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How would "Medicare for All" affect the PA profession?

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No.  A wart on the ass of a 22 year old is not as worthy as the CHF of a 20 year veteran who fought in Afghanistan.

 

Period.

My daughter has had her median sternotomy scar since her first birthday. I’m pretty sure her big brother would disagree that the knee he injured when deployed in Iraq is more “worthy” than her heart condition.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Our taxes would likely double.

 

Call it taxation, or call it a premium; at the end of the day does it really matter?

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6 hours ago, medic25 said:


My daughter has had her median sternotomy scar since her first birthday. I’m pretty sure her big brother would disagree that the knee he injured when deployed in Iraq isn’t more “worthy” than her heart condition.


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I'm very sorry to hear your daughter had to endure something like that at such a young age.  I hope she is doing well.

Unfortunately that is exactly what I was referencing when I said young people have pre-exsisting conditions just like 65+ Americans do.   But according to some here, and in DC, she is not worthy of care because she had not "paid her fair share".  I would and do strongly disagree with them. I believe we have a societal responsibility to take care of little ones like your daughter that are already doing the hard work of recovery and getting healthy.  Best of luck to her.

Edited by Cideous
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Before there is a societal responsibility there is a parental responsibility. If the parents need help, charities can help.

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18 hours ago, mgriffiths said:

How can a non-medical person "review" my medical care?

A credit union is not run by non-financial people.  I'm not sure how your concern might translate to a cooperative.

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8 hours ago, rev ronin said:

A credit union is not run by non-financial people.  I'm not sure how your concern might translate to a cooperative.

The statement you specifically quoted was regarding Press Ganey scores.  My point is that just as a non-medical person is not qualified to "grade" the quality of me my medical care, how is a non-medical person able to choose their own medical coverage?  As I said, I like the idea, I just don't see how it would work.

 

Edit: fixing my written British accent

Edited by mgriffiths

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On 9/30/2019 at 6:43 AM, medic25 said:

My daughter has had her median sternotomy scar since her first birthday. I’m pretty sure her big brother would disagree that the knee he injured when deployed in Iraq is more “worthy” than her heart condition.

Of course he would, so does everyone else.

Whether it is a wart on an ass, a knee injury, CHF, or congenital heart defect...healthcare must be rationed.  How we do it is up to us.  Do we put kids at the front of the line?  Veterans?  Grandma's ICU bill?  We can make those decisions explicitly, or in the haphazard way we do it today.

Hope your daughter is doing well.

 

On 9/30/2019 at 11:30 AM, Cideous said:

But according to some here, and in DC, she is not worthy of care because she had not "paid her fair share".  

Nobody thinks that, and nobody has said that.  You're using the "REPUBLICANS WANT TO PUSH GRANDMA OFF THE CLIFF" argument..  

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On 9/29/2019 at 6:23 PM, MedicinePower said:

""Costs will go up for billionaires and go up for corporations," Warren said. "For middle-class families, costs — total costs — will go down.""

Yeah, Obama promised the same thing with the ACA.  Oh, and that we could keep our doctors.

She is a lying politician.

 

On 9/29/2019 at 6:23 PM, Cideous said:

Fear of change is a powerful force.  The thought of the health Insurance money making industry being given a foot in the ass out our healthcare system is a bridge too far for some, but like I said...it's coming and right soon.

Please do not impart any semblance of fear into my discussion. I have more than enough resources to care for myself and my family, and capitalism will always be present so I have no fear of the changes that come to healthcare.  

Government has been taking over healthcare since the 1960s.  Give it a few more years and you might be looking to give guv'ment a "foot in the ass out our healthcare system."

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8 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Yeah, Obama promised the same thing with the ACA.  Oh, and that we could keep our doctors.

She is a lying politician.

 

Please do not impart any semblance of fear into my discussion. I have more than enough resources to care for myself and my family, and capitalism will always be present so I have no fear of the changes that come to healthcare.  

Government has been taking over healthcare since the 1960s.  Give it a few more years and you might be looking to give guv'ment a "foot in the ass out our healthcare system."

Behold the death rattles of a dwindling and diminishing demographic and philosophy.....

A new medical dawn is quickly approaching 😄 

 

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10 hours ago, Cideous said:

Behold the death rattles of a dwindling and diminishing demographic and philosophy.....

A new medical dawn is quickly approaching 😄 

 

Cid, just for this, I took your Twinkie out of your lunch box and you will have to wait till your dad gets home tonight and discuss this with him.  Not all of us can be young, use the word "like" every other word in a sentence, and look like Justin Bieber.  Well, I guess I could.  Rubber-faced looking face lift, a neck jowlectomy, and air pressure blown into my gut to push my abdominal fat into my chest.

Soylent Green, baby!  And yes, I did catch the last 30" of same on television this past Saturday afternoon waiting for an actual competitive college football game to break out.

Edited by GetMeOuttaThisMess
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With the exception of a couple of devolutions into name calling this has been pretty interesting. I didn't read the thread because this discussion seems to always dwindle to name calling.

I can't even begin to fathom how a universal health care system would work. I have seen socialized medicine both in the military and in the "real world" with Medicaid. There are always problems with "free" in my observation and mostly it has to do with how people treat things that are free....like they have no value. Just about anyone who has worked in primary care has many many stories of how people treat "free" healthcare.

The original question was about how this might effect PAs. In a word we would become as valuable as you can imagine. We don't have the resources to care for everyone if suddenly everyone was covered with little to no cost to the individual. There is already a shortage of primary care providers. That would multiply in a fashion I can't even measure. There wouldn't be anywhere near enough of us to go around even assuming there were enough hard assets to carry the load (hospitals, clinics, labs etc).

