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That is true for medical student s. ITS not a law thoigh, it’s part of accreditation requirements for LCME.  The school has to prove that the students are getting a good experience and are taught by mostly BE/BC faculty, are getting evaluated regularly, there is a rotation chief that is in charge of the student learning experience etc.  it does impose restrictions on where you can rotate but IMO it ensures a certain quality.  

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4 hours ago, SR0525 said:

Just came across that thread on reddit. Can confirm. I'll have no inpatient experience when I graduate.

4 hours ago, lkth487 said:

That's insane.  How can they get away with that?  Maybe PA programs should also be accredited by the LCME, with similar requirements to MD schools for their PA-2 years...?

 

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28 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

See the above. If you truly get zero inpatient, your school is in violation and should be reported. If you don’t then you are equally culpable.

I misspoke then. I had a true ER rotation as well as a surgery (although much of it was in the clinic). I just don’t have an inpatient IM, FM, pediatric, or behavioral. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I wish I had those as inpatient. Other classmates do I just wasn’t fortunate enough to get them

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35 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

That isn't right. If you count ER as inpt I did IM, Peds, OB, Surg, EM, and psych all as inpt rotations, totaling 42 weeks. my only true outpt was 12 weeks of FP. 

Yeah, I wish it was different. But I’m trying to make the most of each rotation. Does it count if 1 week of my FM rotation is in patient ?If anyone is willing to take me as a student for an inpatient rotation let me know ? 

 

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5 hours ago, MT2PA said:

It would be impossible for this to be universal.  Not all PA programs have an MD program nearby (let alone under the same school).

While my program was affiliated with a med school, the MD students got priority for a lot of rotations.  They were also bound by different...laws? (I can't remember exactly what agency this stipulation fell under) so they had FEWER options for where to rotate.  I.e they HAD to rotate at hospitals affiliated with the school.  The PA kids did not (this was a huge advantage for us actually).  

I know PA schools where students essentially do all primary care rotations - no OB/gyn or psych specific.  Apparently that still meets ARC standards somehow...but definitely leaves something to be desired for countless reasons.

OBGYN specialty is definitely a required rotation. ARC PA says that outright. Not “women’s health” but “OBGYN”

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12 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

OBGYN specialty is definitely a required rotation. ARC PA says that outright. Not “women’s health” but “OBGYN”

A local program near me gives obgyn only to female students. males get extra FP. ditto peds.

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31 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

A local program near me gives obgyn only to female students. males get extra FP. ditto peds.

Must correct myself. I misread a portion of the ARCPA. It only says women’s health to include gyn and prenatal care. Apologies. But I would propose this is still a must because you must have emergent, acute, and chronic disease exposure throughout the lifespan, to me means you need an OBGYN rotation

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26 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

Must correct myself. I misread a portion of the ARCPA. It only says women’s health to include gyn and prenatal care. Apologies. But I would propose this is still a must because you must have emergent, acute, and chronic disease exposure throughout the lifespan, to me means you need an OBGYN rotation

Yup- I think every PA should at least assist in a few deliveries and c-sections in school as well.

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1 hour ago, EMEDPA said:

A local program near me gives obgyn only to female students. males get extra FP. ditto peds.

Yup only three sites in my area take males, the army hospital and two PC clinics that do a lot of women’s health. 

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?

So do they think that males will never need to take care of pregnant ladies?  Can’t the PA students rotate in OB rotations where the nearest medical school students rotate?  Since at those facilities the males have to be allowed to rotate  

Theres a reason that OB/Gyn is considered a core rotation (along with IM, FM, Psych, Peds and Surgery).   Pregnancy and childbirth (as well as Gyn problems) are pretty common last I checked...

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4 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

I did peds as Peds EM at Hartford Children's in CT.

I am not biased*, but imo everyone should do a peds inpatient or PICU rotation.  All the schools I’ve been associated with have  generally required one for the PA students, and the requirements were the same as it was for med students (as they should be).

 

 

*I am actually extremely biased ? 

 

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5 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

A local program near me gives obgyn only to female students. males get extra FP. ditto peds.

This is disconcerting to me. We aren't NPs, we're trained as generalists to take care of all patient populations. Besides, aside from the issues with ARC-PA accreditation, couldn't that be construed as a discriminatory practice? They should find rotation sites that allow male students (even if they have to pay preceptors), or they should have their accreditation withdrawn. 

The ARC-PA is pretty clear on this. From the ARC-PA Standards, 4th Edition: "Supervised clinical practice experiences used for required rotations are expected to address the fundamental principles of the disciplines below as they relate to the clinical care of patients." -- (page 21 http://www.arc-pa.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Standards-4th-Ed-March-2016.pdf)

The words emphasized in italics are theirs. The required rotations they're addressing are: "a) family medicine, b) internal medicine, c) general surgery, d) pediatrics, e) ob/gyn and f) behavioral and mental health care." 

You can't simply exchange a required rotation for extra time in a different specialty.  

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2 hours ago, lkth487 said:

?

So do they think that males will never need to take care of pregnant ladies?  Can’t the PA students rotate in OB rotations where the nearest medical school students rotate?  Since at those facilities the males have to be allowed to rotate 

there are several issues here. One is that the program in question actually has enough sites for maybe 25 students and they have more than twice that. The local hospital that has medstudents has its own PA program, so they don't allow folks from other programs to rotate there.

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36 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

there are several issues here. One is that the program in question actually has enough sites for maybe 25 students and they have more than twice that. The local hospital that has medstudents has its own PA program, so they don't allow folks from other programs to rotate there.

Then I’m sorry but they should not be accredited until they can find enough sites.  I don’t have a horse in this fight as I am not a PA.  But I do respect all the PA students I’ve precepted - they are smart capable students.  I hold them to the same standard as I do MS-3s, and they come through.  And I’ve learned a lot from experienced PAs as a med student and a resident.   If the cost of increasing the numbers is lowering of standards then I feel like it will come back to bite the profession in the butt.  Because those people will graduate and find jobs and the impressions may not be all that great...

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On 7/10/2018 at 6:11 PM, JOhnny888 said:

So basically you could become a PA, make 80-100k for 2 years, then reapply without taking the MCAT, get accepted, do another 2 years, get a dedicated spot in residency in your desired specialty (no step1 or match), and then skip PGY-1 lol?

You'd also have to scrap every medical school system in the country shortly after...

 

 

Might be a good idea ?

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