What is going on with the title change investigation?

[deltawave]

Given the current crisis I imagine that any rebranding will be abandoned now that PAs are now a more common household discussion. On the news, in other media, gaining name recognition, governments loosening regulations, legislators understanding what PAs are/do, etc.

Whatever steam we may gain from this public health disaster would be sent back to square one if we switched the name dramatically after this. MCP and others are likely DRT.

I foresee we will remain PAs, but the most we will get is what was already most likely if it is decided to move forward with title change: Physician Associate. 
 

 

[SedRate]

3 hours ago, deltawave said:

Given the current crisis I imagine that any rebranding will be abandoned now that PAs are now a more common household discussion. On the news, in other media, gaining name recognition, governments loosening regulations, legislators understanding what PAs are/do, etc.

Whatever steam we may gain from this public health disaster would be sent back to square one if we switched the name dramatically after this. MCP and others are likely DRT.

I foresee we will remain PAs, but the most we will get is what was already most likely if it is decided to move forward with title change: Physician Associate. 
 

 

Yes, this. Move forward with legislation and then change later if needed.

[Hope2PA]

5 hours ago, deltawave said:

Given the current crisis I imagine that any rebranding will be abandoned now that PAs are now a more common household discussion. On the news, in other media, gaining name recognition, governments loosening regulations, legislators understanding what PAs are/do, etc.

Whatever steam we may gain from this public health disaster would be sent back to square one if we switched the name dramatically after this. MCP and others are likely DRT.

I foresee we will remain PAs, but the most we will get is what was already most likely if it is decided to move forward with title change: Physician Associate. 
 

 

Really?  On what news, media? PA's have been lucky to be lumped in with some, but left out on others. Do you really think that is because they "understand" what a PA is?  I have only heard one instance of PA's being mentioned, appropriately.  Dr. and nurse, EMT and first responders yes, but not PA on any regular basis that makes the profession a more common household discussion.  How many of those loosened restrictions will stick for PA's, med students, recent grads, etc? Why not change title and go forward with presenting it as PA's have been underestimated, and dismissed so much that they chose a title to better match their education and abilities, one that is more easily understood, without long explanation. Sounds more like HOD to afraid to actually make a move and are using this for an excuse.    Maybe PA's have been mentioned a time or two, but more in passing and definitely not enough to get understood by common household or legislators.

[PACali]

22 hours ago, deltawave said:

Given the current crisis I imagine that any rebranding will be abandoned now that PAs are now a more common household discussion. On the news, in other media, gaining name recognition, governments loosening regulations, legislators understanding what PAs are/do, etc.

Whatever steam we may gain from this public health disaster would be sent back to square one if we switched the name dramatically after this. MCP and others are likely DRT.

I foresee we will remain PAs, but the most we will get is what was already most likely if it is decided to move forward with title change: Physician Associate. 
 

 

I disagree

I just literally had a patient’s family who didn’t know what a PA was and thought I was the doctor’s little helper. 

We would be extremely naive to think COIVD19 is going to promote and save the entire PA profession. I actually think it is destroying and even exposing the weakness of our profession. Just ask those who got furlough. Even though you probably see most of the patients and working solo in your clinics, guess who is going to be the first one to leave? You and Me, the PAs! Majority of us are not practice owners or even partners. We are not in the C-suite, because we are assistants, dependent providers, mid-levels you name it. PAs are not getting hired by Telemedicine because of additionally administrative barriers.  We still got a lot of work to do and title change is one of them and a very important one. 

Medical Care Practitioner (someone also had mention Advanced Medical Practitioner) is a better title. People will know and understand we practice medicine with these titles. 

Physician Associate will not allow us to grow into our fullest potential. We are not going to be sent back to square one because We are already at Square One compare to the NPs.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by PACali

[SedRate]

I'm all for a name change. I'm tired of being an Assistant.

