Are you happy as a PA?

[Potatolife]

Hello, I have a question regarding the PA profession versus MD/DO. I'm 23 years old and I just applied to PA school. I'm excited to become a PA in the future. However, I can't help but be honest that I have come across several posts here with PAs stating they wish they had gone to medical school. Medical school is something I was never interested in, and I still am not. I don't have half of the prerequisites and even if I did, I don't think it's something I'd be interested in. Many people wanted me to attend medical school, but I just don't care for it. Some PAs have stated that they wish they went to medical school because they hit a ceiling in regards to salary and autonomy. They said that they could be making more than double what they make now, with less hours, better benefits, and more autonomy. Can I get some insight on this? How do you PAs feel? Are these PAs the exception or do most PAs feel that way? It was a bit discouraging and worrying honestly, but I still want to be a PA. What are your thoughts and experiences? Also, how much debt did you graduate with and how long did it take you to repay it? What were your monthly payments and were they reasonable with your salary?

I still want to be a PA, I think it's the perfect profession for me

[LKPAC]

6 minutes ago, Potatolife said:

I still want to be a PA, I think it's the perfect profession for me

That's all that matters, so go for it!  My own experience is that a well-trained, experienced PA can be as well respected as the docs.  Learn well, do a good job at work, take good care of your patients, treat your fellows with respect, commit to life-long learning.  You can have a long and happy career.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Depends on the generation based on the tone that many of us have.  For me being from the stone age where we were all under the thumb of our SP(s), not until the last couple of years here in Texas where I actually don't have anyone looking over my shoulder in the clinic for snot/cough cases but am knowledgeable enough to know when I see something serious (periorbital cellulitis for first time in 35 years last week for what was signed in as "pink eye").

[Potatolife]

7 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

Depends on the generation based on the tone that many of us have.  For me being from the stone age where we were all under the thumb of our SP(s), not until the last couple of years here in Texas where I actually don't have anyone looking over my shoulder in the clinic for snot/cough cases but am knowledgeable enough to know when I see something serious (periorbital cellulitis for first time in 35 years last week for what was signed in as "pink eye").

How do you feel now?

[kingcoffee7]

My organic chemistry teacher from undergrad just send me a FB message saying that he just decided to give up being a professor at a decent university to become a realtor. If you ask anyone tenured professor is better than real estate agent. But it wasn't better for him.

The point of that being that there is no job in the world where there isn't a small chance that you might end up not liking your job. 

People can only tell you what was right for them. All they know about you is the one paragraph you wrote on a site. Only you know what is best for you. People mean well, but don't make a decision just because of some people on the internet.

[Potatolife]

1 minute ago, kingcoffee7 said:

My organic chemistry teacher from undergrad just send me a FB message saying that he just decided to give up being a professor at a decent university to become a realtor. If you ask anyone tenured professor is better than real estate agent. But it wasn't better for him.

The point of that being that there is no job in the world where there isn't a small chance that you might end up not liking your job. 

People can only tell you what was right for them. All they know about you is the one paragraph you wrote on a site. Only you know what is best for you. People mean well, but don't make a decision just because of some people on the internet.

I wasn't planning on doing that. Regardless of what others say, I'm going to become a PA. I was just curious. Thank you though

[mgriffiths]

I graduated PA school 12/2016 - so 2 years in!  (crazy that it's already been 2 years).  Before going to PA school I had a short "career" as a high school science teacher, and then basically spent 18 months getting prerequisites and spending time working and shadowing in healthcare to decide what I wanted before deciding on PA school.

Do I enjoy being a PA?  Absolutely, I enjoy my job.  Are there days it sucks....absolutely.  But, overall it is good.  My current employer is not exactly the greatest, but that is why I have found a new position and am moving on.

Autonomy? I work in FM, yes I have a "collaborating physician" but from a patient perspective there is no difference between what I do and what he does.  The only difference is that he takes call and reviews/co-signs my charts.

Do I wish I had gone to medical school?  Sometimes, but then I get back to reality and realize that I would only now be graduating medical school (assuming I didn't do a 3 year program) and would still have residency ahead of me...That doesn't even include the RIDICULOUS debt and very little income (comparably) during residency (especially with student loan payments), AND the lost income for 4+ years.

I make basically $100k per year and graduated PA school with ~$60k of debt.

Average medical school debt is $200k, but many have WAY more.  Assuming I went into FP after med school, if you calculate out...that is approximately $565,000 lost income over 7 years (4yr school + 3yr residency - assuming $40k, $45k, $50k residency income) with an extra $140k of debt.  That is essentially $700k of lost money for MD/DO, and I'm being somewhat conservative as my next job I expect to be making more around $130k-150k depending on how busy I am.

In the long run would I make up for the lost income with the higher income of MD/DO, YES...especially if I were lucky enough to match into one of the higher paying residencies.  But, of course you have to match which requires certain sacrifices.

