Admissions for Minorities

[SammyJo 0]

I haven't seen this thread covered yet on the site, but I wanted some insight on something if any of you guys could provide that for me. In correlation to the title of the thread, I have a question regarding minorities in the admission process. Quite simply, do they have a better chance of being accepted into PA school based on race, income level, etc. I know the obvious answer is yes, but once I did a little outside research, I have found that PA schools are less likely to accept these students in comparison to their white counterparts with less than steller GPA scores and other credentials , in stark contrast to Med School/Nursing programs etc. Why is this? And does anyone of color, or a minority have any experience with this? 

[Guest blee100]

Many programs state they think minorities are important components in the growing healthcare field. (Example is Rutgers) They're not allowed to pick a candidate over someone else based solely on their race because it actually illegal.  

PA school is extremely competitive and is becoming more competitive than med school each cycle. As many other minorities been told growing up, my mother has told me since I was a child that we have to work 10 times as harder. So when it comes to GPA, healthcare experience, personal statement and all. I decided that it was important that I came to the table with each category exceeding the recommended amounts as should you. The video I posted below is something that has really motivated in terms of reaching my goals in this cycle and discusses the importance of minorities in health care. I'm not sure you've tried applying yet but good luck and don't give up. 

 

Also, do you mind attaching the information you found as well because I'm actually interested

 

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by blee100

[DarcyJ 144]

5 hours ago, SammyJo said:

I haven't seen this thread covered yet on the site, but I wanted some insight on something if any of you guys could provide that for me. In correlation to the title of the thread, I have a question regarding minorities in the admission process. Quite simply, do they have a better chance of being accepted into PA school based on race, income level, etc. I know the obvious answer is yes, but once I did a little outside research, I have found that PA schools are less likely to accept these students in comparison to their white counterparts with less than steller GPA scores and other credentials , in stark contrast to Med School/Nursing programs etc. Why is this? And does anyone of color, or a minority have any experience with this? 

I wish I could help you out, but I haven't seen any statistics of this type. I'm very interested though and would love to see some, if you wouldn't mind sharing your sources. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by DarcyJ

[HopefulPA329 28]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 2:01 PM, SammyJo said:

I haven't seen this thread covered yet on the site, but I wanted some insight on something if any of you guys could provide that for me. In correlation to the title of the thread, I have a question regarding minorities in the admission process. Quite simply, do they have a better chance of being accepted into PA school based on race, income level, etc. I know the obvious answer is yes, but once I did a little outside research, I have found that PA schools are less likely to accept these students in comparison to their white counterparts with less than steller GPA scores and other credentials , in stark contrast to Med School/Nursing programs etc. Why is this? And does anyone of color, or a minority have any experience with this? 

I am a minority and first-time generation college graduate and I was denied my first time around. I am currently on my 2nd try. My cGPA is a 3.3 and my sGPA is a 3.3. I have over 7,000hrs of clinical experience in nursing assisting, phlebotomy, and medical technology. However, I did not have a stellar GRE score. It is definitely more difficult for us  to stand out if schools are only looking at scores. The average GRE score for African Americans and Hispanics is less than the average  for other groups due to other factors, such as financial background, low quality education depending on where they grew up, etc. It is very easy for us to get overlooked and lost in the crowd of applicants. I think a good solution to this problem would be starting more PA programs at HBCUs.

[thatgirlonabike 107]

Are there any HBCU PA programs?

[StevenBrule 47]

40 minutes ago, thatgirlonabike said:

Are there any HBCU PA programs?

Pretty sure Charles Drew is 

[HopefulPA329 28]

49 minutes ago, thatgirlonabike said:

Are there any HBCU PA programs?

Meharry started one this year but it might be too late to apply. I think Howard use to have a PA program but idk what happened to it.

[LadyNichiavelli 237]

In addition to those already mentioned, try CCNY. UTSW also emphasizes on the recruitment of disadvantaged minorities.

[Ket131 115]

On 6/11/2018 at 1:01 PM, SammyJo said:

I have found that PA schools are less likely to accept these students in comparison to their white counterparts

Hum, have not experienced this personally.  I am mestizo, and my cohort is fairly diverse.  Also there are simply more white people in the U.S. and are likely to have more white applicants.  

