Are there any PA schools that focus on the latter half of your undergrad?

[J.J.]

Just what the topic asks. Does anybody know if there are any PA schools in particular that focus on, say, the last two years of your undergrad as opposed to looking at your cumulative GPA? I know many med schools do this, because it seems to be a general rule that most students don't do so hot in their first years.

 

 

Also, I notice that a lot of schools want around a 3.0 GPA when applying. I'm a Canadian student so I was wondering what the GPA conversion would be. Over here in Canada on a 4.0 scale, a 70-72% is considered a B- and is weighed as a 2.7. So if someone had a GPA around that (a B-), what are their chances to get into an American PA school? Thanks guys!

[crystaltide]

Search the forum for "last 60 credits"...or last 45...or last 30...that should turn up quite a few threads talking about schools weighting the last few courses more heavily.

 

As far as Canadian vs US grading scales, I'm not sure. You may want to contact CASPA or WES regarding how the grades will translate.

[GatorRRT]

Check out the CASPA FAQs in regards to the GPA calculation. It looks like your school uses the same scale as CASPA, so there probably won't be a change in your GPA; of course call them and double check, since you're technically an international student. As for getting in with a 2.7 GPA, your chances are slim unless you have substantial health care experience. Some schools will consider students with an upward GPA trend if they don't have a 3.0, but with how competitive PA school admission has become, I'd recommend getting your GPA up to a 3.0 both overall and science.

[J.J.]

Yeah I couldn't find it in their FAQ's so I quickly shot them an e-mail. But, again, a 2.7 might just be different between the two of us so I just want to know what the conversion is because as far as I know I may actually be a competitive candidate (a 2.7 GPA might translate to, say, a 3.0 or something. Not necessarily, but here's to hoping ;)) haha

[sartort]

A B- is a 2.7 on CASPA, but at my school a B- is between a 80-82.5%. A 70-72% is a C-, which isn't acceptable for graduation in my major.

[sdolan1228]

My overall GPA was a 2.94. (freshman year GPA was horrible) My science GPA was a 3.49. The last 50 or so credits was a 3.57. I was accepted to Franklin Pierce in NH. I think they focus on the last 60 credits.

[J.J.]

That's likely because you're American. Its a different system/curriculum here in Canada. A B- in Canada is a 70. An 80 is an A-. But I emailed CASPA and they replied this morning telling me that there definitely is a Canadian to American GPA conversion and then continued asking what school I went to, so I told them and they said they would convert it for me.

[J.J.]

When you guys say last 60 credits, do you mean your last 60 courses? In Canadian universities each school weighs a course as a different number of credits (For example, I go to the University of Toronto where each course weighs 0.5 credits, but other schools weigh their courses as 1 credit each, and other schools like York do something like each class is 8 credits).

[Contrarian]

Don't know the answer to your question, but my initial thought is:

 

Why would they, when you consider that they have more "qualified" applicants than they know what to do with...???

With 20 applicants per available seat... and them simply looking for ways to "thin the heard" and wittle the number down to a manageable size, why would they simply ignore poor grades...???

 

The significant surplus of applicants allows them to be particularly selective.

 

Just a few thoughts...

 

Good Luck..!!!

[J.J.]

Lol I realize that its competitive, I just want to know what my actual statistics are, and if I should even bother sending an application (application fees are not inexpensive). Regardless, I just got an e-mail from CASPA that says this:

Please use the following grade conversion for your coursework from the

University of Toronto:

 

90-100 A+

85-89 A

80-84 A-

77-79 B+

73-76 B

70-72 B-

67-69 C+

63-66 C

60-62 C-

57-59 D+

53-56 D

50-52 D-

< 49 F

So based on this, when PA schools say they want around a 3.0 GPA, what American letter grade are we talking?

[crystaltide]

A = 4.0, a- = 3.7, b+ = 3.3, b = 3.0

[mktalon]

Don't know the answer to your question, but my initial thought is:

 

Why would they, when you consider that they have more "qualified" applicants than they know what to do with...???

With 20 applicants per available seat... and them simply looking for ways to "thin the heard" and wittle the number down to a manageable size, why would they simply ignore poor grades...???

 

The significant surplus of applicants allows them to be particularly selective.

 

Just a few thoughts...

 

Good Luck..!!!

I came to realize that there might be some really high quality applicants hidden in that pool of people with lower initial GPA's but fought hard to bring them up. For instance, if you had a bunch of applicants with high grades but 300 hours HCE or none at all, and then an applicant comes along who had been a paramedic for 10 years and then an RN for 10 more years, but their GPA was low for the first year of college.... wouldn't you want the opportunity to look at that applicant?

[ToppDog]

I came to realize that there might be some really high quality applicants hidden in that pool of people with lower initial GPA's but fought hard to bring them up. For instance, if you had a bunch of applicants with high grades but 300 hours HCE or none at all, and then an applicant comes along who had been a paramedic for 10 years and then an RN for 10 more years, but their GPA was low for the first year of college.... wouldn't you want the opportunity to look at that applicant?

 

Many will for that exact reason - there is significant HCE there that might offset a not so stellar GPA. Some schools look at the entire package, or how the more recent grades were in comparison to older ones. However, if you're applying with minimal or no HCE, then the school is limited on the tools they have to weed out applicants, which is what I think he was pointing out. My advise to the OP would be to get some quality HCE done to be a more rounded applicant for the schools that look at the bigger picture. Good Luck!

