Admissions for Minorities

[pursuitofPA]

I can only imagine how much growth the pa profession would experience if the AAPA steps it up. Reaching out to unrepresented backgrounds and advocating is key. I also find it shocking how many people (of all backgrounds) don't know what a "pa" is. 

Not only the growth but also improved patient outcomes. It’s my hope to provide care to the underserved and underrepresented. As a minority I know there is a need. I’m just glad to know that there are people who care about this issue outside of those who made negative remarks on this post.


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[EMEDPA]

people tend to return to their home communities to practice when they graduate, so it is a societal necessity to make sure we have folks from all communities and walks of life. At the same time I agree with those who say " don't lower the standards". I don't think we have to. There are plenty of folks from every background who could qualify for admission to PA school under the current standards with a bit of mentorship and career counseling. 

[UGoLong]

I think I see why the Rev closed the old discussion! To PAs and future PAs: try to discuss topics without throwing bombs or deciding that you understand everyone's motives from a few words on a forum. All these people are -- or may become -- your colleagues.

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[Guest TopShotta]

Why is it when someone brings up race, all of a sudden people get in their feelings. I mean its a real thing, that minorities have to deal with. Its not made up. @EMEDPA made a great point about PA programs starting to go to undeserved communities and not just to treat but to educate about the PA profession and how to become a PA. I can honestly say I first found out about PA's in college. 

This is a great discussion we are all here for the same reason to be better than we were yesterday. But we can not act like we are oblivious to the fact that medical schools are more diverse than PA schools. 

@athleticgingerpta I really do not understand why you are so mad. Its ok if you do not like diversity. At least your honest. Its ok if you feel attacked. But one thing I know for sure that would really upset you would be seeing a complete minority cohort.  Would you say that school lowered their standards. You would probably say they discriminated against white people. But with the same breathe, have no problems with an all white cohort. Wheres the lie?

[Guest TopShotta]

2 hours ago, UGoLong said:

I think I see why the Rev closed the old discussion! To PAs and future PAs: try to discuss topics without throwing bombs or deciding that you understand everyone's motives from a few words on a forum. All these people are -- or may become -- your colleagues.

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Thats a cop out. The discussion does not die because you choose not to speak on it. Thats cowardly. Guess what obviously their are strong feelings about the topic. So the discussion is needed. Everything is not always sunshine and roses. In the real world people are having these discussions everyday. There are always going to be those individuals who take things to the next level. Thats life. It still does not justify closing a topic. 

[Teacher2PAC]

11 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

let's try this again and refocus the discussion on how we might get folks from traditionally unrepresented backgrounds to apply to PA school without any discussion of lowering standards. I would not have a problem with PA programs doing presentations about the profession at inner city high schools, on Indian reservations, etc just so folks know about the field. I think the main issue is that even in 2018 many people still do not know about the field. The AAPA is to blame for this. they have never done any kind of serious PR campaign like those done by nurses, DOs, etc

This is what is needed. 

Just from personal experience, before starting PA School, I was a high school teacher of 5 years in a metropolitan city. What I found was students really need good mentors. Teachers cannot "do it all". Teenagers love it when you show them your profession and give them a taste of what you do. 

I started an EMT club at my school and took the students on EMT shadowing rides, they loved it. A few graduated to become paid EMTs themselves, which helped a few pay their way through college. Now, they are going to med school and even PA school!

Subsequently, PA professionals who I met at the hospital were delighted to come visit my classroom to tell the kids about who PAs are, and a few recommended applying to the five-year programs if the students knew PA was the medical career they wanted. 

This specific advice was not something that a guidance counselor or even a college admissions officer could just give them. This is something the profession has to do. Even though PAs are medical providers, they are also educators, and when you educate young people that is only to your advantage.

 

[UGoLong]

Thats a cop out. The discussion does not die because you choose not to speak on it. Thats cowardly. Guess what obviously their are strong feelings about the topic. So the discussion is needed. Everything is not always sunshine and roses. In the real world people are having these discussions everyday. There are always going to be those individuals who take things to the next level. Thats life. It still does not justify closing a topic. 

