80k salary. Specialty- New grad- On call

[UnconfidentnewGrad]

So I am a new grad.. I was offered a job in a specialty. Pay is 80k.

Schedule: 2 weeks hospital, + on call 1 of those weeks (call from nurse and pts not from Physicians which goes to on call physician). 2 weeks outpatient. PTO: 15 days/ year. + holidays.  200/month for insurance.  CME 2 days. 1500$
Do you think the pay is too low ?

Also let me add that I graduated in December-2017- I was trying SO hard to find a job in my city but could not-- eventually gave up and applied outside of my state. I am scared this may be the best offer I can get because of my time off. 

[marktheshark89]

Way too low- should be closer to 100k IMO

[UnconfidentnewGrad]

@marktheshark89 Thanks for the advice! Yes, I think its very very low.. but the fear that I may not get any other offers is what is making me want to take it. I tried to negotiate a higher salary but it was a no go.

[PACJD]

Wayyyyy too low... 80k was the typical starting salary 10-15 years ago, but now salaries should be at least 90 k and i wouldn't even consider anything below that... Many new grad students that i have been a preceptor for have been getting contracts in the 100s even up to 120-125k.. Obviously there are many other things to consider besides the salary, including location, benefits and the actual position, but i wouldn't even bother with that salary unless there is a hefty bonus structure set in place.

[jeepgirl]

You can do better. Keep looking. 

 

[UnconfidentnewGrad]

@PACJDThanks for the advice! What about the fact that I graduated in December? What if this is the best/only option I get?? I hate this huge stretch of time I have off-- I applied to residencies once I graduated and made it to the final round on one of them but ultimately didn't get any. So then my next choice was to find a job in my home city but that I found out was nearly impossible for a new grad... So now I am searching anywhere within 10 hours of my city for a job.

Benefits are okay I think- I would pay 200 a month for health, dental and vision. They pay malpractice but no tail coverage. Location is okay since its 4 hours from my home city. I really love the field of GI but I was hoping for an outpatient job. (I had one rotation of inpatient hospital work during my clinical year so I def don't feel confident in this area).

I asked about bonuses and they just said sometimes they give quarterly bonuses based on production but "There have been quarters that we have paid bonuses, and quarters where we have not."

 

I have another interview for a job 6 hours from my house in GI (all outpatient) but that is just a phone interview and it's not until Aug 27th. The thought of taking more time off is daunting. I am currently shadowing 3 days a week at an endocrinology practice near my house so I don't look like I am totally useless.

Thank you again for the advice!!!

[jeepgirl]

I recently graduated PA school on the east coast ... not quite the Deep South, but you will still find sweet tea on menus. 

New grad pay in that area is mid $80s ... but that is for positions that do not involve call/night shifts. My friends with jobs that involve call/night shift are compensated for their time with salaries in the $90s/100s+. 

I know you're trying to stay close to home, but you may want to consider opening up your radius even more, networking, and possibly working with headhunters/recruiters. 

I've read it many times on this forum ... and heard it from school faculty. For new grads, pick 2 of 3: 1) Location, 2) Pay, 3) Specialty. For me, pay and specialty were the most important ... and I currently find myself with a well-paying job for a great company in my desired specialty in California. 

Good luck with your search!

[marktheshark89]

4 hours ago, UnconfidentnewGrad said:

@marktheshark89 Thanks for the advice! Yes, I think its very very low.. but the fear that I may not get any other offers is what is making me want to take it. I tried to negotiate a higher salary but it was a no go.

That tells you all you need to know 

[EMEDPA]

agree with all the folks above who recommend no salary under 90 k unless a residency or part time work. FWIW my first year as a PA (1996) I made 70k....22 years ago....

[MT2PA]

Also bennies aren't that great - 200/mo if you're only paying for yourself is high IMO (I think I'm looking at less than half of that), no tail coverage (which could end up being expensive for you), is there any retirement plan/match?

Only you know how desperate you are considering your less than recent graduation.  If you feel like you HAVE to take this offer, at least  it's in a field you like, but make sure you know the details of your contract so you can get out once something better comes along (and you should keep looking for something better if you take this).

