TTURedRaider Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Any former/current Lecom students on here that know what specialties the last few classes of "undeclared" APAP graduates have matched to? I can't find this info anywhere and haven't had any luck when reaching out directly to the school. The admissions office was only able to provide the hospitals they matched to but not the specialty. I've also called Dr. Kauffman several times and have been unable to reach him. Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 This level of non-communicativity might be a bad sign. It would be a dealbreaker for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTURedRaider Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 Ya, I'm debating on whether to accept this seat vs. staying in Texas and attending a 4 year program instead. But I agree, it's kind of ridiculous that it's so hard to find anything out from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 This will end up being a quasi-useless response but SOMEWHERE in the past 3-6 months I ran across one of the 800 posts on here regarding bridge programs etc. which actually detailed out the matching for LECOM I thought. I guess they say that hope is the greatest gift of all right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTURedRaider Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 They actually finally got back to me. They said out of the 12 students that graduated the APAP program last year, they had students match into EM, Anesthesiology, FM, Ortho, Dermatology, Internal Medicine, General Surgery and Radiology. Quite an impressive list actually! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyVetDude Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) I think if you are under 40 years old and get into Rad, ortho, derm or other high paying specialties DO/MD >>>>>>>>>> PA. However, going into primary care can be a very costly path and could cause serious buyer;s remorse. It is especially not worth it for some women looking to have 2+ children or older PA's who want to work less than 20 years. You would have about $600,000 to $1,000,000 loss of total income by the time you are done with med school and residency. With a compound interest adding up on a student loan from residency on, it would take about 8 to 12 years of full-time work to break even as a PCP. If you open up a clinic that does not make a lot of money or if you plan to work part time (ie maternity leave) it could even take longer (maybe 20 years) to break even. As you can see, it is not worth it for women wanting kids and take some time off or old farts who want to retire within next 15 years. On the other hand, if you do any surgical or high paying specialties you would have no trouble paying off loans and generating net plus very quickly. In that care, PA to DO/MD should be definitely pursued. Also, If you are a young male PA that do not mind working hard, this path would be definitely worth it. I know money is not everything but losing up to $1 million and much free time just to practice primary care... is it worth it? Edited November 4, 2018 by ArmyVetDude 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCPA Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) On 11/2/2018 at 11:40 AM, TTURedRaider said: They actually finally got back to me. They said out of the 12 students that graduated the APAP program last year, they had students match into EM, Anesthesiology, FM, Ortho, Dermatology, Internal Medicine, General Surgery and Radiology. Quite an impressive list actually! MAybe i'm misunderstanding but out of the 12 seats per class are not 6 designated FM only and the other six "undeclared" ? Look like there are 7 specialties outside of FM listed there... Edited November 4, 2018 by SCPA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAtoMD Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 43 minutes ago, SCPA said: MAybe i'm misunderstanding but out of the 12 seats per class are not 6 designated FM only and the other six "undeclared" ? Look like there are 7 specialties outside of FM listed there... I thought it was 6 had to go either women’s health, FM, IM or peds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 4, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, PAsPreMed said: I thought it was 6 had to go either women’s health, FM, IM or peds. That is my understanding as well, so from that list FM and IM count, leaving six Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTURedRaider Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 11 hours ago, SCPA said: MAybe i'm misunderstanding but out of the 12 seats per class are not 6 designated FM only and the other six "undeclared" ? Look like there are 7 specialties outside of FM listed there... The 6 "primary care" students have to do either FM, IM, Peds, or OB. The 6 "undeclared" can do anything they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachaelG Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Curious, what was your decision! Considering going APAP bridge myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 On 11/2/2018 at 11:40 AM, TTURedRaider said: They actually finally got back to me. They said out of the 12 students that graduated the APAP program last year, they had students match into EM, Anesthesiology, FM, Ortho, Dermatology, Internal Medicine, General Surgery and Radiology. Quite an impressive list actually! Current APAP second year here. Yep. Agree with this list. EM is a popular choice for the APAP students. It seems like most people go for