Moderator ventana Posted November 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 Warning - the following is a vent I have had no less then 6 different interactions recently where people have been boasting, bragging that "their NP has gotten then Doctorate" some of these include 1) a local practice in which the Doc was bragging that their NP had their doctorate 2) local np's bragging that they now are doctors 3) local PA stating that his wife "has a doctorate" Then I look in the paper and see new practices (PT and Audiology) in which they talk about their DOCTORS - yup PT and Audiologist I am dismayed - some of these are newer grads, and are elevating themselves ABOVE a highly experienced PA's and NP's purely on the grounds of clinical degree (even if the PA degree is FAR harder then the online DNP degree a lot of them are touting...) 10 years ago I predicted this was going to happen, and now it is happening. The lay person has not a prayer of realizing the difference and the only thing PA's can do is get a doctorate to not get left behind..... Annoyed this is necessary, but how is the fastest cheapest way to get a DMS or other doctorate?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Didn't this happen over 10 years ago with the Masters? It's ALL degree creep! yes I know I have a masters and admittedly I got it simply for "parity" which is why I was considering the DMS at Lynchburg. The masters is no longer on par with my peers. Most NPs I work with has or is getting a DNP. Most of them have told me they hated having to get it and see it for what it is and they don't tote it like they are superior but they know time will catch up to them and they would have "needed" one eventually. I think as PAs, we are by nature in a way, opposed internally to degree creep. Let's face all PA programs whether it be a cert, AS, BS, MS is pretty much the same program and gives/gave us 99.99% (not a real Stat lol) of our education, training, competence etc. The Masters program that I did expanded on that some. Could I have skipped it, sure but again for parity's sake I see the (forced) need for it now. The same thing will hold true for the doctorate but I was hoping it would decades down the road. It's really coming up on the horizon fast and I think as more DMS programs come up, there's no stopping it. The market will be flooded in the next few/several years with new grad DMS, DSCPAS, DHSc etc PA's and job recruiters who aren't "in the know" will preferably hire them over a "merely" masters trained PA[emoji849]. I decided against getting a Doctorate but if it starts looking like I'm the only one in my dept without one or is not pursuing one, sigh, I may have to shell out 15k for more window dressing. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 3 hours ago, ventana said: Annoyed this is necessary, but how is the fastest cheapest way to get a DMS or other doctorate?? Lynchburg. 1 year. Clinical credit arranged through your current work experience. The current president of the AAPA was in the first class at Lynchburg, as were many well-known PAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 The only people who benefit from this is the colleges, who can spend $20K for an IT guy to set up a website, $120K/year for two "professors", and the charge $30-$60K/year for a hundred students a year to get an online doctorate. PTs are now coming out of school with $200K in debt and only making $80K/year. Same thing with Pharm, DNPs, etc. The janitor might have a doctorate too, doesn't mean he should present himself to patients as a doctor. If a DNP ever presents herself to my patient as a "doctor", I will quickly point out that she isn't a real "Doctor of medicine" but rather a doctor of nursing. I don't see me needing it anytime soon, hopefully not before I retire in 10 years. HIGHLY doubt I'll ever want to get a doctorate, but if I do I hope someone has set up a really cheap one for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 ATSU is also in the process of developing a DMSc. Both Lynchburg and ATSU can be done in a year. Both have excellent, well-known faculty members. I am sure either would meet the needs of any PA who feels the need to acquire a doctorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted November 10, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 so what is the DMS programs? total cost? Length? Lynchburg - Cost of the program for 2017-18 matriculation: Tuition:$24,309 (complete program) Application fee: $100 (non-refundable) Technology fee: $60 per semester Graduate program fee: $25 per semester Please note that if students do not finish the program in 12 months, they will incur additional tuition and fees. Appears to not require time on campus --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lincoln Memorial University – DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine. appears to be 4 semesters and 45 credits . Is travel involved? During the 17-month program, students are required to travel to campus two separate weeks. During the on-campus component, students will receive hands-on ultrasound and radiology training, participate in high yield medical seminars, and present