Worth it for me to go MD/DO:  at this time I can say...ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!  I like my job, I make a good salary.  Until recently I was respected, but tangible things changed (and I did have some role to play, but unfortunately those in power are being petty), and I am confident that I will be respected at my next job.

I work less than my collaborating physician, but that is because I am efficient and don't take call or co-sign charts.  Do some of the physicians within our practice work less than me?  Yes, but they are also close to retirement.  They still make more than me, but that is reality.  I work and make THEM money.  I am ok with that as long as I am paid fairly and am receiving a large enough piece of the pie that I produce.  Does it bother me sometimes that I do essentially the same job as my collaborating physician and he makes 2-3x what I do?  Yes, but that is also a product of him (and his partners) of being business owners.  As a physician he probably makes 1.5-2x what I do, and the rest is rental income and kickbacks from insurance companies for meeting certain quality measures.

 

WOW!!! This ended up being WAY longer than I expected.

[Joelseff]

I'm happy today.... My day off! Lol

 

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[Ejohns20]

Thanks for asking this @Potatolife and for your thorough response @mgriffiths - it touched on many aspects I was curious about. 

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

How do you feel now?

 

More tolerable. As others have said, good/less good days. Harder to get bent out of shape when you see snot/cough and your income is solely for monthly revolving expenses and retirement. Hours are good (10-6 M-Th and 7:30-4 F during school year) and I get two weeks off at Christmas. May be about to transition to school year only hours w/ lesser pay but that’s ok as well.

[Cideous]

I would feel much better about my choice to be a PA if we changed our name to Medical Practitioners and OTP was implemented nation wide.

 

But hey, AAPA currently has a "focus group firm" looking into it.  lol  Sorry, not a cynical thread.  Just wish we had made more progress as a profession commensurate with what we actually do in 2018...

[brooks23]

I'm about 2 years into my career as a PA, and I have no regrets. Of course, there are downsides to our profession, but every profession has those. I work in a place where I am respected, my opinion is respected, and I have almost complete autonomy with access to SP whenever I need it. 

I also received lots of pressure to pursue med school, but declined for a number of reasons. The one that tipped the scale was that I wanted the freedom to switch specialties. My personality is such that if I know I am stuck in something, I automatically hate it. You could argue that docs can switch specialties (FP practicing EM, or internists practicing dermatology), but we have freedom to move laterally in any direction. That freedom was extremely appealing to me when deciding my career path. 

The debt is a pain, but if you're wise with your decision making, money, and job selection, you can knock it out pretty quickly. 

 

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Went in to see a new neurologist for my annual levetiracetam refill after seeing my prior neuro last year at this time. We would annually discuss how much longer we would be staying. Son of a gun bailed on me in June I think it was per the letter. Office staff today said he just got fed up with all the non-medical care related issues and called it a career. One of his associates which I had also worked with professionally bailed a couple of years back and went to the Dallas VA.

 

[mgriffiths]

20 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

Went in to see a new neurologist for my annual levetiracetam refill after seeing my prior neuro last year at this time. We would annually discuss how much longer we would be staying. Son of a gun bailed on me in June I think it was per the letter. Office staff today said he just got fed up with all the non-medical care related issues and called it a career. One of his associates which I had also worked with professionally bailed a couple of years back and went to the Dallas VA.

 

This is exactly what ended the career of two FM physicians in my area, and will end my current collaborating physician's likely very soon...

[Joelseff]

Went in to see a new neurologist for my annual levetiracetam refill after seeing my prior neuro last year at this time. We would annually discuss how much longer we would be staying. Son of a gun bailed on me in June I think it was per the letter. Office staff today said he just got fed up with all the non-medical care related issues and called it a career. One of his associates which I had also worked with professionally bailed a couple of years back and went to the Dallas VA.

 

Weird... I went to see a new Rheumo today (I also see a neuro for Keppra! Small world) because my Rheumo retired 2 weeks ago. He wasn't that old. I'm guessing maybe 60. He was an excellent clinician but was in a "system" and we have had conversationss about the scut work of Medicine form time to time. I don't know if that's why he retired though.

 

On another note, at my office we had 2 internists quit 6 mos apart an di know FOR SURE that they left b/c of a new admin/management team was brought in who aren't clinically inclined but numbers driven.

 

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[Boatswain2PA]

11 hours ago, Potatolife said:

...I'm 23 years old and I just applied to PA school. I'm excited to become a PA in the future....

Medical school is something I was never interested in, and I still am not. I don't have half of the prerequisites and even if I did, I don't think it's something I'd be interested in. Many people wanted me to attend medical school, but I just don't care for it.

Some PAs have stated that they wish they went to medical school because they hit a ceiling in regards to salary and autonomy. They said that they could be making more than double what they make now, with less hours, better benefits, and more autonomy. Can I get some insight on this? How do you PAs feel? Are these PAs the exception or do most PAs feel that way? It was a bit discouraging and worrying honestly, but I still want to be a PA. What are your thoughts and experiences? Also, how much debt did you graduate with and how long did it take you to repay it?