EM since it's only three years for residency, pretty good pay, and relatively DO friendly. The next most common specialty for APAPers is anesthesiology for similar reasons (4 year residency though). Then it is usually a mix of radiology, surgery, orthopedics, internal medicine, and family medicine. One person tried matched cardiothoracic surgery but was unsuccessful with really high board scores(Gen surgery intern year now). Another tried matching interventional radiology (also high board scores and lots of interviews) and was unsuccessful and is now doing a traditional rotating intern year. I've had similar problems getting a list of what specialties APAPers have matched in over the last couple years so most of my info comes from talking to people in my class and those above me. There is only one person from APAP that I know of that matched dermatology and my understanding was that she had worked in dermatology for a while prior to medical school so likely had a huge advantage. The person who matched ortho this past year ended up at Millcreek Hospital which is LECOM's community hospital in Erie, PA. They have a strong preference for taking LECOM students to begin with. Six spots of the 12 APAP seats are reserved for primary care (Ob/gyn, FM, IM, and peds). However, there was a problem with people "accidentally" matching into specialties outside of primary care so they enacted basically a fine of one year of tuition (about $33k) for people who matched outside of a primary care specialty (so you keep your residency match, pay the fine, and start on schedule). But that wasn't enough of a deterrent so they just enacted a policy last year that basically pulls you from the match if you try to match outside of primary care and makes you complete a fourth year of medical school before entering the match again which I think is a much stronger deterrent. From my understanding, if you are pulled from the match that is a huge red flag for when you apply for residency the next go around. The reason they care so much about matching people into primary care is that the AOA approved the program based on the premise that it would increase primary care physicians so if no one is going into primary care, the APAP program could lose accreditation. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 ^^^ OUCH! Thanks for the honest accounting! That will help a lot of people here I believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 9, 2019 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2019 how do they feel about dual residencies, say FP/EM or EM/PEDS or EM/IM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAtoMD Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 3 hours ago, EMEDPA said: how do they feel about dual residencies, say FP/EM or EM/PEDS or EM/IM? Correct me if I’m wrong, can’t an BC ER physician work in an outpatient setting. I know they can do UC but I think I remember reading they can run their own clinic as well. Also from what I’ve read on Reddit. For Pediatric ER they like to see their respective residency with the other in fellowship form. I’ve read stuff about the ER/IM stuff on Reddit but it has sense left my brain. I thought it would be cool cause of the Implications on becoming an intensivist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 10, 2019 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2019 anyone who passes usmle steps 1-3 and completes a residency in anything gets a medical license and can open their own practice. Many EM docs do UC later in their careers. There are a few ways to do peds em: 1. do peds residency, then do em residency or vis versa 2. do em residency then peds em fellowship 3. do peds residency then peds em fellowship the advantage of em/im used to be that this allowed the em physician to then do a critical care fellowship(which were only open to grads of IM, anesthesiology, and surgery). recently several fellowships decided to accept em residency grads and the critical care board allows them to take the specialty board exam. For the truly dedicated, there is a 6 yr EM/IM/critical care residency option out there. it is 6 yrs long. I always though FP/EM would be the way to go. several of my friends have done this. work early in your career mostly in em, then slow down a bit and do some fp clinic or fp residency teaching or work as a hospitalist, etc. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Current APAP second year here. Yep. Agree with this list. EM is a popular choice for the APAP students... Hahaha.gifYeah. I ain't spending a fourth year in med school. What a joke. I understand there's a shortage of FP, but there's a shortage of plenty of specialties.Plus, my education and experience as a PA is worth more than 3 years already. Realistically, clinicals should be optional, just close the education gap (and we can forget all the fluff later). