CookiePA Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 9 hours ago, ventana said: solution make all new grad PA DMSc make one year post grad intership MADATORY and have hard standards to get a resideny program licensed offer more career counseling to the new grads in about 5 years this is what it looks like EVERY new pa is a DMSc Every new grad then goes to residency and is functionally independent day 1 after residency Every new grad from residency is told of their value and job offers start at $125k (because we are worth at least that) TADA Then the politicians realize we are truly what we are and give us fully independent practice And while I am at it, I find the pot o gold at the end of the rainbow, see a unicorn, can order VNA and sign for diabetic shoes..... Solid plan! And grandfather in the PAs with experience. Unless someone wants to pursue admin role or teach I guess getting doctorate will be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hope2PA Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 5 hours ago, ohiovolffemtp said: Multiple physician organizations, I believe about 30+, sent a letter in opposition to this. I don't believe it has actually gone into effect. I believe it was determined that each state will make decisions. Which means State organizations better get their act together and stop pandering to groups that only want to keep PA’s and NP’s at bay. The NP’s WILL achieve all goals, For those who think it is better to keep pA title, whether Assistants or Associates, you are still tying PA’s to “needing” physicians and not being viewed as potentially independent practitioners. Allow those that want to remain dependent, stay “PA”. Any one that wants more independence and equal pay like physicians and NP, get the DMSc and let those that like status quo, keep their status quo. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) On 11/27/2019 at 6:17 AM, Hope2PA said: I believe it was determined that each state will make decisions. Which means State organizations better get their act together and stop pandering to groups that only want to keep PA’s and NP’s at bay. The NP’s WILL achieve all goals, For those who think it is better to keep pA title, whether Assistants or Associates, you are still tying PA’s to “needing” physicians and not being viewed as potentially independent practitioners. Allow those that want to remain dependent, stay “PA”. Any one that wants more independence and equal pay like physicians and NP, get the DMSc and let those that like status quo, keep their status quo. So here's the thing. What you will find is that a LOT of *older* PA's want to either keep Physician Assistant or at most move to Physician Associate. Why? Because that's the way it's always been and that's the way it was...Back in my day! A few thoughts for these folks... 1. You can't pay your way through college working at McDonalds during the summer anymore and college is a shit ton more then when we went.... 2. Most Millennials and gen z's do not feel entitled, they are just pissed off at what older generations are leaving them to deal with and rightfully so. 3. "Back in my day" ideas don't work anymore in the digital age...get over it and get the blank out of the way so that our kids and grandkids have the same shot at a decent life like the ones we had. 4. Doctors have sold out their stake in healthcare and could care less what happens to us. STOP TRYING TO PLEASE THEM! 5. Nurse Practitioners are destroying us legislatively, and they are JUST WARMING UP FOLKS. I get it, you guys will retire soon so what do you care? But there is an entire generation of PA's with $125k in school loan debt that need to work so please, think of them...for once in your Boomer life.... 6. GenX'ers like us need to speak up more and support the younger PA's...Boomers in general just don't have it in their DNA to do so. I will continue to say it I guess until Rev bans me, lol, but he hasn't yet so maybe I have hope....WE ARE NOT PHYSICIANS...WE ARE NOT ASSISTANTS AND WE SURE AS HELL ARE NOT ASSOCIATES.....WE PRACTICE MEDICINE, WE ARE MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS...IF YOU NEED TO THROW IN "CARE" I AM FINE WITH THAT. MEDICAL CARE PRACTITIONERS (MCP'S) WOULD FURTHER OUR CAUSE MORE THEN ANY OTHER NAME WITH "PA" IN IT... And yes, I was yelling with all caps. Edited November 30, 2019 by Cideous 5 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANESMCR Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Cideous said: A few thoughts for these folks... Stop making so much sense!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawave Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Cideous said: So here's the thing. What you will find is that a LOT of *older* PA's want to either keep Physician Assistant or at most move to Physician Associate. Why? Because that's the way it's always been and that's the way it was...Back in my day! A few thoughts for these folks... 