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Tuition is $800 per credit hour for a total of $40,000 for 50 credit hours. Students are billed per semester based on the number of credit hours they are taking. Textbooks are available online and part of your tuition.

 

 

$40K

 

Nope no way that one will survive 

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Tuition is $800 per credit hour for a total of $40,000 for 50 credit hours. Students are billed per semester based on the number of credit hours they are taking. Textbooks are available online and part of your tuition.  

 

$40K

 

Nope no way that one will survive 

 

Lincoln is around that price. Lynchburg is 25k, and ATSU is about 30k. Cost is less but I think Butler's and Lincoln's curricula *looks* more robust from a medical/science aspect and look to add more to PA clinical education. 

 

I am still considering a DMS from lincoln but this one is in the running.

I did not like Lynchburg's curriculum and thought it had a lot of fluff classes... Same with ATSU, and I actually liked their masters program (I got my masters there) because of the clinical focus but their DMSc program looks like the others with non clinical classes that I have no use for.

 

I suppose if you want a "quick and dirty" Doctorate (no judgment here) then Lynchburg and others might be the way. But *For Me* I would like my doctorate to add to my clinical knowledge.

 

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Spoke with ATSU at CAPA conference and they are trying to make a more clinically focused DMSc program...not sure how it will play out...

 

As far as Cideous' question about how this helps PAs as a profession or individually, well as for the profession, the argument stands that all other providers at our level are at doctorate levels (not saying I condone this but this IS the reality now).

 

For individual PAs, the curriculum of the clinically focused ones seems to try to add on to our PA medical education. One can argue we don't need it but I would not presume to say that about every PA. I feel that there is still a whole hell of a lot more I can learn from a medical standpoint to make me a BETTER provider. To each their own.

 

 

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If the argument to obtain a doctorate is to "keep up with Jones" and get a seat at the table, then we better change our name to go along with it.

Writing off the cuff here, but would the creation of a doctorate program designed for PAs focused on clinical and healthcare management/leadership be worthwhile? It would A) give us PhD level training, and B) help move PAs into administrative roles. Does this already exist?

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The reality is doctorate program sooner or later will be standardized just like how Master's program is nowadays. Other programs (NPs) will inevitably push us PAs into keeping up with them. There are still programs now without masters degree. 

CRNAs/NPs all are mandatory doctorate program (2020). Even Pharmacist, PT, OT or dietary have their doctorate degree. It's not about keeping up that IF they do it WE MUST do it, but one day administration will look at PA who are in charge of these other staffs that has a doctorate degree while we only have a bachelors degree. I see jobs now with Masters degree requirement. 

I to would like one day the doctorate program can transit to  some sort of bridge to med school but, we all know this would never happen. This effort will be even harder, since more and more of these doctorate programs will be more abundant. These doctorate programs are simply rolling out as degree creep.

I think we have to do what's best and try to push to progress better. IE: name change, autonomy, and etc. It only took us like 50 years to change PANRE from 6 years to now 10 years.

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6 hours ago, dream2pa said:

How was your experience ?is it more clinically focused ? any weekly test like PA school ? 

 

I am looking for more clinically focused program. I can't do paper appraisal 😞

Weekly quizzes in all classes. It is definitely more clinically focused.

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On 12/10/2020 at 10:11 PM, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

Weekly quizzes in all classes. It is definitely more clinically focused.

Many papers to write?

 

I did some additional searches after my last post. I believe the inaugural class has yet to graduate.

I am eye-balling this as an option as well as just packing it in back to Medical School as there are some options for PAs out there for that route. The only way to go is up and Doctor vs Doctorate seems like a choice I'll need to make soon.

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10 minutes ago, deltawave said:

Many papers to write?

 

I did some additional searches after my last post. I believe the inaugural class has yet to graduate.

I am eye-balling this as an option as well as just packing it in back to Medical School as there are some options for PAs out there for that route. The only way to go is up and Doctor vs Doctorate seems like a choice I'll need to make soon.

If you can.... Go get your MD/DO... 

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7 hours ago, deltawave said:

Many papers to write?

 

I did some additional searches after my last post. I believe the inaugural class has yet to graduate.