Yes, having a different name may help others understand our value and therefore may help with legislative efforts ultimately. One big issue I see with pursuing a name change first is how long it will take to settle on a name, approve it, change current legislation to reflect new name, and then pursue independence. We've already been putting all of this off for long enough. Hell, we weren't able to even settle on changing our name until recently and we still don't have a unified consensus on what that change should be.  

Having everything perfectly in place doesn't always work in business, politics and legislation. Part of being successful is just getting things going as well as timing and talking to the right people.

[PAinPenna]

I have a feeling we will be keeping PA , but will become Physician Associate .

yeah it kinda sucks BUT it doesn’t suck as much as assistant , so given the times we are in - anything is a step forward however small 

[Cideous]

1 hour ago, PAinPenna said:

I have a feeling we will be keeping PA , but will become Physician Associate .

yeah it kinda sucks BUT it doesn’t suck as much as assistant , so given the times we are in - anything is a step forward however small 

Physician Associate is not a step forward.  It would be a big step backward as it would doom this profession to another decade of a terrible and inaccurate name.  We are NOT Physicians and we are NOT Associates.  This unhealthy fascination with the letters P and A are  killing us.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Cideous

[Hope2PA]

2 hours ago, SedRate said:

 One big issue I see with pursuing a name change first is how long it will take to settle on a name, approve it, change current legislation to reflect new name, and then pursue independence. We've already been putting all of this off for long enough. Hell, we weren't able to even settle on changing our name until recently and we still don't have a unified.

I am obviously ignorant on time to “settle” on a name and approve it. What has been going on for the past two years? Why should it take any longer than the meeting to review and take next step immediately? It has already been determined the title is horrible. You are correct not all Pa’s agree on what title should be. However,  Not all NP, APRN, CNS, CRNA agree that they should seek or have gotten independence. Many really dislike the watering down of the academics associated with their degree. However, the nurse leaders do not care what anyone thinks or says, except what is BEST to further advance NP, APRN, etc. WHY can’t AAPA, HOD and whomever else is involved get over the attitude of accepting a crappy title because it may be easier and instead, think and act upon long term impact. Even with a little extra time, if title actually was more easily understood by legislators, it is likely easier to get legislation passed, vs. the constant trying to explain that not, PA’s are not just physicians helpers, they are actually highly educated Medical Care Practitioners who, with specified time limits, can practice without all the burdens currently in place!

[SedRate]

23 minutes ago, Hope2PA said:

I am obviously ignorant on time to “settle” on a name and approve it. What has been going on for the past two years? Why should it take any longer than the meeting to review and take next step immediately? It has already been determined the title is horrible. You are correct not all Pa’s agree on what title should be. However,  Not all NP, APRN, CNS, CRNA agree that they should seek or have gotten independence. Many really dislike the watering down of the academics associated with their degree. However, the nurse leaders do not care what anyone thinks or says, except what is BEST to further advance NP, APRN, etc. WHY can’t AAPA, HOD and whomever else is involved get over the attitude of accepting a crappy title because it may be easier and instead, think and act upon long term impact. Even with a little extra time, if title actually was more easily understood by legislators, it is likely easier to get legislation passed, vs. the constant trying to explain that not, PA’s are not just physicians helpers, they are actually highly educated Medical Care Practitioners who, with specified time limits, can practice without all the burdens currently in place!

Agreed. As much as I also want to agree with you that with "a little extra time" to change the name to help our cause and get legislators to better understand what we do, I am very concerned that the entire name change endeavor will not be so quick as one would hope, but instead continue to drag on and extend our lag behind NPs. 

[Hope2PA]

2 hours ago, SedRate said:

Agreed. As much as I also want to agree with you that with "a little extra time" to change the name to help our cause and get legislators to better understand what we do, I am very concerned that the entire name change endeavor will not be so quick as one would hope, but instead continue to drag on and extend our lag behind NPs. 