1. You can't pay your way through college working at McDonalds during the summer anymore and college is a shit ton more then when we went.... 2. Most Millennials and gen z's do not feel entitled, they are just pissed off at what older generations are leaving them to deal with and rightfully so. 3. "Back in my day" ideas don't work anymore in the digital age...get over it and get the blank out of the way so that our kids and grandkids have the same shot at a decent life like the ones we had. 4. Doctors have sold our their stake in healthcare and could care less what happens to us. STOP TRYING TO PLEASE THEM! 5. Nurse Practitioners are destroying us legislatively, and they are JUST WARMING UP FOLKS. I get it, you guys will retire soon so what do you care? But there is an entire generation of PA's with $125k in school loan debt that need to work so please, think of them...for once in your Boomer life.... 6. GenX'ers like us need to speak up more and support the younger PA's...Boomers in general just don't have it in their DNA to do so. I will continue to say it I guess until Rev bans me, lol, but he hasn't yet so maybe I have hope....WE ARE NOT PHYSICIANS...WE ARE NOT ASSISTANTS AND WE SURE AS HELL ARE NOT ASSOCIATES.....WE PRACTICE MEDICINE, WE ARE MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS...IF YOU NEED TO THROW IN "CARE" I AM FINE WITH THAT. MEDICAL CARE PRACTITIONERS (MCP'S) WOULD FURTHER OUR CAUSE MORE THEN ANY OTHER NAME WITH "PA" IN IT... And yes, I was yelling with all caps. LOUDER for the people in the back! Maybe the AAPA will hear you. Edited November 28, 2019 by deltawave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACali Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 19 hours ago, Hope2PA said: I believe it was determined that each state will make decisions. Which means State organizations better get their act together and stop pandering to groups that only want to keep PA’s and NP’s at bay. The NP’s WILL achieve all goals, For those who think it is better to keep pA title, whether Assistants or Associates, you are still tying PA’s to “needing” physicians and not being viewed as potentially independent practitioners. Allow those that want to remain dependent, stay “PA”. Any one that wants more independence and equal pay like physicians and NP, get the DMSc and let those that like status quo, keep their status quo. Agree. I have also encounter few PAs who loves just being an "assistant" because they believe their supervising physician will assume all the liability and that is incorrect. I work with a large ER staffing company who employ a large number of PAs. Base on the data of our legal department, PA can get sue independently. Both the PA and the physician can be name in a lawsuit at first, but the physician's name will be dropped if the PA is clearly at fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACali Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 12 hours ago, Cideous said: So here's the thing. What you will find is that a LOT of *older* PA's want to either keep Physician Assistant or at most move to Physician Associate. Why? Because that's the way it's always been and that's the way it was...Back in my day! A few thoughts for these folks... 1. You can't pay your way through college working at McDonalds during the summer anymore and college is a shit ton more then when we went.... 2. Most Millennials and gen z's do not feel entitled, they are just pissed off at what older generations are leaving them to deal with and rightfully so. 3. "Back in my day" ideas don't work anymore in the digital age...get over it and get the blank out of the way so that our kids and grandkids have the same shot at a decent life like the ones we had. 4. Doctors have sold our their stake in healthcare and could care less what happens to us. STOP TRYING TO PLEASE THEM! 5. Nurse Practitioners are destroying us legislatively, and they are JUST WARMING UP FOLKS. I get it, you guys will retire soon so what do you care? But there is an entire generation of PA's with $125k in school loan debt that need to work so please, think of them...for once in your Boomer life.... 6. GenX'ers like us need to speak up more and support the younger PA's...Boomers in general just don't have it in their DNA to do so. I will continue to say it I guess until Rev bans me, lol, but he hasn't yet so maybe I have hope....WE ARE NOT PHYSICIANS...WE ARE NOT ASSISTANTS AND WE SURE AS HELL ARE NOT ASSOCIATES.....WE PRACTICE MEDICINE, WE ARE MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS...IF YOU NEED TO THROW IN "CARE" I AM FINE WITH THAT. MEDICAL CARE PRACTITIONERS (MCP'S) WOULD FURTHER OUR CAUSE MORE THEN ANY OTHER NAME WITH "PA" IN IT... And yes, I was yelling with all caps. This is probably the best post of the year. Please keep preaching. I really believe the idea of Medical Care Practitioner came from this forum and WPP just stole it LOL. People are watching. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltawave Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 10 hours ago, PACali said: This is probably the best post of the year. Please keep preaching. I really believe the idea of Medical Care Practitioner came from this forum and WPP just stole it LOL. People are watching. It is the best of the year; perhaps the best ever. Everyone should diligently repeat it in every title change survey or questionnaire until the change is made. Easy to copy and paste; credit to Cideous: WE ARE NOT PHYSICIANS, WE ARE NOT ASSISTANTS, AND WE SURE AS HELL ARE NOT ASSOCIATES...WE PRACTICE MEDICINE, WE ARE MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS... MEDICAL CARE PRACTITIONERS (MCP'S) WOULD FURTHER OUR CAUSE MORE THAN ANY OTHER NAME WITH "PA" IN IT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Cidious, I hear where you’re coming from and feel you have a great point. Just knock off the intergenerational warfare slant. Painting any cohort with such a wide brush neither is truth nor helps build support for our cause. And you don’t know me or my DNA. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANESMCR Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 9 hours ago, UGoLong said: Cidious, I hear where you’re coming from and feel you have a great point. Just knock off the intergenerational warfare slant. Painting any cohort with such a wide brush neither is truth nor helps build support for our cause. And you don’t know me or my DNA. He doesn’t know you, nor do I. I’m sure you’re an amazing provider and advocate for younger generations. However, just as you posted on this thread, one of your colleagues posted this on another: “And, by the way, when I became a PA I knew fully that I would be licensed with physician supervision. If I wanted to be independent I would have gone to med school. I am quite fine in my position and in 21 years have never felt restrained by my position or my title. I’m sorry if others have.” The above is exactly the type of behavior/attitude that got us in the situation we are in now. So you surely see where he’s coming from. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 He doesn’t know you, nor do I. I’m sure you’re an amazing provider and advocate for younger generations. However, just as you posted on this thread, one of your colleagues posted this on another: “And, by the way, when I became a PA I knew fully that I would be licensed with physician supervision. If I wanted to be independent I would have gone to med school. I am quite fine in my position and in 21 years have never felt restrained by my position or my title. I’m sorry if others have.” The above is exactly the type of behavior/attitude that got us in the situation we are in now. So you surely see where he’s coming from. I think that I understand, but still we should be addressing the message instead of generalizing it to be the opinion of everyone of a certain age. All that does is make more enemies and, right about now, we need more friends.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, UGoLong said: I think that I understand, but still we should be addressing the message instead of generalizing it to be the opinion of everyone of a certain age. All that does is make more enemies and, right about now, we need more friends. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Call it what you like, but having been in this field for 26 years I can tell you without equivocation that it is my generation and those a little older then me that have been fighting a name change since the 90's. It is only now that NP's are lapping us legislatively that some of the older folks are *starting* to come to their senses. On average the VAST majority of PA's out for 10 years or less including those in school are 100% behind a name change, and not just adding "Associate" where "Assistant" was. These people are the future of this field, and it is high time for us to stop working to impede them with 1990 views of what a PA use to be. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Call it what you like, but having been in this field for 26 years I can tell you without equivocation that it is my generation and those a little older then me that have been fighting a name change since the 90's. It is only now that NP's are lapping us legislatively that some of the older folks are *starting* to come to their senses. On average the VAST majority of PA's out for 10 years or less including those in school are 100% behind a name change, and not just adding "Associate" where "Assistant" was. These people are the future of this field, and it is high time for us to stop working to impede them with 1990 views of what a PA use to be.That may be but you, as a 26 year veteran in the field, are living proof that age is not an automatic criterion for which side of the argument any given person is on.Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, UGoLong said: That may be but you, as a 26 year veteran in the field, are living proof that age is not an automatic criterion for which side of the argument any given person is on. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk You're exactly right. It's why I feel a responsibility to drag, nag, beg and if need be, electroshock colleagues my age into giving new pa's a fighting chance, instead of floundering in the past simply trying to run out the clock for their retirement. Edited November 29, 2019 by Cideous 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookiePA Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Loving the energy Cideous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 23 hours ago, Cideous said: You're exactly right. It's why I feel a responsibility to drag, nag, beg and if need be, electroshock colleagues my age into giving new pa's a fighting chance, instead of floundering in the past simply trying to run out the clock for their retirement. At my age, and now being retired, I might be into some EST. Maybe a quick buzz each morning to get me out of bed to the coffee. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hope2PA Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 In the past 10 years, DPT, PharmD, AuD and likely others have made changes to further their profession.(OT and SLP) Wonder how much they had to struggle with members complaining about change and wanting to stay as is. The fact is change is absolutely necessary. In Chicago physicians are loosing their jobs to NP, what makes anyone think they are safe as a dependent PA. Even if you have a great doc privately, what happens if he/she would lose license due, retire. I am in a great place and can retire, if necessary, but that doesn’t mean I should not fight for future of others. