GreyhoundGirl Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Just a general rant about a posting on DocCafe... If either provider would see 15 patients a day, why the pay difference?! So annoying! "Pediatrician group in the Maryvale area is seeking either an experienced Nurse Practitioner or Physician Assistant. Newly expanded practice is seeking an additional provider due to patient demand. Current provider is seeking on average 23 patients per day. New provider will be required to see 15 patients per day. Occasional Saturday coverage is required, though will new provider can take a weekday off to offset the additional hours. Outpatient only with no inpatient rounding. Pay is negotiable, though starting rate is $55 pr/hr for NP’s and $49 pr/hr for PAs. Malpractice coverage is supplied. Ideally seeking a Bi-lingual (Spanish preferred) provider whom is available to start this summer. Great opportunity in a great location." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStone Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Not that my two cents will matter a whole bunch, considering I'm a student, but maybe their pay is higher because the NP has a specialized training in peds in this case? I couldn't tell ya, honestly. Besides the other politics in medicine, I'm not sure. But, it sounds to be just that - politics. Or maybe I'm oblivious to other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted June 27, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2018 53 minutes ago, TheLastStone said: Not that my two cents will matter a whole bunch, considering I'm a student, but maybe their pay is higher because the NP has a specialized training in peds in this case? I couldn't tell ya, honestly. Besides the other politics in medicine, I'm not sure. But, it sounds to be just that - politics. Or maybe I'm oblivious to other things. or maybe they need to give a doc 6/hr to "supervise" the PA...yet another reason for OTP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Welcome to the future....now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStone Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, EMEDPA said: or maybe they need to give a doc 6/hr to "supervise" the PA...yet another reason for OTP. The further I get into this the more I see PA/NP dispute and how important it is to make PA presence and skills known. I agree, though. How do we (well, future me) push for this and make it more feasible? The nurses, from my perspective have such a strong lobbying power. It's almost like a union, if not one already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSpectre Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Because despite PAs having a stronger training model, NPs are winning the marketing game by spending money on advertising and lobbying. https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2018/06/26/as-numbers-swell-nurse-practitioners-launch-national-campaign/#1c93b10193ae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkth487 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 My guess is because it is a PNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkth487 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 At one of my previous institutions I know for sure that when they hired a PA, they were paid a lower salary (about 15k less) than a new NNP (neonatal nurse practitioner) because of the specialized training for the latter. The starting salaries were the same for a PA who had done a neonatology residency compared to a NNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStone Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 45 minutes ago, lkth487 said: At one of my previous institutions I know for sure that when they hired a PA, they were paid a lower salary (about 15k less) than a new NNP (neonatal nurse practitioner) because of the specialized training for the latter. The starting salaries were the same for a PA who had done a neonatology residency compared to a NNP. this was my thought process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStone Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 49 minutes ago, ProSpectre said: Because despite PAs having a stronger training model, NPs are winning the marketing game by spending money on advertising and lobbying. https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2018/06/26/as-numbers-swell-nurse-practitioners-launch-national-campaign/#1c93b10193ae I took a look at it. That was a bit of a kick to us, for sure. I guess the AAPA needs to pick up the slack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted June 27, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2018 In the 30 years I have been involved with the PA profession we have never had a meaningful PR campaign... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted June 27, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2018 VA is famous for this and it is truly a load of Cr** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 At my current job, I found out a few years back that they paid the FNPs (I am a Family Medicine/IM PA) almost 12 bucks an hour more. I brought it up to management. My manager (an RN), my director (another RN), and my VP (also an RN) told me they were unaware of the discrepancy and thought it was ridiculous to have the difference in pay. They promptly matched my pay with the NPs and changed the pay scale for PAs in our dept. They did NOT however, pay me retro pay for the year I had been getting less pay [emoji53]Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I'm stunned they gave you the pay raise. Nurses look after nurses. (They also eat their young but that is a different conversation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Generally, nationwide, PAs make more than NPs. These are anomalies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexapro Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, LKPAC said: Generally, nationwide, PAs make more than NPs. These are anomalies. I thought this didn't hold true once you control for specialty and gender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 16 minutes ago, Lexapro said: I thought this didn't hold true once you control for specialty and gender? You may be right. I would think it would be tough to control for gender since there are so few male NPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Two Words Nursing Union (or lobby) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsman89 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Yet another example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HanSolo Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 The hospital I used to work at had a different pay scale for NPs and PAs. On average, the NPs started and maxed out at about $2-4 higher than the PAs per hour. However, I just now looked up some job postings for this hospital and it seems they are the same now. Still pays terribly, but as least it's equal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I'm stunned they gave you the pay raise. Nurses look after nurses. (They also eat their young but that is a different conversation).Don't wanna brag but I'm at the top 10 of providers (only PA on the list) in ambulatory care (out of 66 providers). They were actually pretty approachable but yeah if I were a dirt bag I'm sure they would have told me to kick rocks. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStone Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 It may be a slight bit of a tangent but when looking at statistics, per BLS.gov, back in 2016 there were 203,800 NP's and 106,200 PA's practicing in America. This, I'm sure, doesn't help the case, as far as lobbying power when their population is nearly twice as big. What sucks is the competition where there needs to be "co-opetition." I hate that it comes down to us always thinking about these things at the end of the day. It sucks when one or the other is treated unfairly so providers go to the administrators and higher ups with statistics to throw the other under the bus. I'm sure a lot of people look at it as fighting siblings. There should be a mid-level standard, in my opinion. We could all bitch together, but we would be doing that.. bitching TOGETHER. I'm sure it would never happen and it would be like two enemies hugging or shaking hands and living together, but could just imagine the lobbying power of a combined mid level association? Maybe I'm being a little bold here, but think about it. Think about why any of us wanted to start doing this in the first place. We could make more money doing other things than being in healthcare. I'm sure there is still plenty we could learn from them and vice versa. My thoughts may be laughed at, quoted and rebutted, but maybe it'll spark something. I don't know. I'm just a student, but I'm not a kid, and I've lived long enough to know what kind of things can be accomplished when we work together. That sounds lame and from a movie or work meeting or commercial but it's pretty true. Sorry again, for the tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 At the VA - NPs are under Nursing and actually don't fall under Medical - which makes no sense as they are in Primary Care with the rest of us. PAs are under Medical - duh, and we fall under that hierarchy. Different pay scales, different grades and methods of monitoring and scoring. The NPs have the WHOLE nursing union and lobby behind them setting a completely different pay scale. This was just rectified locally for us PAs after strong and much appreciated work by admin to attract and retain more PAs. We are now roughly on the same scale. NPs need to be put under Medical if they are practitioners and not nursing, in my humble, old and much crusty opinion. Tired of the "US" and "THEM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkertdm Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I think the VA PA's had equitable pay passed into a law, it's just taking some time to get all the parts in motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB77 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 4 hours ago, TheLastStone said: It may be a slight bit of a tangent but when looking at statistics, per BLS.gov, back in 2016 there were 203,800 NP's and 106,200 PA's practicing in America. This, I'm sure, doesn't help the case, as far as lobbying power when their population is nearly twice as big. Like Reality Check said, they have the WHOLE nursing lobby. That is another 2.7 million (2,906,840 total from BLS) nurses that back their efforts. I completely agree that cooperation would help us, but how would it benefit the nurses? They already have better laws and, from the looks of it, better pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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