[PACJD]

8 hours ago, UnconfidentnewGrad said:

@PACJDThanks for the advice! What about the fact that I graduated in December? What if this is the best/only option I get?? I hate this huge stretch of time I have off-- I applied to residencies once I graduated and made it to the final round on one of them but ultimately didn't get any. So then my next choice was to find a job in my home city but that I found out was nearly impossible for a new grad... So now I am searching anywhere within 10 hours of my city for a job.

Benefits are okay I think- I would pay 200 a month for health, dental and vision. They pay malpractice but no tail coverage. Location is okay since its 4 hours from my home city. I really love the field of GI but I was hoping for an outpatient job. (I had one rotation of inpatient hospital work during my clinical year so I def don't feel confident in this area).

I asked about bonuses and they just said sometimes they give quarterly bonuses based on production but "There have been quarters that we have paid bonuses, and quarters where we have not."

 

I have another interview for a job 6 hours from my house in GI (all outpatient) but that is just a phone interview and it's not until Aug 27th. The thought of taking more time off is daunting. I am currently shadowing 3 days a week at an endocrinology practice near my house so I don't look like I am totally useless.

Thank you again for the advice!!!

What region of the country are you located? I find it kind of odd that it is that difficult to find a new grad position within 10 hours of your city with decent pay. Are you willing to relocate to another state completely or do you want to stay in your current state? Are you aiming specifically for GI or are you open to other specialties as well? In what ways are you searching/applying to jobs? Are you applying to many and not getting calls back? or Are you interviewing to many and just not getting chosen?

Just for comparison, a student of mine just graduated this past may and was looking for a job in the city (NYC). He applied to around 15-20 jobs, interviewed for 9, was offered a position for 7, and 5 had contracts of >100k. And this is in NY where (supposedly) there is supposed to be low pay and high saturation (none of which I have seen as long as I have been working here). They were various specialities of IM, neuro, neurosurgery, etc. 

Again Idk where exactly you are living, but if it is as difficult as you are saying then it may be worth a shot to move to a larger city. Heck, move here in NYC and I will guarantee you'll find something in the first 2 weeks. 

Just an FYI though, the wait definitely sucks but as soon as you accept a position you will have to wait another few months for credentialing to take place. Just keep that in mind!

Good luck!

 

[ravenspac]

13 hours ago, PACJD said:

Are you willing to relocate to another state completely or do you want to stay in your current state? Are you aiming specifically for GI or are you open to other specialties as well? In what ways are you searching/applying to jobs? Are you applyi

On 8/14/2018 at 11:16 AM, UnconfidentnewGrad said:

@marktheshark89 Thanks for the advice! Yes, I think its very very low.. but the fear that I may not get any other offers is what is making me want to take it. I tried to negotiate a higher salary but it was a no go.

I think it depends on the state. Pennsylvania its pretty common to start non ED PA's in the 70-80's. Its absurd, but thats what happens when you governing body lets new schools pop up every year. We're over 20 PA schools now, not including NP school lol.

 

I will add GI is much more complex than it looks, and typically it should pay higher than Family practice if there is Inpatient service.... the inpatient GI team is often stretched ultra thin, and the PA's do all the charting and rounding while the Docs only do scopes. This sounds low even for PA. I would expect GI to start mid 80's even in PA

[Boatswain2PA]

There's soooooo much wrong with the picture I am seeing you paint here.

1)  You graduated 10 months ago?  I think that's extreme, even for saturated PA/OH region.  Is there something wrong with your CV or history that's not getting you interviews, or something wrong with your interviews that you're not getting hired?  Or is this normal for others in your class??

2)  What's your debt load?  If you are $200K in debt, then you simply cannot take this job as you will never get out of debt.  You will HAVE to move.  On the other hand, if you are debt free, that changes the equation.

3)  You haven't been able to find a job within 10 HOURS distance?  Unless there is a problem with your CV, history, or interviews I find this very hard to believe.  A 10 hour circle from PA (including driving across the entire state) gets you almost all of NC, VA, WV, OH, MD, NY, NJ, and RI, along with half of IN, MA, VT, and NH.  It's a WAG, but I would guess 30% of the hospitals/clinics in the country are within 10 hours from you.