Sorry you feel that way. Still, blistering people on a forum is probably not the way to get things to change. Doing something like the teacher did is a more productive path.

I don’t blame people for being upset; it’s an important stage in making things change. But spraying me on a forum doesn’t get you an ally.


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[kidpresentable]

12 hours ago, TopShotta said:

Thats a cop out. The discussion does not die because you choose not to speak on it. Thats cowardly. Guess what obviously their are strong feelings about the topic. So the discussion is needed. Everything is not always sunshine and roses. In the real world people are having these discussions everyday. There are always going to be those individuals who take things to the next level. Thats life. It still does not justify closing a topic. 

Hm... Decrying a call for civility, ignoring responses with actual, substantive solutions... We’ve got a word for that on the internet: troll.

For the record, @rev ronin and @UGoLong could have been two of your greatest resources as a would-be PA. Fortunately for you, in spite of yourself, they still are. That’s a reflection of the type of people they are.

But even if they don’t close the topic, I’m definitely done reading it.

[Ket131]

23 hours ago, prepa1997 said:

(1)I'm really saddened by the fact that you're a PA now.

22 hours ago, prepa1997 said:

(2)Anyway, I can't educate someone who mind isn't open. So this is a waste of time and energy. (*)Good luck and please be safe on how you're treating your patients especially when a minority sits in your chair.

22 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

(3) I don't see "a minority" in the chair.  I see a human who came to me for help.

1. Honestly confused here.  Sad because intent was pointed out that there should be a standard that all must achieve?  Sad that an actual PA does not judge a person based on race? 
2. I think it has been perfectly clear who has an open mind and who does not in these last three threads.  *Also telling a practicing PA to be careful on treating their patients because you don't agree?  That just seems like a bad idea. 
3. Everyone needs to strive for this.  Certain people have the maturity to not judge based on race and some people will always see it.  Regardless if it is in lower level academia or in practice. 

20 hours ago, healthcare3o0 said:

(1) I can only imagine how much growth the pa profession would experience if the AAPA steps it up. Reaching out to unrepresented backgrounds and advocating is key.

1. Amen.  I am happy that my school invites high school age people to the school to get them interested or to consider PA profession.  

12 hours ago, TopShotta said:

(1) Why is it when someone brings up race, all of a sudden people get in their feelings. 

1. You are right and I think it has been crystal clear who has been acting emotional and who has not been in these last three threads.  Based on their statements and on their reactions.  
2. It is important to start figuring out how to separate one's self from being emotional or one is going to not be able to function well in the real world.  I remember a particular time I became emotional at work when a patient called a black CBT a monkey.  The provider I was scribing for noticed how the language in the note changed.  I was pretty upset by it, maybe it was because I have a black SO, because the CBT was a great guy and the majority of the MAs were black.  My provider took what I wrote and rewrote it and asked me to compare the two.  Immediately saw a difference in the language and how it could have made her look.  She smiled at me and taught me a very important lesson.  You can be emotional, but don't let your emotions show.  

19 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

(1) people tend to return to their home communities to practice when they graduate, so it is a societal necessity to make sure we have folks from all communities and walks of life. (Omitted content for simplicity of response.) (2) There are plenty of folks from every background who could qualify for admission to PA school under the current standards with a bit of mentorship and career counseling. 

1. This is right on the money.  I live in in a city where there are pocketed communities of Somali, Hmong, Ethiopian, black/hispanic (tend be be in the same areas).  Some people can't wait to get out and some people can't wait to get back.  
2. I think schools in areas with these diverse communities are pretty good about looking for the best candidates from these groups with current standards.  It is important for those that return back, to educate their communities and make them aware/interested in medicine and role of PA.  
3. Tangental thought, I think the word "assistant" in the job title doesn't help the cause because it doesn't accurately reflect what is required of the work.  On a cultural basis the term doctor is pretty well understood.  I know "assistant" tends to confuse a bunch of people and many patients I have taken care of, particularly the Hmong (because of the clinic I worked at) were hung up on this when I told them about what a PA does.  It's just another factor of this multifactorial issue.  