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACali Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 On 11/29/2019 at 6:24 AM, ANESMCR said: He doesn’t know you, nor do I. I’m sure you’re an amazing provider and advocate for younger generations. However, just as you posted on this thread, one of your colleagues posted this on another: “And, by the way, when I became a PA I knew fully that I would be licensed with physician supervision. If I wanted to be independent I would have gone to med school. I am quite fine in my position and in 21 years have never felt restrained by my position or my title. I’m sorry if others have.” The above is exactly the type of behavior/attitude that got us in the situation we are in now. So you surely see where he’s coming from. Agree. I laugh whenever I hear statement like that. It is like those saying "If I want to be a doctor I would just go to medical school" instead of getting other doctorate degrees. Many years ago the PA profession only requires a certificate but now a master. Today, many hospitals require their RN to get a BSN (Bachelor of Science in Nursing). Just think about that... A PA with only a certificate from a community college giving orders to a BSN, PharmD, DPT. What would a administrator think? By the way, I understand a PA with only certificate or just a Bachelor degree can be just as good as a Master trained PA. But We have to play the game, because we aren't strong enough to change the rules. Regarding independence, I already practice independently, I don't run every cases by a MD. Which means I don't need to go to medical school If I want to be independent. The original poster over simplify the issue and has no understanding of what is going on within the profession currently. What we need is a True OTP, the MDs do not want to be tide to us because many of them are employees with no addition incentives supervising PAs. Also, we have to compete with the NPs because they do not have equal amount of administrative burden like we have. This just a quick one minute simplified explanation of why we need to keep up with the time and why we need OTP. I am amazed there are still people out there who don't know what OTP is. But I going to keep on preaching just like how I preach the PA students (most of them have over $150,000 loans) to participate state or national PA organizations. For additional information about OTP please go to https://www.aapa.org/advocacy-central/optimal-team-practice/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 A cardiologist I now consult with asked if i knew of any PAs who are interested in employment. He said he'd been looking for 3 months but no serious applicants. He went on to admit that his job posting was geared toward NPs because of their lack of required oversight. He said that since a PA requires direct supervision, he preferred an NP so he didn't have to worry about leaving them alone in the office unlike a PA who would require "supervision." I took this opportunity to correct his misconception regarding PA "oversight" and what "supervision" actually entails. He was pleasantly surprised to hear this in addition to the correction of his misconception about PAs being unable to own clinics. I am still in shock when I hear about things like this. I appreciate the opportunity to spread the word about PAs and our role in medicine, but it is bothersome to know these misconceptions still exist after more than 50 years. I think a change is needed now more than ever to finally stifle these barriers to patient access and quality medical care. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Sed said: A cardiologist I now consult with asked if i knew of any PAs who are interested in employment. He said he'd been looking for 3 months but no serious applicants. He went on to admit that his job posting was geared toward NPs because of their lack of required oversight. He said that since a PA requires direct supervision, he preferred an NP so he didn't have to worry about leaving them alone in the office unlike a PA who would require "supervision." I took this opportunity to correct his misconception regarding PA "oversight" and what "supervision" actually entails. He was pleasantly surprised to hear this in addition to the correction of his misconception about PAs being unable to own clinics. I am still in shock when I hear about things like this. I appreciate the opportunity to spread the word about PAs and our role in medicine, but it is bothersome to know these misconceptions still exist after more than 50 years. I think a change is needed now more than ever to finally stifle these barriers to patient access and quality medical care. Assistants vs Practitioners I wonder where he got the idea that more supervision is required for PA's. *cough*....... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 31 minutes ago, Cideous said: Assistants vs Practitioners I wonder where he got the idea that more supervision is required for PA's. *cough*....... No kidding. I work in a state where NPs have independence, which further complicates and muddles the issue. He almost began arguing with me when I educated him on the state PA regulations. My response to him was, "I trained in this state and have worked in this state for years. Here, let me pull up the state law for you so you can see for yourself," which I did and read him the exact verbage. What would docs do without assistants? SMH... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACali Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 20 hours ago, Cideous said: Assistants vs Practitioners I wonder where he got the idea that more supervision is required for PA's. *cough*....... Same thing with Associate Vs Practitioner 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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