Noreaster Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I have always taken time to fill out the census, put out by the AAPA. The AAPA is charging an insultingly high charge for a salary report--if one is a non-member. The price difference between members and non-members is huge. How about we no longer fill out the census for 'em? I really wanted to get the salary report b/c I'm up for a raise but I will not pay over a hundred bucks for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marilynpac Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 This almost sounds like the same frustrations that was put forth in a thread started by MCHAD a couple weeks ago. The AAPA sent out a survey asking members and nonmembers how it can serve it's members more effectively. You do the survey and if you want to know the results it will cost you. The AAPA is going to lose credibility if it keeps up this practice. Without people stopping to take the time to do the survey, they(AAPA) wouldn't even have a survey period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Not_Sean Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 $100 is a lot of money. But it is an invaluable resource, as evidence by you being so upset at needing that information but not wanting to pay the amount charged. From the AAPA's standpoint: they know this information is valuable, and most likely use it as encouragement for PA's to become members of the organization, given the large difference in price. I can see why this is frustrating, though. I guess you have to ask yourself whether you think your raise will be more than $100, and if this is a good investment for you. On the other hand: I see your point in the fact that the AAPA depends on both members and non-members for this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 31, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 31, 2010 At the very least, nonmember survey participants should get a discount code allowing them to buy the complete survey at the member price. I've seen salary surveys in the IT world done that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marilynpac Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 @rev ronin, I have to agree, a nice healthy discount would suffice----like 75%off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I have purchased the salary report in the past and it was quite inaccurate. We are firendly with cardiac PAs from at least 5 different local hospitals, and we all tend to share basic salary ranges with each other. Of course you take these as possibly embellished, but a survery response may be as well. I was planning to use the AAPA survey in my negotiations but it was a good 10-20% off the local rate. The caveat for us is that the n is smaller than a bigger specialty like EM or general practice which may lead to skewing by the number of respondents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookspa Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 aapa is inaccurate in our area or pas are underreporting income to surveys or overreporting in conversation. well below our facilities $$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I bought the salary report once. Total waste of $35. Information was old and too small of a sample size for my area...don't waste your effort or your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon24 Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Maybe we can all pitch in and share the report....or if someone already has it, they can share it with the rest of the members here. I am interested in seeing the report and am not a member yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 31, 2010 Administrator Share Posted August 31, 2010 Maybe we can all pitch in and share the report....or if someone already has it, they can share it with the rest of the members here. I am interested in seeing the report and am not a member yet. That would be called a copyright violation, unfortunately. I don't have personal knowledge of this, but I expect that they will have language in the agreement preventing sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marilynpac Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I look at it this way. What's the difference if I go to the store and buy a novel and then let someone else read it? I bought and paid for it. There's always a way to work around it. I'm not interested in the report, I don't participate in surveys...rule of thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatcat Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 This almost sounds like the same frustrations that was put forth in a thread started by MCHAD a couple weeks ago. The AAPA sent out a survey asking members and nonmembers how it can serve it's members more effectively. You do the survey and if you want to know the results it will cost you. The AAPA is going to lose credibility if it keeps up this practice. Without people stopping to take the time to do the survey, they(AAPA) wouldn't even have a survey period. Another thing about asking so much money for this survey is that it's useless to prospective employers with that price tag on it. Employers are not going to pay the nonAAPA fee to see this survey. So..what's the point of the survey if PAs and employers have to pay for this information? PAs fill the survey out free for the AAPA who in turn makes makes the information available only for a fee to anyone who would benefit from this information. Nice job AAPA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted September 2, 2010 Moderator Share Posted September 2, 2010 I have bought both old reports and then the new one this year..... yikes.... They used to give a "custom report" that was specific to your area and experise...... and I suspect full of errors in that you had to determine your area and speciality and sample size was an issue... But to me still useful then this year got another one and was surprised and disappointed to get a very generic long report (many many pages) that had the info I was looking for burried somewhere in it.... maybe better for reliance but FAR less user friendly.. Norester - can't have much sympathy for you complaint of cost..... As much as AAPA has it faults it has been exceptioanlly helpful in various interactions I have had with them in the political realm. Yes they need to do a lot more public awareness but the first step is legislation and they are actually pretty decent.. We all should be members (no I don't work for them nor do I feel particularly loyal to them) but they are our representation in the PAC arena. I pay $250/yr from my CME funds (doesn't cost me a dime) and figure it is money well spent. As for the survey - I have always used it to back up my salary demands and provide the report to them and sometimes it even works!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradopa Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 I have bought both old reports and then the new one this year..... yikes.... They used to give a "custom report" that was specific to your area and experise...... and I suspect full of errors in that you had to determine your area and speciality and sample size was an issue... But to me still useful then this year got another one and was surprised and disappointed to get a very generic long report (many many pages) that had the info I was looking for burried somewhere in it.... maybe better for reliance but FAR less user friendly.. Norester - can't have much sympathy for you complaint of cost..... As much as AAPA has it faults it has been exceptioanlly helpful in various interactions I have had with them in the political realm. Yes they need to do a lot more public awareness but the first step is legislation and they are actually pretty decent.. We all should be members (no I don't work for them nor do I feel particularly loyal to them) but they are our representation in the PAC arena. I pay $250/yr from my CME funds (doesn't cost me a dime) and figure it is money well spent. As for the survey - I have always used it to back up my salary demands and provide the report to them and sometimes it even works!! I asked them about this and the reason that they went away from the custom reports was because of inaccuracy. You could construct your report anyway you wanted. They would continue to add groups until they go enough for statistical accuracy. For example if you lived in Colorado and need a report on GI salaries there weren't enough in the state then they would include surrounding states. If you new for example that the states to the East didn't pay well you could go west through Utah and Nevada until you got to California which would give you a whole different salary than if you did CO, WY, KS, and NM for example. The problem was that PAs would do it one way and employers would do it another and get different answers. What they do now is divide the country up by state and similar region (salary and benefit wise). That's the reason the South is cut up for example. Generally salaries within the region are comparable (although there may be local or specialty outliers). The other thing to remember is that the data still exists even if they don't publish it. When I was looking for critical care data they had both Atlanta and Georgia data and were happy to share it. They just label that it doesn't reach statistical significance. They are still retooling the data analysis section but theoretically we should be seeing specialty data soon. What you get for your money is this: Public data that everyone can get - National and State data along with specialty data For a fee you get the data broken down into region and state. Within a state or region where there are enough surveys to be statistically significant you also get specialty data. You can get most of what you need in the public data. The report just puts it in a better format and has some additional statistical work done. It also allows you to call and ask for more specific data. David Carpenter, PA-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noreaster Posted September 3, 2010 Author Share Posted September 3, 2010 I like the post about giving those, who participate in filling out the census a discount. The price ratio member : non-member is huge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welkins Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 Perhaps the AAPA should make this information available free to its members and charge a small fee for non-members. They send out a request for information to complete their survey. Perhaps if they are going to charge members then the members should respond by charging the AAPA a fee for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenangeleyes Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Just an FYI on this report for those who are concerned about sharing it: Look up the "fair use act." It is a legal way around copyright laws. From wikipedia... "Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship." So, if any of you are doing "research" on PA salaries, you can obtain it from another party just as you would share a medical journal article for "educational" purposes. Hypothetically speaking, I would certainly not condemn anyone if multiple parties went in on the electronic version then shared it among themselves (for research of course) and anyone else who requested it of them, even if it happened to undermine the insane price the AAPA is asking for this information that was actually provided by the people who want access to it (especially members who already pay them)... again, hypothetically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown10 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 I hate the AAPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 I hate the AAPA Out of curiousity, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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