[prepa1997]

1 hour ago, Ket131 said:

1. Honestly confused here.  Sad because intent was pointed out that there should be a standard that all must achieve?  Sad that an actual PA does not judge a person based on race? 
2. I think it has been perfectly clear who has an open mind and who does not in these last three threads.  *Also telling a practicing PA to be careful on treating their patients because you don't agree?  That just seems like a bad idea. 
3. Everyone needs to strive for this.  Certain people have the maturity to not judge based on race and some people will always see it.  Regardless if it is in lower level academia or in practice. 

1. Amen.  I am happy that my school invites high school age people to the school to get them interested or to consider PA profession.  

1. You are right and I think it has been crystal clear who has been acting emotional and who has not been in these last three threads.  Based on their statements and on their reactions.  
2. It is important to start figuring out how to separate one's self from being emotional or one is going to not be able to function well in the real world.  I remember a particular time I became emotional at work when a patient called a black CBT a monkey.  The provider I was scribing for noticed how the language in the note changed.  I was pretty upset by it, maybe it was because I have a black SO, because the CBT was a great guy and the majority of the MAs were black.  My provider took what I wrote and rewrote it and asked me to compare the two.  Immediately saw a difference in the language and how it could have made her look.  She smiled at me and taught me a very important lesson.  You can be emotional, but don't let your emotions show.  

1. This is right on the money.  I live in in a city where there are pocketed communities of Somali, Hmong, Ethiopian, black/hispanic (tend be be in the same areas).  Some people can't wait to get out and some people can't wait to get back.  
2. I think schools in areas with these diverse communities are pretty good about looking for the best candidates from these groups with current standards.  It is important for those that return back, to educate their communities and make them aware/interested in medicine and role of PA.  
3. Tangental thought, I think the word "assistant" in the job title doesn't help the cause because it doesn't accurately reflect what is required of the work.  On a cultural basis the term doctor is pretty well understood.  I know "assistant" tends to confuse a bunch of people and many patients I have taken care of, particularly the Hmong (because of the clinic I worked at) were hung up on this when I told them about what a PA does.  It's just another factor of this multifactorial issue.  

Hi Ket good to see your input again! We have different views and that perfectly fine because that how the world is.Everything I’ve said has thousands of hour of research that backs up my beliefs as well as my own personal research. I don’t see any point of having any type of back and forth on a discussion over a forum where real change can’t happen. I’ll continue to work on reaching my goals as well educating individual through my volunteer and work settings. I’ve noticed the AAPA is looking for a new individual to be apart of their minority health committee so I hope whomever is understands how minorities actually feel in terms of trust in the health care field.No one is judging based on race like I stated in the post prior but like I said we see things differently. Components of how we were raised as well as what we experienced also take a role. These same components can either tear us apart or bring us together. Hopefully in the future we can all be more on the same page but it doesn’t make sense to write paragraphs on this forum to individuals who don’t really have any power in legislation or run any offices in general for change. Thank for your response though! I also agree the the assistant component in the job title in something that truly need to change because some patients I’ve told about the field thought it went along the same lines as a medical assistant job description. ( side note everyone need to be careful on daily basis on whatever their doing   ) 

 

Also to agree with Topshotta these discussion are being made everyday. Either throughout universities, protest, and legislation. This isn’t something we can run away from. People want real change. If anyone who was reading this forum and felt that it was becoming an argument and my point wasn’t getting across I apologize. Passions are high on this topic as you can see because I’ve spoken to people first hand on how they feel about this topic. I’m hoping in the end we all learned alittle more. 

[rev ronin]

17 hours ago, UGoLong said:

I think I see why the Rev closed the old discussion! To PAs and future PAs: try to discuss topics without throwing bombs or deciding that you understand everyone's motives from a few words on a forum. All these people are -- or may become -- your colleagues.

Indeed.  And if it weren't for EMEDPA's willingness to pretty much continually refocus the discussion, I'd be really, really tempted to close this one too.  There's far too many aspersions being cast, far too much bickering rather than emphasis on how to best solve the problem.