[acozadd]

Lol I realize that its competitive, I just want to know what my actual statistics are, and if I should even bother sending an application (application fees are not inexpensive). Regardless, I just got an e-mail from CASPA that says this:

Please use the following grade conversion for your coursework from the

University of Toronto:

 

90-100 A+

85-89 A

80-84 A-

77-79 B+

73-76 B

70-72 B-

67-69 C+

63-66 C

60-62 C-

57-59 D+

53-56 D

50-52 D-

< 49 F

So based on this, when PA schools say they want around a 3.0 GPA, what American letter grade are we talking?

 

LOL at that scale.

 

I wish I went to a school where a 90% is considered an A+...

[J.J.]

LOL at that scale.

 

I wish I went to a school where a 90% is considered an A+...

 

Every school in Canada is graded that way, i'm not 100% sure but all throughout my school life teachers/university professors have said that the scale is that way because Canadian education is a bit more grilling than American. I've attended institutions at both and I definitely thought it was harder in Canada, but who knows. But if true, the scales do make sense then.

 

But yeah, I do have a lot of volunteer hours with a few different physicians across Toronto, which will definitely help.

[acozadd]

Every school in Canada is graded that way, i'm not 100% sure but all throughout my school life teachers/university professors have said that the scale is that way because Canadian education is a bit more grilling than American. I've attended institutions at both and I definitely thought it was harder in Canada, but who knows. But if true, the scales do make sense then.

 

But yeah, I do have a lot of volunteer hours with a few different physicians across Toronto, which will definitely help.

 

IMO- if someone can get 40% of questions wrong and be considered "average," someone is doing something wrong, whether it is the student, professor, or just the system in general.

[vaston]

the next post will probably explain how canadian schools are harder than the US. could be true for all i know.

 

Harder.........OR...........EEEEEEEASIER...................dun dun duuuuuunnnnnnnnnn. O.o (shifty eyes) ¬_¬

 

[rev ronin]

IMO- if someone can get 40% of questions wrong and be considered "average," someone is doing something wrong, whether it is the student, professor, or just the system in general.

Not really. A 60% raw correct score is passing on the PANCE, is it not? It really depends on how things are set up. I took an online cultural anthropology course at a community college where all the points were essentially participation points--the quizzes, such as they were, were all open book, and we got a ton of points for participating in discussions of the required reading. Yeah, I got an A... but it was a meaningless A.

[acozadd]

Not really. A 60% raw correct score is passing on the PANCE, is it not? It really depends on how things are set up. I took an online cultural anthropology course at a community college where all the points were essentially participation points--the quizzes, such as they were, were all open book, and we got a ton of points for participating in discussions of the required reading. Yeah, I got an A... but it was a meaningless A.

 

If the average physician of PA had a grasp on 60% of the relevent material and literature for their field, they would be seriously harming many patients on a daily basis.

[rev ronin]

If the average physician of PA had a grasp on 60% of the relevent material and literature for their field, they would be seriously harming many patients on a daily basis.

If a PA had a grasp of 60% of the relevant material an literature in his or her field, he or she should be an attending, not a PA. 60% of medicine is not the same thing as 60% of the content tested for by the PANCE/PANRE.

[acozadd]

If a PA had a grasp of 60% of the relevant material an literature in his or her field, he or she should be an attending, not a PA. 60% of medicine is not the same thing as 60% of the content tested for by the PANCE/PANRE.

 

You get my point. "Dr. _____, you got 90% of that surgical case correct, you just failed to properly insert _____ which led to a fatal hemorrhage. A+ work!"

[rev ronin]

You get my point. "Dr. _____, you got 90% of that surgical case correct, you just failed to properly insert _____ which led to a fatal hemorrhage. A+ work!"

Well, yeah, but we're using differing semantics here. The "body of knowledge" for medicine is HUGE, and that is really what's tested in the PANCE, such that anyone who mastered ALL of it or even came close would be brilliantly amazing. The domain-specific knowledge of a specific surgical technique--or any other specific treatment regimen--is rightly expected to be much higher in a specialist. But the PANCE (which is the context in which I made my original statement) tests broad knowledge, not in-depth particulars in a specialist's field.

 

Whether either broad topic knowledge or specific procedure knowledge is at all relevant to grading scales, however, is an open question.

[acozadd]

Well, yeah, but we're using differing semantics here. The "body of knowledge" for medicine is HUGE, and that is really what's tested in the PANCE, such that anyone who mastered ALL of it or even came close would be brilliantly amazing. The domain-specific knowledge of a specific surgical technique--or any other specific treatment regimen--is rightly expected to be much higher in a specialist. But the PANCE (which is the context in which I made my original statement) tests broad knowledge, not in-depth particulars in a specialist's field.

 

Whether either broad topic knowledge or specific procedure knowledge is at all relevant to grading scales, however, is an open question.

 

I think we've gotten away from the premise of my original post now, which was to say that if 60% in a given class with a finite number of expectations is considered "average," then either 1) the students aren't doing their part in studying and learning the material 2) the professor is doing a poor job of presenting and teaching the material or 3) The system is just flawed. If there is that great of a disconnect beween professors and students on expectations... no thanks. I wasn't trying to talk about any 1 particular exam (PANCE), but an education system in general (canada vs. US in this case).