Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 10, 2019 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2019 This is a change. They used to accept panre scores over a certain % and good gpa in lieu of the mcat. I would call them, explain your situation, and ask for their direction. Alternatively, take the SAT now as it is certainly easier to study for then the mcat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Believe said: Wow, that is a load of crap. Did they give reasoning for this? Last time i checked, you are paying tuition just like the other medical students and shouldn't have to deal with that. That's a big turnoff given the amount of work/paperwork it takes to rotate somewhere. That is exactly what I said. "I'm paying the same tuition as everyone else, why am I at the bottom of the list for rotation placement?" The reasoning is that I complete a doctorate level degree in 3 years that normally takes 4 years so my 4th year of medical school is viewed as a scholarship for about 55k (tuition plus living expenses for one year). Therefore, I am responsible for finding potential rotation spots, calling office managers, filling out paper work, and securing the site. It's not exactly ideal for board studying. They also gave us a list of APAP preceptors but it seems like most of the ones in the Erie/Pittsburgh area are LECOM affiliated so once again my classmates get precedence over me for those spots and I have to wait until March/April to figure out if I can rotate with those preceptors. Edited February 10, 2019 by CVTSPA spelling error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 6 hours ago, MT2PA said: When you add this information to the restrictions on specialties...it's a wonder anyone applies/attends. I'd rather jump through a few extra hoops and just attend a traditional med school, especially when 3 yr programs are popping up. If you have already completed the prerequisites for traditional 4 year medical school programs, it's probably in your best interest to go to one of those schools if you get into one them especially if it's a school with cheaper tuition than LECOM (ex. some schools in Texas). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 4 hours ago, EMEDPA said: This is a change. They used to accept panre scores over a certain % and good gpa in lieu of the mcat. I would call them, explain your situation, and ask for their direction. Alternatively, take the SAT now as it is certainly easier to study for then the mcat... Completely agree with this. Give LECOM a call and see if they would take the PANCE/PANRE in lieu of the ACT/SAT. They may be willing to work with you if you never took the ACT/SAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 10, 2019 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2019 Until another option comes along for working PAs, this is the best show in town right now. A bridge in my mind must: be shorter than a typical program not require the mcat cost less than a typical program allow one the chance to potentially match to any specialty. Lecom does all these things. Could they do them better? sure. Could they arrange all of the rotation sites and offer other branch campuses to make the program attractive to more applicants? sure. Could they figure out a way to shorten the program even more? likely. If they had a branch campus on the west coast I would probably still attend and I will be 50 in a few months. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriarMedic Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 What’s the day to day schedule like here? That’s something to keep in mind. Are they condensing Didactic into less time and eliminating any breaks? At my 4 year program my schedule is such that I can work most weekends still because I have time to get my studying done at home during the week (class 8-12 most days ). Summer off between m1-m2 and small break between m2-m3 to refill the piggy bank and reportedly ample time in 4th year. Certainly something to consider if you’re older or have family to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 11, 2019 Moderator Share Posted February 11, 2019 I know some members of the first class were able to work a bit. Probably not as much as you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 16 hours ago, FriarMedic said: What’s the day to day schedule like here? That’s something to keep in mind. Are they condensing Didactic into less time and eliminating any breaks? At my 4 year program my schedule is such that I can work most weekends still because I have time to get my studying done at home during the week (class 8-12 most days ). Summer off between m1-m2 and small break between m2-m3 to refill the piggy bank and reportedly ample time in 4th year. Certainly something to consider if you’re older or have family to support. I wish I was only in class in the mornings 4 hours a day! There are three pathways: Lecture-Discussion Pathway (LDP), Problem based learning (PBL), and dependent study pathway (DSP). I am in the LDP pathway which is mostly classroom learning so I can only speak from that perspective. First year, I was in class from 8am to 5:30PM most days with the occasional day ending at 3:30 PM or starting late at 9AM. In second year, I'm essentially in class 25 to 40 hours a week with a random 8 hour pelvic exam course on one weekend day. They purposefully fill up all your time so you always have something new to learn (that isn't necessarily important for taking the USMLE or COMLEX). Usually an exam every Monday with a potential for a random lab practical or lecture quiz every week or every other week. Working a job, let alone finding a job to match your ever changing class schedule (seriously, they change the class schedule weekly) is very difficult without sacrificing your grades or board study time. There is one nurse in my class (LDP) who works 15-20 hours a week and you can literally see the exhaustion on his face and how much he has aged in the last two years. Don't think he is doing great in school. Even if you do they other pathways, PBL and DSP, there is still a requirement to show up for probably about 10-20 hours worth of classroom learning each week in addition to your course load for the semester (completed on your own fyi) and board studying. There is a big problem with random gaps in the day with LDP. For example, a one hour class in the morning followed by a two to three hour break then 3 hours of class in the afternoon. The breaks are usually not even in the schedule, the lecturers will just finish early sometimes and say, "Take an early lunch! See you in the afternoon!" It happens usually at least once or twice a week. Very aggravating. For APAP, there are essentially no breaks. You get a week off the summer between first and second year and 1 week of independent board study time between second and third year (most people just take their boards that week). Problem with APAP is that during that week between second and third year, they schedule you for a 2 day History and Physical Course (8-10 hour days) to prepare you for Level 2 usually before or slightly after you just completed level 1 (within days). Winter break is usually 2 weeks though. The curriculum overall is not very conducive to free time or flexibility.