THIS IS NOT SDN.  Polite disagreement and respectful discourse are welcome, but the mods have carte blanche to close threads like I did, if they seem to be headed in the wrong direction. (And it's not huddle, either, so we're far more tolerant of discussing actual problems, but that's not been the problem in this topic)

[EMEDPA]

it's a sad state of affairs when I am one of the voices of reason. those of you who know me personally know why that is funny....I think some of these responses here frankly are the result of being new to the profession and being excited about its potential. when I look back on some of my SDN posts from 15+ years ago I read them and think "wow, I used to be a real tool sometimes". 10 years from now I will probably think the same things about stuff I write today.

[DiggySRNA]

6 hours ago, healthcare3o0 said:

As a first generation college student, I had no idea what I was doing. There was no one else to tell me to apply to FASFA early, wake up at 5am on registration day, or use all the free tutoring/student help I could. Academically speaking, I would not be where I am today if it wasn't for the mentors that I was lucky enough to have. Getting more quality professionals to mentor is the key (easier said than done).

 

Sadly, even in high school, teachers in underperforming schools typically "give" up. I was one of 9 males in my senior class who graduated out of a pool of 50 guys? My support system at University is what I attribute my success to. Free printing, free tutoring sessions, free book rentals, and help with navigating the system to successfully graduate. And most importantly...early registrations into classes. This was all provided by the agreement between my state university and the high school I graduated from. Did they lower their standards for me? No, I had to take the same SAT, write the same personal statement, jump through the same hoops to matriculate. What they did, however, was provide me with the tools needed to succeed.

So when I read comments of minorities being underqualified...and PA schools lowering their standards, I shrug my shoulders and go distract myself before I say something I'll regret 5 minutes after posting. Minorities are always told they are not qualified or not good enough. Just the other day a fellow student FAILED out of my nursing school with only 2 months to go before graduation. Come to find out, they didn't even care because it was funded by their parents. Talk about privilege. No, they aren't a minority. 

I understand why Rev Ronin closed the previous thread but I also understand the frustration of the individual who inquired about it. There's a saying that says it's not what you say, it's how you say it, and that actions speak louder than words.

[Boatswain2PA]

12 hours ago, Ket131 said:

I remember a particular time I became emotional at work when a patient called a black CBT a monkey.  

I would handle that much differently than your provider.  I don't put up with patients yelling at my nurses, and I wouldn't put up with my patients acting like racist a$$hats like this.  Gonna go racist $hithead on someone on my staff and I will personally verbally shut you down and immediately discharge you from my care (or, rectify your haldol deficiency).

Likewise, if you see racism EVERYWHERE simply because one of your ancestors was a slave or suffered from some other type of oppression (or, more commonly in today's world, you were TAUGHT that there is racism EVERYWHERE by your minorities studies professor)....I dont' have tolerance for that victimhood mentality either..  You weren't a slave, I'm not a racist, and we all have our individual struggles.  Let's treat each other with respect and dignity, always trying to see things from each other's perspectives even if we don't agree, and not give a damn about he color of our skin.

[StevenBrule]

10 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Likewise, if you see racism EVERYWHERE simply because one of your ancestors was a slave or suffered from some other type of oppression (or, more commonly in today's world, you were TAUGHT that there is racism EVERYWHERE by your minorities studies professor)....

...Look it may not "racism", but the aftermath of historically racist policies has indirectly led this profession as well as others to be underrepresented by certain minorities.  Its called structural/systemic racism.  Technically, it is everywhere.  Now how we go about "fixing" this problem within this profession is the topic of conversation.

Using evidence of systemic racism to "lower standards" as some have put it, is obviously not the answer...to me THIS is the real copout. As @EMEDPA and others have mentioned, one solution to the problem of underrepresentation/or lack of diversity within the profession appears to be increasing our presence at inner city schools, raising awareness of what PAs do with high school and college career counseling services, but most importantly, being a mentor to young and passionate minds.  The latter is key and something that all should endeavor to practice in some form or another--passing on your knowledge and guiding those individuals who are already highly motivated but due to the circumstances beyond their control, lack the benefits and resources that many of us, unconsciously use to our success.