It has been 10+ years in discussion, 2 years of research. They already know the title is horrible. Associate iis a mere appeasement and not having the guts to make a move that will benefit the profession long term. At a time where we are seeing telemedicine, zoom parties and weddings, and AAPA, HOD etc can’t manage to get this issue taken care of ASAP? When I say a little more time, I am talking few months. Why should it be any longer? Who can explain 1. why Physician Associate is BETTER, LONG TERM, than Medical Care Practitioner. 2. Why it can’t be accomplished within 6 months.  The two titles were split when survey was done and apparently some of those for Associate later changed mind after hearing logical reasons for MCP. Not everyone will be happy, but the job of leaders is to do what is BEST for current and future of the profession, not easiest, or ok for now, or what was ok 10-15 years ago. 
 

[PAinPenna]

I too am in favor of Medical Care Practitioner but I have a strong feeling it’s not going to happen .

Associate is better than assistant . If this is the way it goes we are going to have to accept it . What is the alternative ? 

[Cideous]

9 minutes ago, PAinPenna said:

I too am in favor of Medical Care Practitioner but I have a strong feeling it’s not going to happen .

Associate is better than assistant . If this is the way it goes we are going to have to accept it . What is the alternative ? 

I don't have to accept it and will never call myself an Associate.  I will retire and leave the profession if after all this time what we end up with is "Associate". That's a promise.

[rev ronin]

On 4/21/2020 at 3:33 PM, Cideous said:

I don't have to accept it and will never call myself an Associate.  I will retire and leave the profession if after all this time what we end up with is "Associate". That's a promise.

It'd be sad to lose your passion.  Of course, the world is only changed by unreasonable people, but there are more who fail to effect the changes they desire than those who succeed.

[deltawave]

Wow. You all really took what I said and ran with it. 

I’m still in camp MCP (or similar), I was just giving an opinion on how I think it’s going to go, and what the 30000 foot view looks like. 

Also, PAs are not the only ones being furloughed.

Additionally, those who think that someone will just snap their fingers and ‘so it shall be’ don’t really understand how the world works IMO. I don’t mean that as an insult, but rather as a realistic perspective. It’s going to take time to implement any title change. It won’t occur overnight- it’s like turning a ship. (As Cid would say, the Titanic, because we’re sinking).

Edited April 23, 2020 by deltawave

[PACali]

13 hours ago, deltawave said:

Wow. You all really took what I said and ran with it. 

I’m still in camp MCP (or similar), I was just giving an opinion on how I think it’s going to go, and what the 30000 foot view looks like. 

Also, PAs are not the only ones being furloughed.

Additionally, those who think that someone will just snap their fingers and ‘so it shall be’ don’t really understand how the world works IMO. I don’t mean that as an insult, but rather as a realistic perspective. It’s going to take time to implement any title change. It won’t occur overnight- it’s like turning a ship. (As Cid would say, the Titanic, because we’re sinking).

I think most of us just frustrated. We all know it is not going to be an overnight process but the title change discussion has been going on forever. I remember when I first started, 100 PAs leader signed a petition for a title change and that was 10 years ago. I think it is really up to us to push the AAPA move forward to the next step. Just like Hope2PA said, there is nothing stoping them from doing Zoom meetings. They probably have more times now, since their clinical hours are most likely reduced. I am pretty sure WPP can work remotely while conducting their study via phone, email survey etc. Most of the people are at home doing nothing anyway.  

[ProSpectre]

At this point, it's still futile to be arguing about one title or another (Physician Associate vs Medical Care Practitioner), as the phase 2 study results haven't even been released yet, and we don't actually know for sure if those were "finalists" or if they were still doing market testing. Which was the point of my previous comments -- the definitive results of the study need to be released as soon as possible so we can see what WPP came up with, and what titles they feel are strongest according to their research. Once that happens, the merits of those front-runner titles can be discussed and debated in the HOD, and possibly even put to a final vote to all PAs nationwide. 