8 hours ago, HopefulPA329 said:

The average GRE score for African Americans and Hispanics is less than the average  for other groups due to other (1)factors, such as financial background, low quality education depending on where they grew up, etc. (2) It is very easy for us to get overlooked and lost in the crowd of applicants. (3) I think a good solution to this problem would be starting more PA programs at HBCUs.

For people who don't know what mestizo is, it is hispanic/native (my mix), but it really depends.  I always check hispanic, check other and type mestizo.  I am also half white.  

1. This is very subjective and it is dangerous to assume that because one is a minority that these factors apply to them or that these factors don't apply to others because they are not that part of that list.  Everyone who sees me assumes I am hispanic and they would be correct, for the most part.  However, I got low test scores because I was lazy when I was in my youth.  Both my parents were MDs and I went to good schools.  I don't fit the narrative and I know there are plethora of others that do not as well.  
2. I think everyone can get lost in the crowd of applicants regardless of race.  You are typically competing with 1500+ other applicants for 30-ish spots, the number speaks for itself.  As said above, there are simply more white people in the U.S. and therefore are likely to have more white applicants.  I also don't think I stood out because I checked the hispanic box, but because I spent over 5000 hours in pathogenics R and D after college, research in plant ecology/microbiology, having different dPCE as a CCHT in dialysis (don't see those too often on this forum), how I presented myself in my essays and how those that wrote my LORs presented me.  
3. I don't think that developing schools for only minorities or targeting minorities is the right approach to getting minorities into healthcare.  Especially if standards for matriculation are lowered to accommodate.  I don't have a solution, other than I think things should be based on merit.  I know I am going to get the finger pointed at me saying "you are not hispanic enough to say this" but I am saying it anyway.  

I sincerely hope that I was not plucked from the pile because I checked a box...that would be a HUGE disappointment.  What I can do is keep doing well in PA school and show myself and my school they did not make a mistake in my selection.  

[HopefulPA329 28]

3 hours ago, Ket131 said:

Hum, have not experienced this personally.  I am mestizo, and my cohort is fairly diverse.  Also there are simply more white people in the U.S. and are likely to have more white applicants.  

For people who don't know what mestizo is, it is hispanic/native (my mix), but it really depends.  I always check hispanic, check other and type mestizo.  I am also half white.  

1. This is very subjective and it is dangerous to assume that because one is a minority that these factors apply to them or that these factors don't apply to others because they are not that part of that list.  Everyone who sees me assumes I am hispanic and they would be correct, for the most part.  However, I got low test scores because I was lazy when I was in my youth.  Both my parents were MDs and I went to good schools.  I don't fit the narrative and I know there are plethora of others that do not as well.  
2. I think everyone can get lost in the crowd of applicants regardless of race.  You are typically competing with 1500+ other applicants for 30-ish spots, the number speaks for itself.  As said above, there are simply more white people in the U.S. and therefore are likely to have more white applicants.  I also don't think I stood out because I checked the hispanic box, but because I spent over 5000 hours in pathogenics R and D after college, research in plant ecology/microbiology, having different dPCE as a CCHT in dialysis (don't see those too often on this forum), how I presented myself in my essays and how those that wrote my LORs presented me.  
3. I don't think that developing schools for only minorities or targeting minorities is the right approach to getting minorities into healthcare.  Especially if standards for matriculation are lowered to accommodate.  I don't have a solution, other than I think things should be based on merit.  I know I am going to get the finger pointed at me saying "you are not hispanic enough to say this" but I am saying it anyway.  

I sincerely hope that I was not plucked from the pile because I checked a box...that would be a HUGE disappointment.  What I can do is keep doing well in PA school and show myself and my school they did not make a mistake in my selection.  

Well, that's good that you are in PA school and grew up in a household with 2 MD parents.... But I am referring to minorities like me: Minorities raised by a single parent who made less than $12,000 a year. Minorities living in the inner cities where not much money is invested in the public schools. Minorities who have to work full-time jobs while in college in order to pay for their housing, food, car, and other necessities. It is very difficult to get a 3.8 or above when you face these kind of obstacles. HBCUs understand the struggles that these kind of students face, so that's why GPA and GRE scores are not severely weighted in their institutions. It's not because students like us are "lazy" or "stupid", we have inherited unfortunate obstacles that are sometimes road blocks. I wish I grew up in a household like yours. Nonetheless, I STILL overcame all those obstacles and still had good stats. My point is, just because we are minorities, it does not give us an advantage over white applicants like some may think. I suggested more HBCU PA programs for these kind of minorities, not minorities like you (no offense), to help solve this problem. HBCUs are a little more understanding and won't just look at us solely based on stats. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by HopefulPA329
spelling

[Ket131 115]

2 hours ago, HopefulPA329 said:

Minorities who have to work full-time jobs while in college in order to pay for their housing, food, car, and other necessities.