4)  Pay/benefits are terrible for most places in the country, but as you are painfully aware, some places are getting saturated.  

5)  Another concern is how you said the docs are on call for calls from other docs....huh?  I may be reading this wrong, but this makes me concerned for the culture of the organization.  If I'm on call for the patients in the hospital, and especially if I've rounded on them, why wouldn't I take physician calls for those patients?  Makes me worry about them having a culture of "you're just a PA, we don't want you to really make any decisions", or "you're just a PA, you're not allowed to talk to other physicians.".  

Sounds to me like A) there's more to the story than you're disclosing here (which is fine), and B) you need to move.  I get multiple emails a week from recruiters about jobs all over the country.  Just got one an hour ago for an EM job in Illinois.

Good luck!

 

[UnconfidentnewGrad]

@Boatswain2PA

1) Nothing wrong with my CV. Initially out of school I applied for residencies/fellowships- that process took from Feb-->April: with my last interview in April)  I had a couple of interviews for jobs in my city in the meantime but 1st I didn't want to commit to anything that required a year contract because I was hoping to land a residency and 2nd the jobs I interviewed for wanted me to be solo after a week of learning the EMR. I found out mid-may that I did not land the last residency

From Mid may- end of June I was applying in my state only and realized it was way too saturated so I began applying outside. Since applying out of my state I have gotten many interviews in various states- but one of the things I am looking for in a job is not to be solo for at least the first 6 months (this may be unreasonable to expect from a job... not sure). All of the interviews and job acceptances I have had, wanted me to be solo within approx 2 weeks.  I am just not comfortable doing that, hence why I wanted the residency/fellowship.

= I never said I couldn't find a job within 10 hours. I couldn't find a job in my home city but I am easily getting job interviews for jobs outside my state- but I am limiting myself to a 10 hour drive. I have gotten an offer for the practice which is offering 80k. I have gotten an offer for an UC which is maybe 7 hours away (but this would have me being solo after "a week or two of shadowing then maybe a month or 2 of working with another provider in one of the busier clinics.")

On 8/14/2018 at 1:25 PM, UnconfidentnewGrad said:

. So then my next choice was to find a job in my home city but that I found out was nearly impossible for a new grad... So now I am searching anywhere within 10 hours of my city for a job.

I have a phone interview for a GI job coming up at the end of Aug = 5 hours from my home city-but I don't know if it's wise to let go of these opportunities I have now- since as you stated I am an "extreme" case with my absence from working. I do shadow/volunteer at a clinic currently and plan to continue doing so until I do land a job so I can continue to learn.

Another big mistake I made - is when I was applying for jobs I was using DocCafe- and for months didn't get ANYTHING. The moment I started using Indeed the phone calls from recruiters/jobs started rolling in.

Maybe since I am almost 10 months out, the best I can get is a low salary. IDK. Just eager to start working. I want to work somewhere that I can learn and grow my skills as a PA/ not somewhere where I have no support system.

 

Thanks for the advice

[Boatswain2PA]

Thanks for clarifying, and it appears I read into the 10 hour thing something that you indeed did NOT say...my apologies.

This job offer sucks.  It's terrible.

But I think I would take it if I were in your shoes.  You've been (real) jobless for 8-9 months.  I don't think you mentioned a timeframe in the contract (if you did I missed it), so maybe take the job and keep looking for other jobs you WANT.  If you get interviews, you could explain your gap/leaving new job so soon with "I took the gap/job because I really wanted THIS job!  THIS job is where I really want to be!!"

Otherwise.....move.  You're in a saturated area.  An ED I part-time at just hired a 25 yo new grad with no prior experience for $150K/year ($75/hr with poor benefits).  The jobs are out there...but you may have to go where "professional" people oftentimes don't want to live.

[PACJD]

Agree with above... The job offer is terrible and I personally would not settle and would not take the offer. I honestly don't think being without a job for 8-9 months is what is causing employers to be hesitant in hiring you. Speciality services know that they have to train you still, and most new grads don't work for 3-6 months after graduating anyway (due to credentialing), so being an extra 2-3 months jobless won't really affect your performance in the field. 