Either way though, we can't act in any unified manner until that step is done. There is a large spotlight on healthcare workers in general right now, and lots of PAs in recent weeks have used social media (and the mainstream media) to ensure our profession is represented and getting the exposure it deserves -- so there is no better time to get this show on the road than right now. I have debated posting something similar on the Huddle (where I know the AAPA keeps tabs on things), but I was hoping they would address this elephant in the room on their own. 

PAs have been patiently waiting for this (or impatiently waiting, in many cases), and we are ready for this change to finally occur; we just need the AAPA to uphold their end of the deal and have WPP release their results so we can collectively begin taking action. 

[deltawave]

Any word?

[PACali]

6 hours ago, deltawave said:

Any word?

"Due to cancellation of AAPA 2020 related to COVID-19, the TCI final report presentations are now scheduled to occur at the AAPA House of Delegates meeting, Nov. 20 – 22, 2020"

https://www.aapa.org/title-change-investigation/process/timeline/

Lets hope we get some good report, not just "our title sucks, and we should change it but we can't.- the end of report"

[Cideous]

On 5/19/2020 at 6:01 PM, PACali said:

"Due to cancellation of AAPA 2020 related to COVID-19, the TCI final report presentations are now scheduled to occur at the AAPA House of Delegates meeting, Nov. 20 – 22, 2020"

https://www.aapa.org/title-change-investigation/process/timeline/

Lets hope we get some good report, not just "our title sucks, and we should change it but we can't.- the end of report"

 

Never  before has any profession as highly trained as ours, made so many decisions that were contrary to moving the profession forward.  It's really quite stunning when you see what DO's, NP's, Pharmacists and even Chiro's have done to promote themselves in the last 10 years?

 

Us?  Dancing PA ads.  

Mercy.

[ProSpectre]

On 5/19/2020 at 8:01 PM, PACali said:

"Due to cancellation of AAPA 2020 related to COVID-19, the TCI final report presentations are now scheduled to occur at the AAPA House of Delegates meeting, Nov. 20 – 22, 2020"

https://www.aapa.org/title-change-investigation/process/timeline/

Lets hope we get some good report, not just "our title sucks, and we should change it but we can't.- the end of report"

Yea I'm pretty disappointed with this decision to delay release of the results until November. The one year study (that many PAs didn't support in the first place) turned into two years, which has now turned into two and a half. 

I supported the study early on with the understanding that it was likely the best way for us to present a unified front once we had data behind the decision for a title change. But while the pandemic was unexpected, this just feels like they're once again kicking the can further down the road, and I fear we may be missing a window of opportunity here. 

[sas5814]

One man's opinion but it would be better to release all the data BEFORE the HOD meets. That would give the HOD time to review it and, theoretically, all of us to share our thoughts with the delegates that are supposed to represent our interests and opinions.

[ProSpectre]

53 minutes ago, sas5814 said:

One man's opinion but it would be better to release all the data BEFORE the HOD meets. That would give the HOD time to review it and, theoretically, all of us to share our thoughts with the delegates that are supposed to represent our interests and opinions.

Exactly. I get delaying the meeting itself due to COVID concerns, but I don't understand the rationale behind delaying the release of the study results themselves. The study results should be released earlier so that people can look at the data, think through the possible title options, and form opinions that can then be expressed to their representatives in the HOD for further action at the meeting.

At this rate, is the goal going to be to release the results to the HOD in November but then delay any action until the 2021 meeting the following May? Like I said, just kicking the can down the road... 

[CAdamsPAC]

On 4/22/2020 at 11:21 PM, rev ronin said:

It'd be sad to lose your passion.  Of course, the world is only changed by unreasonable people, but there are more who fail to effect the changes they desire than those who succeed.

For 18 years I was termed a Physician Associate in my workplace that had no effect on how I was treated. For the last 10 years I've worked as a Physician Assistant where I'v been treated with great respect and dignity.