Salaries

[PAtoMD]

Currently on rotations and I’ve been talking to some classmates about what their preceptors make or claim to. I’ve started hearing some really high numbers and was wondering what is the highest salary any of you have ever received, heard or seen for a PA/NP.

When I say high numbers, I mean close to or more than physician salary. Doing the math in my head it all just doesn’t add up to me. 

 

[sas5814]

Like most things it is tied to the specialty they work in and the area. I think the highest I ever heard was PA working for a neurosurgeon who made about 300k. He worked like a dog...was forever on call...and had no real life but he was making bank.

[PAtoMD]

11 minutes ago, sas5814 said:

Like most things it is tied to the specialty they work in and the area. I think the highest I ever heard was PA working for a neurosurgeon who made about 300k. He worked like a dog...was forever on call...and had no real life but he was making bank.

Right, that is something to take into account. Neurosurgery and CT are the highest paying if I recall so seeing super high salaries there is more believable plus COL may also be higher. The salaries I am hearing are way closer to what their SP would be making.

I appreciate your input!

[ventana]

Know of a PA that gets $120 per hour for corrections.   

I have per diem job at 90 per hour.  

[PAtoMD]

2 minutes ago, ventana said:

Know of a PA that gets $120 per hour for corrections.   

I have per diem job at 90 per hour.  

40 hours a week or X shifts per month?

Also, good for both of y'all!

[sas5814]

I work in a very low stress UC and my base is about 160k with time and a half for hours after 40 of which there is a lot.

[ventana]

15 minutes ago, SR0525 said:

40 hours a week or X shifts per month?

Also, good for both of y'all!

20 hours per week.  125k per year half time.  

 

Just cleared 2000 in two days at my per diem

[kidpresentable]

474k for a pediatric ortho PA, plus another 76k in benefits. Don’t know him personally - this is according to a state employee salary report

[AbeTheBabe]

4 hours ago, kidpresentable said:

474k for a pediatric ortho PA, plus another 76k in benefits. Don’t know him personally - this is according to a state employee salary report

That's 91/hour if he works 100 hours per week for 52 weeks. 152/hour if we drop it down to 60 hours per week. Doesn't seem very plausible.

[sas5814]

Really doesn't does it? Maybe someone was having a bit of fun with a salary survey because that could get north of 200/hr pretty easily if you work the numbers down.

[skyblu]

474k for a pediatric ortho PA, plus another 76k in benefits. Don’t know him personally - this is according to a state employee salary report

That guy forgot he was an MD. ;-)


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[karebear12892]

Just spoke yesterday with an emergency medicine PA in coastal South Carolina making $70/hr + hourly productivity bonus (some combination of patients per hour + RVU's) and he is averaging a total of $90/hr. He's only about 3 years out of school. 

[Reality Check 2]

I am at $65 per hour as a federal employee but have benefits that kick butt and make my worth about $35000 more per year, seriously. Don't forget benefits - PTO, sick bank, insurance, matching retirement, etc. 

Sometimes the money doesn't come home in a check but it makes your life way nicer.

I make "enough" - my family is safe, solid and well taken care of. Not in it for millions and I work fair hours per week, NO CALL EVER, no weekends, no nights and a great support staff. 

Wouldn't trade this at this point in my career.

[PACJD]

Yea some people may be exaggerating I haven't seen 300-400k numbers, those are more MD numbers.

I have seen ortho PAs pulling around 230k/yr in total.. The docs in their practice are pulling upwards of 600k and it is a busy practice in the city so its definitely doable.. They also get paid base + productivity bonus and do most of the clinic procedures which adds up. 

Some of my CT PA colleagues are making around 180+ with 15-20 years experience working normal hours. I know many PAs in other specialities making 150k+ but they are putting more hours, multiple jobs, extra overtime. 

Definitely doable to be making a lucrative salary based on speciality and hours worked. I value my time more, so I don't work crazy hours and I'm happy with what Im currently making. 

[Boatswain2PA]

I grossed just under $200K last year doing locums and part time ED.  Will probably be less this year as my most lucrative contract is ending.

High volume/high acuity ED I'm PRN at pays $70-$80/hour W-2 (depends on if you make RVU goals) with crappy benefits (staffed by VEP).

[EMEDPA]

EM, ortho, derm, neurosurg, ct surg can all make bank. I know many PAs in these areas making 200-300k/yr with overtime. Local ER group near me is now paying 100/hr + benefits as W2. I don't want to be that busy and am ok with making less to call all the shots, do all the procedures, generally sleep a few hrs/shift and have no chart review requirement. Money isn't the only path to happiness. Practice ownership is also a path to bucks if one is successful. I know several PA practice owners making 350-600k/yr. They have docs and PAs working for them.

