

1 hour ago, 6oo6le said:

After my shame of "being caught," I called up the same court that expunged my record and asked them "Why should I bother getting an expungement when I was just "caught in a lie so to speak?"  The response?  "Sorry to tell you but certain career fields aren't exempt from that - teaching, legal, and medical."  But what do I know?  Just a shameful past drunk with a record caught in a "lie."  Don't take my advice.  

Can we get some authoritative substantiation on this? A website with a regulation, perhaps?  I think we have a number of people talking about their own personal experiences and assumptions, which seem to be orthogonal to each other.

[MedicinePower]

5 hours ago, 6oo6le said:

After my shame of "being caught," I called up the same court that expunged my record and asked them "Why should I bother getting an expungement when I was just "caught in a lie so to speak?"  The response?  "Sorry to tell you but certain career fields aren't exempt from that - teaching, legal, and medical."  But what do I know?  Just a shameful past drunk with a record caught in a "lie."  Don't take my advice.  

I find this incredibly difficult to believe. The people who answer the phones are low level clerks and they *NEVER* offer legal advice, especially something which would be so harmful.

Edited January 16, 2020 by MedicinePower

[LKPAC]

On 1/14/2020 at 9:50 AM, FiremedicMike said:

While I'm not advocating for someone's life to be destroyed, it is pertinent to mention that it is significant for an OVI to be elevated to a felony from a misdemeanor.

This makes sense.  A first-time offender gets a felony DUI?  Are there multiple offenses?  Was there bodily injury of another person?  I wonder if we have all the facts.

[MediMike]

From CA licensing board:

Must I disclose all criminal convictions, even minor offenses in college?

You must disclose all convictions as well as all cases in which you pled guilty or nolo contendere, even if they have been expunged pursuant to Section 1203.4 of the Penal Code...Convictions that were later expunged from the record of the court or set aside pursuant to section 1203.4 of the California Penal Code or equivalent non-California law MUST be disclosed.

Applicants should be aware that the Board receives information regarding actions that have been dismissed or expunged, and the application forms advise applicants to disclose all prior convictions including those that have been dismissed or expunged. If in doubt as to whether a conviction should be disclosed, it is best to disclose the conviction on the application. Please be aware, the Board will be notified of all future criminal actions through subsequent reports from the DOJ and/or the FBI.

https://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicants/physicians_and_surgeons/

[6oo6le]

1 minute ago, MediMike said:

From CA licensing board:

Must I disclose all criminal convictions, even minor offenses in college?

You must disclose all convictions as well as all cases in which you pled guilty or nolo contendere, even if they have been expunged pursuant to Section 1203.4 of the Penal Code...Convictions that were later expunged from the record of the court or set aside pursuant to section 1203.4 of the California Penal Code or equivalent non-California law MUST be disclosed.

Applicants should be aware that the Board receives information regarding actions that have been dismissed or expunged, and the application forms advise applicants to disclose all prior convictions including those that have been dismissed or expunged. If in doubt as to whether a conviction should be disclosed, it is best to disclose the conviction on the application. Please be aware, the Board will be notified of all future criminal actions through subsequent reports from the DOJ and/or the FBI.

https://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicants/physicians_and_surgeons/

Say it again for the people in the back, please.  

[6oo6le]

Per the Georgia  Composite Medical Board:

(a) The board shall have authority to refuse to grant a license, certificate, or permit to an applicant or to discipline a person regulated under this chapter or any antecedent law upon a finding by the board that the licensee, certificate holder, or permit holder or applicant has:

(1) Failed to demonstrate the qualifications or standards for a license, certificate, or permit contained in this chapter or in the rules and regulations of the board. It shall be incumbent upon the applicant to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the board that he or she meets all requirements for the issuance of a license; and, if the board is not satisfied as to the applicant's qualifications, it shall not issue a license, certificate, or permit;

(2) Knowingly made misleading, deceptive, untrue, or fraudulent representations in the practice of a profession licensed, certified, or permitted under this chapter or in any document connected therewith, or practiced fraud or deceit or intentionally made any false statement in obtaining a license, certificate, or permit under this chapter to practice pursuant to this chapter, or made a false statement or deceptive registration with the board;

(3) Been convicted of a felony in the courts of this state or any other state, territory, country, or of the United States. As used in this paragraph, the term "conviction of a felony" shall include a conviction of an offense which if committed in this state would be deemed a felony under either state or federal law, without regard to its designation elsewhere. As used in this paragraph, the term "conviction" shall include a finding or verdict of guilt, a plea of guilty resulting in first offender status, or a plea of nolo contendere in a criminal proceeding, regardless of whether the adjudication of guilt or sentence is withheld or not entered thereon;

(4) Committed a crime involving moral turpitude, without regard to conviction; the conviction of a crime involving moral turpitude shall be evidence of the commission of such crime. As used in this paragraph, the term "conviction" shall have the meaning prescribed in paragraph (3) of this subsection. For the purpose of this chapter, a conviction or plea of guilty or of nolo contendere to a charge or indictment by either federal or state government for income tax evasion shall not be considered a crime involving moral turpitude;

(5) Had his or her license, certificate, or permit to practice pursuant to this chapter revoked, suspended, or annulled by any lawful licensing authority; or had other disciplinary action taken against him or her by any lawful licensing authority; or been denied a license by any lawful licensing authority.

Edited January 16, 2020 by 6oo6le

[FiremedicMike]

2 hours ago, LKPAC said:

This makes sense.  A first-time offender gets a felony DUI?  Are there multiple offenses?  Was there bodily injury of another person?  I wonder if we have all the facts.

In my state the only way for a first time OVI to be a felony is if there is serious bodily harm involved. 

[bovineplane]

I can't speak personally to all the details but we had a student get a dui During clinicals not long before graduation. This was a military program which meant she was removed and eventually discharged. She went on to a civilian program, finished and is now a practicing PA. 

[rev ronin]

7 hours ago, FiremedicMike said:

In my state the only way for a first time OVI to be a felony is if there is serious bodily harm involved. 

Yep.  My younger son and I were involved in an MVA 18 months ago where the guy who started the chain reaction was in a big truck and getting a field sobreity test while they were planning how to cut the driver out of the miata (or whatever it was, it was small to start with and smaller afterwards...) he hit.  Our car was two ahead of hers and still driveable, but the investigating officer followed up and interviewed us again because it became vehicular assault, a felony, once it was clear she had at least one broken bone.

[ohiovolffemtp]

From what I understand, the laws about whether a conviction must be reported even if expunged and also whether a licensing board can discover an expunged conviction vary by state.  This may be a possible cause for the differences in peoples' experiences.  So, the best answer would be to consult a lawyer experienced in these matters (likely an employment attorney or an attorney who represents people before licensing boards) in the state(s) in question.