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer_dancer01 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Wow that sounds brutal! Nothing worse than not really knowing your schedule from week to week. If I am not mistaken it looks like moving forward the APAP students will only be able to do PBL pathway and only be at one campus. I wonder how that will look. I was looking into doing this program (as I would like to be in anesthesia) but having to set up my own clinical sites is just lazy on their part. But the benefit of not having to take the MCAT or any other pre-recs as they have been a few years is still quite appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSpectre Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 On 2/10/2019 at 5:27 PM, CVTSPA said: That is exactly what I said. "I'm paying the same tuition as everyone else, why am I at the bottom of the list for rotation placement?" The reasoning is that I complete a doctorate level degree in 3 years that normally takes 4 years so my 4th year of medical school is viewed as a scholarship for about 55k (tuition plus living expenses for one year). Therefore, I am responsible for finding potential rotation spots, calling office managers, filling out paper work, and securing the site. It's not exactly ideal for board studying. They also gave us a list of APAP preceptors but it seems like most of the ones in the Erie/Pittsburgh area are LECOM affiliated so once again my classmates get precedence over me for those spots and I have to wait until March/April to figure out if I can rotate with those preceptors. That sucks man. I understand their argument about the program being shorter and therefore the 4th year off counting as a 55K scholarship, but I still call bullshit. They are using that as a cop-out to not provide a service they provide every other student, and should provide you as well. There are about a dozen traditional med schools that have 3 year curriculums (the vast majority are designed to match primary care physicians as well), but to my knowledge none of them dump the task of finding rotations on the students in that tract. Also, why a school would provide so little time to study for the boards is beyond me. In my opinion, this all looks pretty poor for LECOM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 6 hours ago, lancer_dancer01 said: Wow that sounds brutal! Nothing worse than not really knowing your schedule from week to week. If I am not mistaken it looks like moving forward the APAP students will only be able to do PBL pathway and only be at one campus. I wonder how that will look. I was looking into doing this program (as I would like to be in anesthesia) but having to set up my own clinical sites is just lazy on their part. But the benefit of not having to take the MCAT or any other pre-recs as they have been a few years is still quite appealing. Yep, the recently eliminated the other pathways for the APAP program and now you can only do PBL at the Seton Hill campus. My understanding from people I've talked to is the the Seton Hill campus is a more friendly environment but I obviously don't know since I've only been at the Erie campus. The PBL pathway is supposedly decent at Seton Hill but I've heard that the one at the Florida campus is ideal (not an option for APAP). Don't let my words discourage you if you want to do anesthesia! Anesthesia is DO friendly and you don't need high boards scores to match, especially if you are willing to go almost anywhere. The LECOM APAP program is still the best deal in town for PA's going back to medical school for the reasons you mentioned (no MCAT, less rigorous class requirements, one less year, etc). I still don't regret my decision to go back to medical school based on my personal situation. I just want people going into the program to understand some of the pitfalls before they get there because no one warned me about setting up my own rotations, needing to be in class during finals week for a mandated lecture on financial management, the fact that there is this obsessive compulsive need to have you in the classroom as much as possible, needing to do an 8 hour class on pelvic exams on a randomly assigned Saturday, needing to take a preclinical review class with mandatory attendance during "dedicated board study time" instead of just letting me do my own thing like most other medical schools, having 4 hours of OPP lectures/lab every week even this semester when I'm focused on board studies, etc. Most rotation sites I call inquiring about needing a rotation gives me the same response, "Normally, the school does this. Why are you calling us?" But the fact of the matter is that they need to place you in a site if you do not fill all the rotation slots otherwise the school looks bad in the eyes of the AOA. So they will eventually give you rotations in an untimely fashion (April of 2nd year with rotations starting in May of 2nd year).... but they will probably end up being in Erie, PA if you don't set them up yourself (which is fine with me because I only care about where I do my two anesthesia rotations). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, ProSpectre said: That sucks man. I understand their argument about the program being shorter and therefore the 4th year off counting as a 55K scholarship, but I still call bullshit. They are using that as a cop-out to not provide a service they provide every other student, and should provide you as well. There are about a dozen traditional med schools that have 3 year curriculums (the vast majority are designed to match primary care physicians as well), but to my knowledge none of them dump the task of finding rotations on the students in that tract. Also, why a school would provide so little time to study for the boards is beyond me. In my opinion, this all looks pretty poor for LECOM. Yep, the former PA med students are usually among the best students in the class, shouldn't they want to show us off to clinical sites to build a better reputation for the school? If the now 6-7 APAP students left in my class year are causing that much of a problem with taking other LECOM students' rotation sites than there must be a bigger problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyPADO Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Former APAP graduate in a competitive specialty.. It is an advantage to schedule your own rotations. Also, being PAs in a previous career gives us an edge in maturity and time management skills. If you score poorly on the boards due to lack of preparation, that’s your own mismanagement of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedStudent898989 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 On 2/10/2019 at 6:27 PM, CVTSPA said: That is exactly what I said. "I'm paying the same tuition as everyone else, why am I at the bottom of the list for rotation placement?" The reasoning is that I complete a doctorate level degree in 3 years that normally takes 4 years so my 4th year of medical school is viewed as a scholarship for about 55k (tuition plus living expenses for one year). Therefore, I am responsible for finding potential rotation spots, calling office managers, filling out paper work, and securing the site. It's not exactly ideal for board studying. They also gave us a list of APAP preceptors but it seems like most of the ones in the Erie/Pittsburgh area are LECOM affiliated so once again my classmates get precedence over me for those spots and I have to wait until March/April to figure out if I can rotate with those preceptors. I am just so sorry you have to go through this while you're studying for Step 1. The logistics of clinicals (ex. moving hospitals every 4-6 weeks, finding short-term lease agreements, figuring out hospital parking, EMR access etc.) have been such a headache this year, I can't imagine having to deal with even more work on the front end. Good luck on your boards!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTURedRaider Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 On 2/7/2019 at 4:07 PM, RachaelG said: Curious, what was your decision! Considering going APAP bridge myself I'm going to attend Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine in Fort Worth (where I currently live). Turned down my LECOM seat after all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 hours ago, TTURedRaider said: I'm going to attend Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine in Fort Worth (where I currently live). Turned down my LECOM seat after all. Do they still call it TCOM? I thought UNT took over that program... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyVetDude Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, TTURedRaider said: I'm going to attend Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine in Fort Worth (where I currently live). Turned down my LECOM seat after all. you made a much wiser choice. You will be closer to home and have more options down the road Moreover, you will have more time to absorb and understand school materials, enjoy yourself during the breaks and have opportunity to do per-diem to help pay for tuition and room and board. Edited February 15, 2019 by ArmyVetDude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTURedRaider Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 2/14/2019 at 9:39 PM, ArmyVetDude said: you made a much wiser choice. You will be closer to home and have more options down the road Moreover, you will have more time to absorb and understand school materials, enjoy yourself during the breaks and have opportunity to do per-diem to help pay for tuition and room and board. Absolutely! There were many reasons why I felt TCOM was the right choice for me and my family. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTURedRaider Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 2/14/2019 at 9:32 PM, Cideous said: Do they still call it TCOM? I thought UNT took over that program... It's UNT Health Science Center but the medical school is still referred to as TCOM and is listed as such on their home page. I actually graduated from the PA school at UNTHSC in 2013. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertapac Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 How does LECOM designate what "pathway"(ex. LBP) each student is to take? Is it randomly assigned? Do the students select? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfw6er Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 In the past, during your interview they'd give a brief run-down on the 3 pathways and ask you to fill in which campus/pathway you want if accepted (Erie or Seton Hill). Now that it's only Seton Hill campus for APAP and the SH campus only offers PBL, it's a moot point if you're applying to the APAP program. That being said.....there are a few cases here and there where a person didn't get an APAP slot because the slots filled up prior to their interview and the school has instead offered the applicant a slot in the PHCS (primary health care scholars) pathway....it's also 3 years and you're contractually obligated to seek a primary care residency and work in primary care after residency. I have no idea how often this has happened in the past, just was told it's happened occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertapac Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Thank u so very much!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuous woman Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 On 2/10/2019 at 6:32 PM, FriarMedic said: What’s the day to day schedule like here? That’s something to keep in mind. Are they condensing Didactic into less time and eliminating any breaks? At my 4 year program my schedule is such that I can work most weekends still because I have time to get my studying done at home during the week (class 8-12 most days ). Summer off between m1-m2 and small break between m2-m3 to refill the piggy bank and reportedly ample time in 4th year. Certainly something to consider if you’re older or have family to support. Which school do you go to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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