I am eye-balling this as an option as well as just packing it in back to Medical School as there are some options for PAs out there for that route. The only way to go is up and Doctor vs Doctorate seems like a choice I'll need to make soon.

Very few. None in the clinical classes. I did have to write one for geriatrics, which was quasi-clinical.
 

I also suggest medical school if not to arduous for your life. Not that I think it provides this hidden unavailable knowledge, but it provides access to excellent residencies, where real learning occurs, and then your assumed to be the cream of the crop wherever you go until proven otherwise, rather than the opposite having to prove yourself over and over again with every new person.

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11 hours ago, deltawave said:

 

I am eye-balling this as an option as well as just packing it in back to Medical School as there are some options for PAs out there for that route. The only way to go is up and Doctor vs Doctorate seems like a choice I'll need to make soon.

Lecom APAP is the only legit one as far as I know. Let me know if you know of other legit programs, which are US based. Avoid Caribbean programs as matching to a US residency is far from assured.

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5 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

Avoid Caribbean programs as matching to a US residency is far from assured.

While this is certainly true, I would think that U.S.-trained PAs would have a lot better chance coming out of a Caribbean program than J. Random Rich-Kid-Who-Can't-Pass-the-MCAT. Still, I would think that those PAs would be quite competitive for domestic programs, especially DO programs, in the first place, relative to their GPA/scores.

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16 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

...rather than the opposite having to prove yourself over and over again with every new person.

This is a highly motivating factor. Considering I would want to be an EM physician if I went that route.

When I was an aspiring pre-PA medic all I ever wanted to be was a PA in the ER, but I have come to realize the many intricacies about that type of career for a PA in the current climate.

As far as physician training goes- no, Carib schools are not on my list of options. The advice is appreciated, however.

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16 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

Very few. None in the clinical classes. I did have to write one for geriatrics, which was quasi-clinical.
 

Sorry for the de-rail on the thread.

I like the fact that it is more clinically directed than administrative or fluff.

Thank you for the information.

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10 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

Some Carib programs are better than others. Grenada probably has the best rep, but would still do a US DO program over ANY carib MD program.

Carib big 4

SABA

Ross

AUC

St. George

None of which are as competitive as any US DO school like you said. 

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I can't help but think these Doctorate in medical science programs are just money-sinkers. Realistically speaking, it does nothing in the day to day medical practice. Sure you have more knowledge, but it's at a awkward spot where you're a PA, but not a physician.

In the end, we're still a PA, and I dont see this extra degree helping with our salary, or scope of practice.

I really wish there are better PA-MD/DO bridge programs. Something that is shorter than 3 years considering that there are already 3 year medical schools, and considering how 4th year med school is already a joke anyway (depending on the rotation and residency travels).

Even if it was 2.5 years, I'd probably do it in a heartbeat.

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48 minutes ago, wktk222 said:

I can't help but think these Doctorate in medical science programs are just money-sinkers. Realistically speaking, it does nothing in the day to day medical practice. Sure you have more knowledge, but it's at a awkward spot where you're a PA, but not a physician.

In the end, we're still a PA, and I dont see this extra degree helping with our salary, or scope of practice.

I really wish there are better PA-MD/DO bridge programs. Something that is shorter than 3 years considering that there are already 3 year medical schools, and considering how 4th year med school is already a joke anyway (depending on the rotation and residency travels).

Even if it was 2.5 years, I'd probably do it in a heartbeat.

Many salary surveys have show those with a doctorate do have higher salary. I know there are many confounders and variables, but it’s something.

Getting a doctorate didn’t help NPs either, until they started showing up to the legislature with it tacked on there name and people took them more seriously. It may not instantly change scope, but it could with enough adopting it.

no question admin will see it as a positive for hiring.

I don’t disagree that there should be more and better bridges, but since we can’t make it happen on our side of the profession, we just have to forge our own path.

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19 hours ago, PAtoMD said:

Carib big 4

SABA

Ross

AUC

St. George

None of which are as competitive as any US DO school like you said. 

But as many have pointed out over the years, matching to a US residency is extremely difficult if not impossible. And then you have to jump through the FMG hoops, no?

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