Sitting for the Nurse Practitioner Boards as a PA......

[Cideous]

-With NP's lapping us legislatively in state after state 

-Physicians (who our leadership pinned their hopes on to defend and protect us) sell out to corporations and us with them

-NCCPA actively works against our profession to hold us back in their words to "protect the public interest.."

 

I am starting to come to terms with the harsh truth that like in all aspects of life, there are winners and there are losers, and we are losing the legislative battle.

In an effort to survive the onslaught of NP success, I wonder is it time to consider merging fields with them.....?

At the very least, cheer them in their successes, swallow our pride and attach ourselves to their Godzilla-like lobby?

Inquiring whether PA's could be allowed to test and certify through their governing body might be a first step toward survival.....

 

I know this post will catch a lot of hate, and I hate to write it, especially after 25 years of dedicated service to this profession.  It's not a troll post but a serious question and something we should begin to start considering if we are to leave any type of viable profession to the thousands of new PA's out there with massive student loan debt wondering if they will be able to make their loan payments in 5 years if NP's continue to kick our asses in statehouses.

I don't know what the answer is anymore, but it might be time to start thinking outside of the box.....WAY outside.

[Saltydog]

“It’s not a troll post...” [emoji23]


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[Cideous]

9 minutes ago, Saltydog said:

“It’s not a troll post...”


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Then by ALL means, share your plan to counter the NP legislative onslaught?   .....right.

[ventana]

Been kicked around before. 

 

Need to be an RN first.  Then NP.  No way to get from PA to NP without doing full program.  

Bridge to NP would be a very real threat to PA in primary care fields.  Ie I would do hospice, but I can’t, need to be an NP.   

[Hope2PA]

Nice guys finish LAST! At some point years ago, weren't NP’s allowed to take PANCE when they needed the PA clout. However, my 2 cents, no way Would PA’s be allowed to set for NP boards!!! Why would nursing even consider the thought, more likely, ROFLMFO! Or ROFLTAO!! 

The plan, hope every day the current and new  “leaders” get some balls, push like hell and quit playing nice!!! 

 

[rev ronin]

51 minutes ago, ventana said:

 I would do hospice, but I can’t, need to be an NP.   

This one, at least, is legislatively fixed, right?  We may wait years for the actual implementation, of course, but hasn't it been remedied at the Medicare level?  Now as far as diabetic shoes go...

[Hope2PA]

Totally respect those leaders that are progressive and fighting for title change and OTP. 

[rev ronin]

1 hour ago, Saltydog said:

“It’s not a troll post...”

Just because something is incindiary doesn't mean it's trolling.  We allow difficult conversations here, unlike Huddle.  Huddle knows who you are, so they censor you based on what you say. We allow pseudonymity here, so we remove people for trolling behavior, not primarily on the contents of their posts.

[Cideous]

Thanks Rev.  I would hope in the last decade of me posting on these boards I have shown that I just desperately what our profession which I dearly love to survive and move forward.

[DiggySRNA]

It would be nice if there were more dual PA/NP programs like UC Davis'. Outside of that, based on how some nurses (both RNs and APRNs) perceive PAs (what I've witnessed in nursing school), NPs would never allow PAs to sit and take either respective NP boards *there are two of them* without first going through nursing school plus NP school.

I wanted to be a PA so bad a few years ago before nursing school but didn't make the cut and I am happy I got turned down *today*. It seems NPs have less political battles to fight, but this is one future NP that will always be a PA ally. You guys are so talented and smart.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Diggy

[GMM2019]

I mean... based on my experience with applying to jobs, I kind of wish I were an NP. 1-2 of the major healthcare networks in my preferred area seem to only hire NPs. It would also be nice to have union protection, especially as medicine becomes more corporatized... 

[sas5814]

I said 10 years ago I'd take the NP exam if I could because I could see where things were headed. I might do it now if there were a way. It isn't trolling or crazy. It is creative thinking based on current reality.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

As a RN and PA, I think about it all the time. At one point it was my plan because the profession wasn’t heading a direction I thought was long term  viable. Now that we are actually investigating the title and pushing for OTP, I’m holding off and think about it less every time AAPA shows they are pushing now.

[DiggySRNA]

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Hopefully1DayPAc said:

Seems like it... Wish it was offered both ways! 

The only way it would be offered both ways is if the PA student is a licensed RN. I'm pretty sure they thought about this but they probably don't get enough RNs that apply to their PA program lol. Mostly RN--->NP.

[Cideous]

My overriding point was that if we as a profession joined forces with NP's...I mean REALLY joined forces....we would not be left out of the party when all is said and done....

I don't want our kids (new pa's) to be left without a chair when the music stops,  because if NP's keep winning like they have been.....our new PA's are going to be totally screwed.

[Hope2PA]

Except when PA's allowed NP to set for exams quite a while back, what profession would actually allow people, who do not jump through their perspective hoops, take certifying/board exam? Answer, NONE, that I am aware of.  Could you imagine/dream of a system in which any provider, MD, DO, PA, NP was allowed to set for same exam, to achieve, then maintain every 10 years,  a specified level of expertise and respect, yes you can practice independently, not because you were able to wine and dine legislature (yep, I am singling out NP or CRNA), but because you actually have knowledge and experience. However, this should follow route of if you fail so many times, no more chances.  Although,  percentage wise, most MD, DO would definitely continue to pass, they would not want to realize or accept the fact that a few, individual, highly motivated, PA or NP could potentially do as well. While NP may not like the idea, Id bet most PA's would agree, if you cannot pass family med board, shouldn't practice independently.  This would also help those MD, DO's who couldn't match for residency.  Let them, unmatched MD/DO, PA & NP all work for 3-5 years and take boards, three strikes and your out. If you don't pass after the three attempts,  not really out, just must maintain supervisor/collaboration to work.