Earlier I said it is dangerous to make assumptions.  I worked while in college as well to pay for my rent, internet and food (luckily got two jobs on campus).  I didn't live at home during college and the rule was when you were out of the house you can't come back.  Also, I am not blind to the fact I am blessed for my initial upbringing  After college I got 4.0 while working full time and going to school full time once I got my priorities straight blah blah blah, who cares.  

1 hour ago, HopefulPA329 said:

we have inherited unfortunate obstacles that are sometimes stepping stones

Again, minorities are not the only people who have to do this, there are plenty of white students who have the issues you have.  Also, there is a lot to be said about asians and eastern indians who have to score significantly higher in their entrance exams over all other races to be considered for matriculation (colleges and medical schools in particular), the Pew Research Center has done several articles on this.  Compound that with those which you mentioned would be even more difficult and there are no universities that target solely asian or eastern indians based on circumstances.  The whole thing about not fitting a narrative can be applied in so many ways in addition to the abstract and I don't think I have to paint the pictures.  

"What do you know" is going through your head I am sure, haha.  I don't feel the need to explain my family's rags to riches story (both sides I might add), but it sure meant a lot to my father as a mestizo who refused to go to La Raza.  

1 hour ago, HopefulPA329 said:

My point is, just because we are minorities, it does not give us an advantage over white applicants like some may think. I suggested more HBCU PA programs for these kind of minorities, not minorities like you (no offense), to help solve this problem.

I don't think being a minority should give an advantage and I hope it doesn't.   However, there are schools that are dedicated to accepting only poor minority students as so mentioned earlier in this thread...and I can't think of anything else that is more of an advantage than that.  I mean that is kind of the embodiment of advantage especially if excluding others with identical circumstances but with varying pigmentation.  Also middle of this paragraph is just so funny because I only used myself as an example as not fitting a narrative to allude to the bigger picture, which is more or less summed up above...Perhaps I should have been more descriptive.  

Something to consider is would you rather be the minority who gets in on merit, which it seems like you have plenty of considering the things you have mentioned; the person that a school feels is going to be able to understand medicine and apply it.  Or would you rather be the minority who gets accepted based on social circumstances.   Which by the way, may or may not be taken into consideration post-schooling, just look up Ben Carson and his immediate issue following medical school and how he was stereotyped.  

[HopefulPA329 28]

4 hours ago, Ket131 said:

Earlier I said it is dangerous to make assumptions.  I worked while in college as well to pay for my rent, internet and food (luckily got two jobs on campus).  I didn't live at home during college and the rule was when you were out of the house you can't come back.  Also, I am not blind to the fact I am blessed for my initial upbringing  After college I got 4.0 while working full time and going to school full time once I got my priorities straight blah blah blah, who cares.  

Again, minorities are not the only people who have to do this, there are plenty of white students who have the issues you have.  Also, there is a lot to be said about asians and eastern indians who have to score significantly higher in their entrance exams over all other races to be considered for matriculation (colleges and medical schools in particular), the Pew Research Center has done several articles on this.  Compound that with those which you mentioned would be even more difficult and there are no universities that target solely asian or eastern indians based on circumstances.  The whole thing about not fitting a narrative can be applied in so many ways in addition to the abstract and I don't think I have to paint the pictures.  

"What do you know" is going through your head I am sure, haha.  I don't feel the need to explain my family's rags to riches story (both sides I might add), but it sure meant a lot to my father as a mestizo who refused to go to La Raza.  

I don't think being a minority should give an advantage and I hope it doesn't.   However, there are schools that are dedicated to accepting only poor minority students as so mentioned earlier in this thread...and I can't think of anything else that is more of an advantage than that.  I mean that is kind of the embodiment of advantage especially if excluding others with identical circumstances but with varying pigmentation.  Also middle of this paragraph is just so funny because I only used myself as an example as not fitting a narrative to allude to the bigger picture, which is more or less summed up above...Perhaps I should have been more descriptive.  