I still want to be a PA, I think it's the perfect profession for me

You are 23.  Do the work and apply to medical school.  If you are not doing that because "that's too hard!", then please dont go to PA school.

 

Why weren't you interested in medical school?  If it's because we do different things, guess what....we do the same things.  If it's because it's too hard....see above (dont become a PA).

Insight into MD vs PA: MD = more work up front (prerequisites, school, residency) and about 2-3 times the pay, 50 times the respect, and 100 times the autonomy.

Debt makes you a slave, whether you are a PA or an MD.  The good thing about being an MD is you make 2-3 times as much so you can clear that debt faster.

 

Why do you think PA is "perfect" for you?  Cause you get to practice medicine, with much less training, and make good money???  Wrong answer.

[Potatolife]

12 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

You are 23.  Do the work and apply to medical school.  If you are not doing that because "that's too hard!", then please dont go to PA school.

 

Why weren't you interested in medical school?  If it's because we do different things, guess what....we do the same things.  If it's because it's too hard....see above (dont become a PA).

Insight into MD vs PA: MD = more work up front (prerequisites, school, residency) and about 2-3 times the pay, 50 times the respect, and 100 times the autonomy.

Debt makes you a slave, whether you are a PA or an MD.  The good thing about being an MD is you make 2-3 times as much so you can clear that debt faster.

 

Why do you think PA is "perfect" for you?  Cause you get to practice medicine, with much less training, and make good money???  Wrong answer.

Woah. I did not say any of that. I never said I thought PA school was easier than medical school. I never said any of those things that you stated. Please stop making assumptions. I know PA school is rigorous. I am simply more interested in becoming a PA because it better fits what I’m looking for. Your response felt like you were attacking me based on assumptions YOU came up with that I never stated or even implied. I could have went to medical school, but that is something I was never interested in. I initially was a math major, but fell in love with the PA profession, so I switched my career choice (the story is obviously deeper than just this). So, please... do not assume

[Boatswain2PA]

7 minutes ago, Potatolife said:

I am simply more interested in becoming a PA because it better fits what I’m looking for. Your response felt like you were attacking me based on assumptions YOU came up with that I never stated or even implied. I could have went to medical school, but that is something I was never interested in. I initially was a math major, but fell in love with the PA profession, so I switched my career choice (the story is obviously deeper than just this). So, please... do not assume

Im not making assumptions, just asking WHY.

WHY do you think PA is a better fit?

If I was attacking you....you would know it.  

You "could have gone to medical school"? You haven't passed the prerequisites, and no mention of your MCAT scores or acceptance letter...not sure you should say you "could have gone to medical school." 

 

So, back to my initial response.  WHY were you not interested in medical school? Why is PA so "perfect" for you?

[EMEDPA]

practicing as a PA IS practicing medicine. It is the same job as what a physician does, just with more oversight and less training. A doc and a PA working in family practice do the exact same things all day long, with the exception of the doc maybe reading the PAs charts at the end of the day(or not in many states). Have you ever worked with a PA or a doc before?

I enjoy my jobs as an EM PA now after 22 years as a PA. The last 5 years have been pretty good. There was a lot of disrespect and abuse early on to get me to where I am now. I am on job #9 now since graduation.  I would not wish it on anyone. I would discourage my kids from going to PA school. If there were a PA to MD/DO bridge similar to LECOM APAP in my home town I would STILL apply, and I will be 50 next year. I would be very happy as a double boarded FP/EM doc working in a rural setting doing full scope inpt and outpt medicine. There is a guy near me who does just this. 2 days a week as a hospitalist and 2 days a week as an ER doc. Best of both worlds.

[EMEDPA]

11 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

So, back to my initial response.  WHY were you not interested in medical school? Why is PA so "perfect" for you?

I am guessing the honest response is it is shorter than med school and costs less to attend and still results in a good salary. There should be more to it than that.

[Boatswain2PA]

4 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

I am guessing the honest response is it is shorter than med school and costs less to attend and still results in a good salary. There should be more to it than that.

Now your just being mean Emed...

[Joelseff]

I am guessing the honest response is it is shorter than med school and costs less to attend and still results in a good salary. There should be more to it than that.

But we spend more time with patients and we have lateral mobility and who wants to be "top dog" anyway?

[emoji12]

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[EMEDPA]

Just now, Joelseff said:

But we spend more time with patients and we have lateral mobility and who wants to be "top dog" anyway?



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well, yeah, when do you think we would have time to talk about Vit K2 and essential oils if we had the same 15 minute appointment slots as physicians.

[Joelseff]

well, yeah, when do you think we would have time to talk about Vit K2 and essential oils if we had the same 15 minute appointment slots as physicians. [emoji846]

Hahahaha

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[Joelseff]

But we spend more time with patients and we have lateral mobility and who wants to be "top dog" anyway?

[emoji12]

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For the benefit of the uninitiated posters this was tongue in cheek as Emed and the other old timers here know these "benefits" of being a PA are going bye bye

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