their research projects and more. Medical Conference I and II: On-campus training (Medical conferences are 45 hours scheduled over 5 days.). Mass College of Pharmacy Doctor of Science in Physician Assistant Studies (DScPAS) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ATSU DMS Application Fee: $70 Tuition: $521 per credit hour (2017-2018 school year) Technology Fee: $32.00 per credit hour Note: All fees and tuition are subject to change. The Doctor of Health Sciences (DHSc) online program consists of 70 credit-hours of study. Most courses are three credit hours, a few are five credit hours, and the Winter Institute is six credit hours. There are additional fees for books, reference materials, Winter Institute travel, and accommodations. Looks like about $40,000 _______________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 https://www.atsu.edu/doctor-of-medical-science focus areas in education or leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 ATSU is also in the process of developing a DMSc. Both Lynchburg and ATSU can be done in a year. Both have excellent, well-known faculty members. I am sure either would meet the needs of any PA who feels the need to acquire a doctorate.I think ATSU is 2 years. Lynchburg is 12 mos. If I were to do one I would pick LMU (Lincoln Memorial) just for the more interesting (to me) courses offered. Have no desire for Leadership and education tracks are useless because I can teach with the other tracks. Mass College of Pharmacy is a non starter for me simply because of the name of the degree. Lol shallow I know but again, all this is window dressing so might as well go with the one with the best name! [emoji12] Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 Dr Danielsen said on the huddle that ATSU could be done in 80 weeks: https://huddle.aapa.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?GroupId=31&MessageKey=affa9dab-103b-4ec2-91c5-a0256bacb2cb&CommunityKey=e54b07fe-0e40-4c0c-a8e4-25d744d979b5&tab=digestviewer&ReturnUrl=%2fbrowse%2fallrecentposts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 so what is the DMS programs? total cost? Length? Lynchburg - Cost of the program for 2017-18 matriculation: Tuition:$24,309 (complete program) Application fee: $100 (non-refundable) Technology fee: $60 per semester Graduate program fee: $25 per semester Please note that if students do not finish the program in 12 months, they will incur additional tuition and fees. Appears to not require time on campus --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lincoln Memorial University – DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine. appears to be 4 semesters and 45 credits . Is travel involved? During the 17-month program, students are required to travel to campus two separate weeks. During the on-campus component, students will receive hands-on ultrasound and radiology training, participate in high yield medical seminars, and present their research projects and more. Medical Conference I and II: On-campus training (Medical conferences are 45 hours scheduled over 5 days.). Mass College of Pharmacy Doctor of Science in Physician Assistant Studies (DScPAS) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ATSU DMS Application Fee: $70 Tuition: $521 per credit hour (2017-2018 school year) Technology Fee: $32.00 per credit hour Note: All fees and tuition are subject to change. The Doctor of Health Sciences (DHSc) online program consists of 70 credit-hours of study. Most courses are three credit hours, a few are five credit hours, and the Winter Institute is six credit hours. There are additional fees for books, reference materials, Winter Institute travel, and accommodations. Looks like about $40,000 _______________________________________________________ Lincoln's DMS looks the most "fun" to me lol. 17 months ain't bad. I don't know why so many ppl here dislikes (or at least seems to) this DMS program. As far as DMS programs go its the (again my opinion) the most interesting. It would have been kinda cool if they got the license part through legislation but since that died, this with OTP seems like the best (again MY opinion) upward movement for us PAs that is until we hit the glass ceiling again because we aren't physicians. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Dr Danielsen said on the huddle that ATSU could be done in 80 weeks:https://huddle.aapa.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?GroupId=31&MessageKey=affa9dab-103b-4ec2-91c5-a0256bacb2cb&CommunityKey=e54b07fe-0e40-4c0c-a8e4-25d744d979b5&tab=digestviewer&ReturnUrl=%2fbrowse%2fallrecentposts Ahh gotcha. Dr. Danielsen is a great PA educator and advocate by the way. He is the dean of the PA school at ATSU and I got to chat with him some at my graduation. I was actually looking forward to ATSU's DMS program (heard about plans for it from a professor about 4 years ago) but I wished it went more the LMU route. But ATSU has top notch professors/faculty and Linda Wheeler (manager of the PA programs) is an awesome person and the whole school was very much interested in the success of their students. I had to take a sabbatical for health reasons during my MS program but they made a way for me to graduate on time. Anyway I digress... At least we have a bunch of options for those so inclined to get a Doctorate. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Joelseff said: Ahh gotcha. Dr. Danielsen is a great PA educator and advocate by the way. He is the dean of the PA school at ATSU and I gut to chat with him some at my graduation. I was actually looking forward to ATSU's DMS program (heard about plans for it from a professor about 4 years ago) but I wished it went more the LMU route. But at least we have a bj ch of options for those so inclined to get a Doctorate. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk probably more options every year. I heard nebraska and others are working on bridge programs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 probably more options every year. I heard nebraska and others are working on bridge programs too.Now you're talking E! A VIABLE bridge program would be ideal! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Joelseff said: Now you're talking E! A VIABLE bridge program would be ideal! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Yeah, one class, $2500, and a doctorate due to credit given by all of our extensive previous education. I think EMEDPA should start his own university and do just that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Yeah, one class, $2500, and a doctorate due to credit given by all of our extensive previous education. I think EMEDPA should start his own university and do just that!Yes! Do this E! And... Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 Don't think it will get much shorter than a year of coursework and a research project. I think within 10 years most entry-level PA programs will be taught at the doctoral level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 "Dear healthcare provider, As a result of the change in professional title requested for years by your state professional organization, and recently approved by us, your friendly state medical board; we are going to require you to complete an approved bridge program that corresponds to the new professional title since we can no longer accept licensure applications/renewals from providers listed under the previous professional title, "Physician Assistant", whose degree states some variant of same. We have worked diligently with your local universities who have agreed to assist us with this new bridge requirement, and as a result of this mandated change, they have agreed to do so at the discounted rate of $10K over the next twelve months (prices will increase to $15K after this courtesy grace period). In an attempt to respect the time you spend providing quality healthcare to our residents, we have limited the amount of time required to complete this task. At present time we are mandating completion of a one hour multiple choice, open book test, to complete this requirement, or else you may watch one episode of Grey's Anatomy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 Alternatively, you may review and comment on the following threads on the PA/MP forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted November 10, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2018 Any word on Nebraska? Already have a masters from them so would be logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/10/2018 at 10:27 AM, EMEDPA said: Lynchburg. 1 year. Clinical credit arranged through your current work experience. The current president of the AAPA was in the first class at Lynchburg, as were many well-known PAs. Tuition:$23,589 complete program Ouch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 12, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, sas5814 said: Tuition:$23,589 complete program Ouch.... a lot of the alternatives(DHSc, DrPH, PhD) are > 40k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 9 hours ago, EMEDPA said: a lot of the alternatives(DHSc, DrPH, PhD) are > 40k. Guess I got used to the Army paying for mine. :-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 12, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, sas5814 said: Guess I got used to the Army paying for mine. :-0 mine will pay for itself in 18 months. everything after that is gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenspac Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I literally cant afford this lol. I cant even afford to go back to get my masters and now we gonna push for useless alphabets. im so tired of this, i was born 40 years too late. I just wanted to treat patients. If I had any usable skill outside of medicine I'd quit today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted November 13, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted November 13, 2018 ravenspac - fear not - it will get better after every new grad PA is a Doctorate level and the politicians get the silly regulations out of medicine.... course that might take another decade.... I have AAS, MS and will get likely get a DMS(in PA /medicine) - And a BA and MBA as well.... yep it is a lot - but worth it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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