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 16 hours ago, Cideous said: ^^^ OUCH! Thanks for the honest accounting! That will help a lot of people here I believe. There was a lot that I didn't know about the APAP program before I started. Something else worth mentioning is that they require the APAP students to set up all their own rotations (13 of them) for the third year and you do not have the ability to set up rotations at LECOM sites until March/April when everyone else has been placed already. So for someone like me looking to stay in the Erie/Pittsburgh area, I have to wait until March/April before LECOM will help me get a rotation site at a LECOM affiliated site. Thus, I have only a few rotations set up and don't know where I'll be in 3 months but the non-APAP medical students have known where they will be for the last few months already. And all this rotation setting up on my part is done while I'm supposed to be studying for boards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 14 hours ago, EMEDPA said: how do they feel about dual residencies, say FP/EM or EM/PEDS or EM/IM? Dual residencies that include something other than a primary care specialty are not allowed. The agreement is that you do primary care (and only primary care) for 5 years after finishing residency before you pursue a different specialty. I don't know how or if they can actually enforce that. For example, if you match internal med then do an internal med residency, can they pull your medical degree from you if you then pursue a GI fellowship subsequently within 5 years? I have no idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believe Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, CVTSPA said: There was a lot that I didn't know about the APAP program before I started. Something else worth mentioning is that they require the APAP students to set up all their own rotations (13 of them) for the third year and you do not have the ability to set up rotations at LECOM sites until March/April when everyone else has been placed already. So for someone like me looking to stay in the Erie/Pittsburgh area, I have to wait until March/April before LECOM will help me get a rotation site at a LECOM affiliated site. Thus, I have only a few rotations set up and don't know where I'll be in 3 months but the non-APAP medical students have known where they will be for the last few months already. And all this rotation setting up on my part is done while I'm supposed to be studying for boards... Wow, that is a load of crap. Did they give reasoning for this? Last time i checked, you are paying tuition just like the other medical students and shouldn't have to deal with that. That's a big turnoff given the amount of work/paperwork it takes to rotate somewhere. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT2PA Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 3 hours ago, CVTSPA said: There was a lot that I didn't know about the APAP program before I started. Something else worth mentioning is that they require the APAP students to set up all their own rotations (13 of them) for the third year and you do not have the ability to set up rotations at LECOM sites until March/April when everyone else has been placed already. So for someone like me looking to stay in the Erie/Pittsburgh area, I have to wait until March/April before LECOM will help me get a rotation site at a LECOM affiliated site. Thus, I have only a few rotations set up and don't know where I'll be in 3 months but the non-APAP medical students have known where they will be for the last few months already. And all this rotation setting up on my part is done while I'm supposed to be studying for boards... When you add this information to the restrictions on specialties...it's a wonder anyone applies/attends. I'd rather jump through a few extra hoops and just attend a traditional med school, especially when 3 yr programs are popping up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 10, 2019 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, MT2PA said: When you add this information to the restrictions on specialties...it's a wonder anyone applies/attends. I'd rather jump through a few extra hoops and just attend a traditional med school, especially when 3 yr programs are popping up. not having to take the MCAT and 25% off tuition is a big incentive to apply to apap, especially if interested in a non-competitive specialty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Not having to take the MCAT...IF you took the ACT/SAT back in the day. Which being a young dumb screw up I didn't. As such, I'd have to take the MCAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 10, 2019 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2019 21 minutes ago, MediMike said: Not having to take the MCAT...IF you took the ACT/SAT back in the day. Which being a young dumb screw up I didn't. As such, I'd have to take the MCAT. they also can base it on your pance/panre scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Doesn't look like it. They take a composite of either your ACT/SAT scores plus your overall GPA. Unless there's some backdoor route that's not mentioned on their website. If that is true I'm going to be rather upset as I based a fairly large decision on my lack of desire to take the MCAT. "Have obtained a minimum of 23 on the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) taken January, 2015 or prior, or scored in the 40th percentile or higher on the MCAT taken after January, 2015.* *Recognizing that alternative measures can be used to demonstrate the ability to handle challenging curriculum and that GPA is more predictive of successful completion of medical school, we consider the LECOM Academic Index Score (AIS) as an alternative for outstanding applicants who have not taken the MCAT. The AIS uses the overall total for undergraduate and graduate GPA in formula calculation with ACT and/or SAT Critical Reading and Math scores in consideration of offering interviews. A minimum AIS of 110 is required." https://lecom.edu/academics/the-college-of-medicine/accelerated-physician-assistant-pathway/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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