Alas, PA's take high road by staying somewhat connected to "real" doctors even with OTP, NP want easy road, delusional in the belief they are as good/better any other provider, including MD/DO(sorry Diggy, I am sure you are working hard and will do your best, but as you said, you couldn't get into PA program, therefore highly unlikely MD or DO).  Then you have MD/DO just trying to protect the long road they had to travel to achieve current knowledge and status.

 

[Saltydog]

Just because something is incindiary doesn't mean it's trolling.  We allow difficult conversations here, unlike Huddle.  Huddle knows who you are, so they censor you based on what you say. We allow pseudonymity here, so we remove people for trolling behavior, not primarily on the contents of their posts.

I completely support your stance. Free speech is the vehicle of innovative ideas. I didn’t accuse him of trolling, I simply quoted his statement. I think it’s comical.


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[Saltydog]

Then by ALL means, share your plan to counter the NP legislative onslaught?   .....right.

NPs are clearly blowing past us and something must be done. I commend your effort to offer a solution. As a PA-S, the situation is discouraging. I don’t believe NPs would ever allow us to sit for their boards because they would lose the leverage they have over us. In addition, we have a background in medicine not nursing. Why don’t we merge with MD/DO boards? There could be a true masters of medicine degree offered by medical schools. The degree would lead to a independent PA license would not require supervisory agreements to practice. It would be offered to all medical students and they would have the option of continuing their education to earn a MD/DO or keeping their masters and practicing as a PA.


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[Reality Check 2]

I have never been an RN so I can’t be an NP.....

Plus, I like and respect  the PA education more. Would never want to lose that.

I would personally rather work to become an MD/DO if I were forced to make a change.

At 28 yrs in..... what could I do realistically?

Just my 2 cents

[BruceBanner]

Out of pure curiosity I wonder if I could challenge the NP boards and pass without studying. I think I could. 

They arent for us and never will be. Nurses look out for their own, and PAs have to play catch-up with whoever will listen, because we dont have the representative clout.

I think most of us just want to do our jobs and go home. Which is well and good until the NPs you work with are making 10% more for doing the exact same job. 

 

[DiggySRNA]

 

 

 

23 hours ago, Hope2PA said:

.... NP want easy road, delusional in the belief they are as good/better any other provider, including MD/DO(sorry Diggy, I am sure you are working hard and will do your best, but as you said, you couldn't get into PA program, therefore highly unlikely MD or DO).  Then you have MD/DO just trying to protect the long road they had to travel to achieve current knowledge and status.

 

I have the stats (3.5 previous BS plus 3000+ PCE among other things) to get into PA school. If I had broadened where I applied to and didn't mind attempting a second time, I am positive I would've gotten in somewhere. Especially now that I have a 3.7 BSN and over 5000 combined experience as a former urgent care MA and current ER nurse. I wasn't some wishy-washy PA wannabe with a 2.5 GPA and mediocre experience hoping for a miracle. I dedicated my resume to become a PA but we all know how 2000 applications for 30 seats is never a promising gamble.

Just don't care to spend thousands more on another application cycle and play the numbers game. Never cared to be an MD/DO so never attempted to, so your point is null. 

Also, nowhere in my comment have I ever stated NPs are better than physicians because clearly, they are NOT - so I'm not entirely sure why you're sorry for that comment.

FYI, NPs are as good as any other provider or they wouldn't be highly sought out by employers. My mind will not change unless you provide me some peer-reviewed articles that say patients are in terrible hands if their PCP/provider is an NP.  If you're a PA prospect, don't get caught up in this pissing contest. NPs are here to stay, and yes (the younger generation NPs) are taking the easy legislative route because somewhere along the road, our governing bodies grew balls. 

[Marinejiujitsu]

NPs are sought out because physicians don't want the liability of another provider and to sign their charts. That's the reason they are sought out but yeah, they are here to stay.

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[DiggySRNA]

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Marinejiujitsu said:

NPs are sought out because physicians don't want the liability of another provider and to sign their charts. That's the reason they are sought out but yeah, they are here to stay.

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So, in corporate medicine where both PAs and NPs are required to be cosigned, NPs aren't sought out because they are a type of advanced practice clinicians? But are sought out because they're some random title with less restricted practice abilities? Got it.

[Cideous]

^^^ I can only speak to Texas, but in this state PA's and NP's are viewed identically under the law in regards to restrictions.  That however is looking to change with NP's steamrolling towards more independence here.  If they get it, it's all over by the crying for PA's in the great state of Texas.

 

As to your NP leadership growing a set of balls?  Do you think they would lend them to our leadership?  Currently ours reside in a box on the mantle of Physicians......

Edited June 11, 2019 by Cideous

[Marinejiujitsu]

So, in corporate medicine where both PAs and NPs are required to be cosigned, NPs aren't sought out because they are a type of advanced practice clinicians? But are sought out because they're some random title with less restricted practice abilities? Got it.

I would say you are living in a made up world. Have you been to an ER or seen who surgeons hire. It's not NPs, it's mostly PAs. My hospital doesn't even hire NPs. In the last 9 yrs I would say there might be 5% in the ER. The places where I see NPs sought out above ERs is do to cosigning.

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