 

 

[Boatswain2PA]

12 hours ago, StevenBrule said:

Its called structural/systemic racism.  Technically, it is everywhere.  Now how we go about "fixing" this problem within this profession is the topic of conversation.

I know what it's called Steven. I was going through "civil rights training" in the military when you were likely still in diapers, or probably earlier, therefore I have seen the verbage, the ideology, and the tactics of those pushing for change morph over time.  

You are absolutely right in focusing on "how do we fix" this problem.  I'll go even further in asking how do we keep from screwing it up even more, because I think a lot of what we've "done to fix this problem" has just made things much, much worse for the people we've been trying to help.  It's been 3 generations since MLK led the Civil Rights Movement to enormous victories.  Why have things gotten so much worse for so many people since then despite the victories of his generation?

For my part, I will try to see each person as a person created by God, therefore worthy of my respect.  

[BlackCatWhiteCat]

On 8/11/2018 at 11:51 AM, EMEDPA said:

let's try this again and refocus the discussion on how we might get folks from traditionally unrepresented backgrounds to apply to PA school without any discussion of lowering standards. I would not have a problem with PA programs doing presentations about the profession at inner city high schools, on Indian reservations, etc just so folks know about the field. I think the main issue is that even in 2018 many people still do not know about the field. The AAPA is to blame for this. they have never done any kind of serious PR campaign like those done by nurses, DOs, etc

Is there any way to change this? I went to my schools prehealth professions office and they’ve only had about 1 or 2 students apply to PA schools in the past 5 years. Most students still don’t know the profession exists

[rev ronin]

So since I come from a fire service background, here's how we're fighting discrimination with other discrimination, somewhat successfully:

Camp Blaze and other girls' fire camps, are run by female firefighters for high school girls.  Some guy in California sued because the camps are discriminatory, but for the most part, people realize this is GOOD discrimination.  Idealogues have buried the idea that sometimes, children learn best in same-sex environments, and these all-girl camps led by all-female firefighters appear to be a great way to raise visibility and provide positive role models to a horribly sex-ratio lopsided profession.  No one gets a free pass, but they do get to meet women who might mentor them through to a fire service career.

The discrimination is in attention, not in hiring: candidates still have to meet the same physical agility standards, based on real fireground tasks, which fit women do just fine on.

How to take that sort of focused attention and inspire minority youth to enter healthcare, specifically as providers?  I don't know; I don't belong to that community.  But I will wholeheartedly endorse someone approaching the problem in such a manner.

[Guest PAhopeful85]

On 8/11/2018 at 10:03 PM, Guest TopShotta said:

Why is it when someone brings up race, all of a sudden people get in their feelings. I mean its a real thing, that minorities have to deal with. Its not made up. @EMEDPA made a great point about PA programs starting to go to undeserved communities and not just to treat but to educate about the PA profession and how to become a PA. I can honestly say I first found out about PA's in college. 

This is a great discussion we are all here for the same reason to be better than we were yesterday. But we can not act like we are oblivious to the fact that medical schools are more diverse than PA schools. 

@athleticgingerpta I really do not understand why you are so mad. Its ok if you do not like diversity. At least your honest. Its ok if you feel attacked. But one thing I know for sure that would really upset you would be seeing a complete minority cohort.  Would you say that school lowered their standards. You would probably say they discriminated against white people. But with the same breathe, have no problems with an all white cohort. Wheres the lie?

These stats are a couple years old, but you can sure tell that Mr evil systemic racism whitey is surely making it harder for minorities to get into medical programs. 

[Bat10]

3 hours ago, athleticgingerpta said:

These stats are a couple years old, but you can sure tell that Mr evil systemic racism whitey is surely making it harder for minorities to get into medical programs. 

Would you give it up already? This post doesn’t take away from the BS you posted a month ago. Quit saying things that create more animus.