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PACali

New DMSc program in Oregon

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On 12/17/2018 at 10:15 AM, G. Davenport said:

HI all,

I am the one who is behind the GFU doctorate and there is good reason for correcting this issue.  First, you need to understand that academic awards are based on regional accreditation.  Here is what the Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities states:  

Degree Levels Associate

A lower division undergraduate degree normally representing two years (approximately 60 semester credits or 90 quarter units) of lower‐division collegiate study, or its equivalent in depth and quality of learning experience.

Baccalaureate

An undergraduate degree normally representing four years (approximately 120 semester credits or 180 quarter credits) of upper‐ and lower‐division collegiate study, or its equivalent in depth and quality of learning experience.

Masters

A graduate degree representing approximately 30 semester credits or 45 quarter credits of post‐baccalaureate study, or its equivalent in depth and quality.

Doctorate

A terminal degree representing three or more years [90 SH] of graduate study that prepares the recipient to conduct original research, engage in scholarship, create artistic expressions of human emotions, or apply knowledge to practice.

--

The type of degree awarded has nothing to do with the practice as a PA.  That is governed by the state medical board and legislation.   It does have everything to do with standards of regional accreditation.  It is not degree creep, it doesn't change what needs to be done.  It is simply applying the standards of regional accreditation and academic aptitude.   

oh, and the degree is a doctor of medical science.  Not PA Medicine.  And the tuition cost is similar to all regional costs (extrapolated out to 2021); the program has no fees.  And finally, I was a "certified PA."  

Please don't get caught up in the falsehood of degree creep or thinking the university makes more doing this.  Neither are true.  The cost is the same.  In fact, it is easier for me to build a Master's degree.  But, I am an academic and I intend to pursue a program that meets regional accreditation standards as listed above.   

Hope this helps.

Greg

Did George Fox recently change their DMSc program to a MMSc program? When checking the website today, it states the new George Fox PA program rewards a master's degree. 

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15 hours ago, Chiyoko said:

Did George Fox recently change their DMSc program to a MMSc program? When checking the website today, it states the new George Fox PA program rewards a master's degree. 

I am having lunch with the program director next week and will post an update after that. 

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2 hours ago, PACali said:

Any update on this? 

I talked with Cristina (an admissions counselor at George Fox) about this today. She let me know that this first incoming class will be a master's level class. They do intend to eventually make their program a doctorate but as of now, they can't get accreditation for anything above a master's. In order for them to get accreditation in September of 2020 for their 2022 cohort, they had to start the program off as a master's level program. 

 

Further information is provided on their website:

"Although the George Fox PA program meets university standards for a doctorate degree (112 graduate semester hours over six semesters), the Accreditation Review Commission on the Education of Physician Assistants (ARC-PA) is limited by the Council of Higher Education (CHEA) to a master's degree. According to CHEA policy, ARC-PA can request a scope change to be able to accredit programs that are located in institutions offering a doctoral degree. If ARC-PA does this, George Fox will apply for a substantive change to convert the PA degree from a master's degree to a doctorate."

 

Hope this helps!

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3 hours ago, Chiyoko said:

I talked with Cristina (an admissions counselor at George Fox) about this today. She let me know that this first incoming class will be a master's level class. They do intend to eventually make their program a doctorate but as of now, they can't get accreditation for anything above a master's. In order for them to get accreditation in September of 2020 for their 2022 cohort, they had to start the program off as a master's level program. 

 

Further information is provided on their website:

"Although the George Fox PA program meets university standards for a doctorate degree (112 graduate semester hours over six semesters), the Accreditation Review Commission on the Education of Physician Assistants (ARC-PA) is limited by the Council of Higher Education (CHEA) to a master's degree. According to CHEA policy, ARC-PA can request a scope change to be able to accredit programs that are located in institutions offering a doctoral degree. If ARC-PA does this, George Fox will apply for a substantive change to convert the PA degree from a master's degree to a doctorate."

 

Hope this helps!

It sounds like the problem is the ARC-PA, since they can only give accreditation to a master program.  I support PA education to a doctorate degree, especially if it costs the same per Dr. Davenport's post. 

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Will it be open to outside PAs or only Fox grads? A lil competition and decrease in price would be nice and might increase the # of doctorate PAs.

For me (any many I have spoken to) the most important thing is length of the DMSc program. Anything more than a year seems excessive.

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