[cg02186]

The ER I rotated at paid the PAs $100 an hour for a 10 hour shift.  People would work 14-16 shifts and make over $15K a month.  Pretty sweet gig. I’m friends with a lot of them on Facebook and they are constantly out of the country traveling and having a grand time.  

[BruceBanner]

21 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

Practice ownership is also a path to bucks if one is successful. I know several PA practice owners making 350-600k/yr. They have docs and PAs working for them.

I'd love to hear more about that. I was thinking the other day how potentially profitable a well-placed urgent care could be. I imagine you'd probably need a ton of start-up capital and/or investors to make it work.

[jmj11]

It would be interesting to hear stories of PAs who passed up large salaries to stay in or move to situations with less money but greater personal satisfaction. 

[jmj11]

49 minutes ago, BruceBanner said:

I'd love to hear more about that. I was thinking the other day how potentially profitable a well-placed urgent care could be. I imagine you'd probably need a ton of start-up capital and/or investors to make it work.

The hard thing with practice ownership (having been there for 5 years) is that the margin is so sensitive. If the debt/credit arrow moves 1-2 degrees to the positive, then the owner can do very well. Move the arrow in the other direction, and the owner loses their shirt, house and whatever they have. There are a lot of risks and rewards.

[BruceBanner]

I believe you. At the very least it sounds like a complicated endeavor to get off the ground; with the potential to sink easily. 

[sas5814]

I opened my own primary care clinic in a small town with little competition in an area where I was already well known and well established and it was still a big undertaking to get it off the ground and make a buck.

Life intervened and I had to fold for no reason related to the clinic but I learned a lot. I started small, got the doors open for about 30k, kept the staff small and worked off site to pay the bills while I was getting going. If I had come close to hitting my numbers (which I estimated very conservatively) I could had netted about 300k annually. However thew end result (see the afore-mentioned "life happened") I lost about 130k in a year.

In the days of mega-organizations and evil insurance companies it is harder and harder for a little guy to make it. That doesn't mean it can't be done...just requires a lot of planning and good execution.

[PACJD]

yea when i was a student one of my preceptors opened up a small urgent care/FM clinic in an urban city. When i talked to him he said start-up was about 200k, had to take out 2 loans. He said the first 3 years he did not profit and was extremely difficult in finances, had to work long hours, had to take care of paperwork and clinic maintenance etc. He's had this clinic for 7 years now and says he's profiting around 350k per year for himself after paying off staff, bills, and paying the doc.

[jmj11]

1 hour ago, sas5814 said:

I opened my own primary care clinic in a small town with little competition in an area where I was already well known and well established and it was still a big undertaking to get it off the ground and make a buck.

Life intervened and I had to fold for no reason related to the clinic but I learned a lot. I started small, got the doors open for about 30k, kept the staff small and worked off site to pay the bills while I was getting going. If I had come close to hitting my numbers (which I estimated very conservatively) I could had netted about 300k annually. However thew end result (see the afore-mentioned "life happened") I lost about 130k in a year.

In the days of mega-organizations and evil insurance companies it is harder and harder for a little guy to make it. That doesn't mean it can't be done...just requires a lot of planning and good execution.

Then there are the unknowns, things you would never have expected no matter how well you plan. Like, the business office building that you lease from, turns out the post office would not deliver mail to (dispute between the landlord and the post office) so you have to get a PO box in the meantime. Then all the insurances for the first six months denying payment because your clinic has a PO box instead of a street address. The other, as an example, the major insurance company refusing to do business with you because you are a PA owner. Then you enter a long legal battle with them (very draining). In the end, they contract with you, but then never make a single payment for the hundreds of patients because you were "not in their directory of practices." These kinds of things drive you mad. So I had retained lawyers, but it would mean spending up to 300K in legal fees and possibly getting nothing. Some days I wished I had taken them all to court, but my lawyers advice was not to (unless I was willing to lose 300K). My heart is with patients, not being consumed with fighting legal battles. This experience with the insurance companies became the watershed for my novel Waters or Bimini, which you will be hearing more about in a couple of weeks.

[sas5814]

I actually laughed out loud because nearly all those things happened to me. Insurance companies....don't get me started. It's like I tell people all the time... they aren't your good neighbors, your helping hands, or your friends. They are money making machines.