I also suspect we would be making much less (along with all our other colleagues) because the rates would be adjusted for the one-size-fits-all healthcare system.

I know we are headed for something. I don't know what it might be. 

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On 10/1/2019 at 11:28 PM, Cideous said:

Behold the death rattles of a dwindling and diminishing demographic and philosophy.....

A new medical dawn is quickly approaching 😄 

 

You do understand the difference between the ACA and Medicare for All, yes? In the latter every MD/DO/PA would accept Medicare and there would be no "networks" preventing access to care.

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16 hours ago, sas5814 said:

With the exception of a couple of devolutions into name calling this has been pretty interesting. I didn't read the thread because this discussion seems to always dwindle to name calling.

I can't even begin to fathom how a universal health care system would work. I have seen socialized medicine both in the military and in the "real world" with Medicaid. There are always problems with "free" in my observation and mostly it has to do with how people treat things that are free....like they have no value. Just about anyone who has worked in primary care has many many stories of how people treat "free" healthcare.

The original question was about how this might effect PAs. In a word we would become as valuable as you can imagine. We don't have the resources to care for everyone if suddenly everyone was covered with little to no cost to the individual. There is already a shortage of primary care providers. That would multiply in a fashion I can't even measure. There wouldn't be anywhere near enough of us to go around even assuming there were enough hard assets to carry the load (hospitals, clinics, labs etc).

I also suspect we would be making much less (along with all our other colleagues) because the rates would be adjusted for the one-size-fits-all healthcare system.

I know we are headed for something. I don't know what it might be. 

 

"There wouldn't be anywhere near enough of us to go around"

So until then care must be rationed and medical insurance coverage denied to millions of people? Really?

 

"I also suspect we would be making much less "

You suspect incorrectly.

 

"Just about anyone who has worked in primary care has many many stories of how people treat "free" healthcare."

What "free" are you referring to? Everyone would still have to pay a monthly premium.

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4 hours ago, MedicinePower said:

You do understand the difference between the ACA and Medicare for All, yes? In the latter every MD/DO/PA would accept Medicare and there would be no "networks" preventing access to care.

lol I absolutely understand the difference 🙂   Medicare4all would finally give providers one place to bill.  No more surprise billing for patients, no pre-exsisting condition exclusions etc.  

Edited by Cideous

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1 hour ago, Cideous said:

Medicare4all would finally give providers one place to bill.

Which means only one place that pays us.

What do we do if they decide to cut our pay?

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13 hours ago, MedicinePower said:

 

"There wouldn't be anywhere near enough of us to go around"

So until then care must be rationed and medical insurance coverage denied to millions of people? Really?

"I also suspect we would be making much less "

You suspect incorrectly.

 

"Just about anyone who has worked in primary care has many many stories of how people treat "free" healthcare."

What "free" are you referring to? Everyone would still have to pay a monthly premium.

I don't think I said anything about continuing to ration care and coverage. You need to wipe the foam off your mouth and put down the axe you are grinding. You have a perspective but it is getting lost in the hysteria.

I suspect we would be making less. You say absolutely not. Prove it. You seem absolutely 100% sure. I say there would be 2 aspects to this...making services available and controlling costs. Our salaries would absolutely be one of the biggest expenses considered. How it would come out I can't be sure. You on the other hand are totally sure.

Everyone isn't paying a monthly premium for Medicaid. Are you telling me they would suddenly have to start paying? Are you telling me EVERYONE who suddenly had coverage would be paying a premium? Iff everyone pays a premium how would it be determined? By your income? By the number of covered members in your family? If you get you, your spouse, and all 9 of your children covered for $10/month it is still functionally free. Things with no cost have no value and get treated that way.

 Again you make a lot of assumptions, state them as fact, and then sit back and cross your arms. Given there has been no complete end to end plan proposed and then rolled out, adjusted based on results and the laws of unintended consequences, nobody knows. The difference is I offer a simple opinion and you make factual statements without any means of proving them. Shouting it louder doesn't make it true.

This is part of the problem with the whole conversation is extreme opinions mostly backed by passion and dogmatic belief. I'd love to see everyone have coverage. Concerns about the costs being dismissed as foolish is just being dogmatic. I have never seen a good idea the government couldn't screw up.

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7 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Which means only one place that pays us.

What do we do if they decide to cut our pay?

Boats he just told me I was wrong when I said they could cut our pay. I'm just waiting for some thoughtful,reasoned eveidence. There isn't any because there can't be. This is barely a concept much less a multibillion dollar national program. There can only be speculation at this point.

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On 10/2/2019 at 11:33 AM, sas5814 said:

With the exception of a couple of devolutions into name calling this has been pretty interesting. I didn't read the thread because this discussion seems to always dwindle to name calling.

I can't even begin to fathom how a universal health care system would work. I have seen socialized medicine both in the military and in the "real world" with Medicaid. There are always problems with "free" in my observation and mostly it has to do with how people treat things that are free....like they have no value. Just about anyone who has worked in primary care has many many stories of how people treat "free" healthcare.

The original question was about how this might effect PAs. In a word we would become as valuable as you can imagine. We don't have the resources to care for everyone if suddenly everyone was covered with little to no cost to the individual. There is already a shortage of primary care providers. That would multiply in a fashion I can't even measure. There wouldn't be anywhere near enough of us to go around even assuming there were enough hard assets to carry the load (hospitals, clinics, labs etc).

I also suspect we would be making much less (along with all our other colleagues) because the rates would be adjusted for the one-size-fits-all healthcare system.

I know we are headed for something. I don't know what it might be. 

Thank you for actually answering the question! 🙌

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There is plenty of information here for someone to write a great article, do a research project, call upon AAPA or NCCPA to respond intelligently to the question. Great question for all practicing PAs except I don't see it happening.

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