I don't care what region of the country you are in or what speciality you are looking in, but 80k + call as a new grad salary is not acceptable for our profession (unless you are in a formal residency as stated above). No one should be accepting this type of salary and doing so sets the precedent that we are willing to work for less. Please do us all a favor and don't take the job. 

I still find it hard to believe that you cannot find a job that is willing to train and provide a decent salary (at least 90k).  Your location range is large enough that you should fulfill both needs. Unless you are set on looking at a specific subspecialty, it boggles my mind that you are having so much difficulty. 

Keep looking, stay positive, and don't settle. What you are asking for in your first job aren't crazy expectations. Like Boatswain2PA said above, the jobs are out there, and the solid-paying jobs are out there too. My hospital just hired 2 new PAs that graduated in February (6-7 months out of school), in CT and neuro surgery and are starting them both at 110k + 5k annual bonus. And this is in the northeast. 

[UnconfidentnewGrad]

@Boatswain2PA

Thanks for the advice! Maybe I will consider taking the UC job- I am just scared being solo after 1-2 weeks of shadowing  and a few months of working in the same facility with another provider. I just don't see how they can be comfortable with me seeing the exact same patients as physicians with significantly less training and without a support staff nearby. I love the idea of having another provider in the same facility that I can consult if I do encounter a "zebra."

The contract does not have a timeframe- I can give a 90 day notice and leave. Hmmm decisions decisions.  I need to give the 80k job an answer by Monday -so tonight and tomorrow I will do some soul searching haha

Thanks!

[UnconfidentnewGrad]

@PACJD

Thank you for the encouraging words!! One problem I know I make is that I don't apply to jobs that require experience and only apply to jobs that mention they are open to new grads. I have been told by peers to apply to all jobs even if it requires years of experience but because I am looking for a company open to training a new grad, I won't budge on that aspect.

The sad thing is that this facility already hired a new grad PA with this salary- so when I tried to negotiate a higher salary they said no because they need to be consistent with the salary they provide.

Thanks again, I really needed to read some encouraging words for a change. I keep hearing from myself and everyone (understandably) that I needed to have started working a long long time ago. 

I will do some more thinking this weekend before giving them an answer.

Thanks again!!

 

[PAtoB]

What about an urgent care job? You'll get paid better with about the same crappy workload.

[MT2PA]

Even openings that want experience may still be wiling to train a new grad.  You are limiting yourself there.

Anecdotally my company requested experience in the posting (put out by HR) but the docs actually were happy to have a new grad they could 'mold'....worth a chance considering you don't have anything stellar staring at you now.

[anewconvert]

On 8/14/2018 at 5:00 PM, EMEDPA said:

agree with all the folks above who recommend no salary under 90 k unless a residency or part time work. FWIW my first year as a PA (1996) I made 70k....22 years ago....

Not a bad starting salary. For comparison that’s about $112k in today’s dollars.....

 

 

[ravenspac]

On 8/14/2018 at 12:26 AM, UnconfidentnewGrad said:

So I am a new grad.. I was offered a job in a specialty. Pay is 80k.

Schedule: 2 weeks hospital, + on call 1 of those weeks (call from nurse and pts not from Physicians which goes to on call physician). 2 weeks outpatient. PTO: 15 days/ year. + holidays.  200/month for insurance.  CME 2 days. 1500$
Do you think the pay is too low ?

Also let me add that I graduated in December-2017- I was trying SO hard to find a job in my city but could not-- eventually gave up and applied outside of my state. I am scared this may be the best offer I can get because of my time off. 

Id never take any on call job for less than 100K. Im considering ortho which will require complete new training like a new grad, despite being a PA several years... I wont

[PAtoB]

fwiw I was one of the last in my class to take a job - turned down 4 prior offers - because I refused to settle for something less. The first job I got, I never expected, as the hirer-in-charge was adamantly opposed to new grads until they interviewed me. Don't limit yourself to only applying to new grad jobs.