Something to consider is would you rather be the minority who gets in on merit, which it seems like you have plenty of considering the things you have mentioned; the person that a school feels is going to be able to understand medicine and apply it.  Or would you rather be the minority who gets accepted based on social circumstances.   Which by the way, may or may not be taken into consideration post-schooling, just look up Ben Carson and his immediate issue following medical school and how he was stereotyped.  

Assuming that HBCUs only accept students without “merit” is dangerous and shows you actually don’t know much about their institutions. There are tons of students at HBCUs with amazing stats who preferred to attend a more culturally diverse university. And I hope you understand that HBCUs don’t only accept people of “pigmentation”. There are white people who fall within the category of minority that get accepted to HBCUs. I don’t get your purpose of mentioning Ben Carson because he didn’t even attend an HBCU- he went to Yale for undergrad, then went to the University of Michigan for med school. If you do your research on him, you will find that he fell behind academically at the Detroit public schools, so his mother took him out and put him in predominantly white schools from 5th-8th grade. He then went back to a predominantly black school for high school and still got in Yale. Ben Carson was stereotyped like any other typical black man in America. It had nothing to do with his education; it was because he was a black man in medicine... And if you’re trying to imply in your last paragraph that HBCUs have lower quality education, then that tells me you are making assumptions. Some of the most successful and most influential black people graduated from HBCUs, including medical doctors (look it up). Like I said previously, I am suggesting more HBCUs to start PA programs so that minorities have a fair chance in the process. Some schools will immediately filter your application out if you don’t have stellar stats without looking at the applicant as a whole. Minorities are not asking for a handout, we are asking for a chance. We are by no means “lazy” people. We have to work 10 times harder than everyone else just to prove ourselves to people who make ridiculous assumptions about us.

[daydreamy 72]

3 hours ago, HopefulPA329 said:

Assuming that HBCUs only accept students without “merit” is dangerous and shows you actually don’t know much about their institutions. There are tons of students at HBCUs with amazing stats who preferred to attend a more culturally diverse university. And I hope you understand that HBCUs don’t only accept people of “pigmentation”. There are white people who fall within the category of minority that get accepted to HBCUs. I don’t get your purpose of mentioning Ben Carson because he didn’t even attend an HBCU- he went to Yale for undergrad, then went to the University of Michigan for med school. If you do your research on him, you will find that he fell behind academically at the Detroit public schools, so his mother took him out and put him in predominantly white schools from 5th-8th grade. He then went back to a predominantly black school for high school and still got in Yale. Ben Carson was stereotyped like any other typical black man in America. It had nothing to do with his education; it was because he was a black man in medicine... And if you’re trying to imply in your last paragraph that HBCUs have lower quality education, then that tells me you are making assumptions. Some of the most successful and most influential black people graduated from HBCUs, including medical doctors (look it up). Like I said previously, I am suggesting more HBCUs to start PA programs so that minorities have a fair chance in the process. Some schools will immediately filter your application out if you don’t have stellar stats without looking at the applicant as a whole. Minorities are not asking for a handout, we are asking for a chance. We are by no means “lazy” people. We have to work 10 times harder than everyone else just to prove ourselves to people who make ridiculous assumptions about us.

There are studies that prove that children who are disadvantaged earlier in life are much less likely to succeed academically, so @HopefulPA329 is correct (also, it's their lived experience...). There are also studies that prove that black and brown children are more likely to grow up in these conditions (systemic racism is a thing) and thus are less likely to excel or succeed. The education system has been the same for nearly 200 years (although, PBL is fantastic and we are lucky that it is being implemented, especially in predominantly black schools in Detroit right now), and it is well known that the system established was to specifically educate white children in the United States. Black and brown people were barred from even learning how to read, and not only that, but when slavery was *abolished*, the schools they attended were (and still are) given hand-me-down supplies and outdated books. A lot of this keeps black and brown folks from overcoming poverty, thus perpetuating a racist system.

@HopefulPA329 is right: people don't want hand-outs (although, I'm not opposed to the reparations debate for black and brown folks), they just want a fighting chance.

While I am white, I was houseless in high school and abused growing up. I had to claw my way out of the trauma and psychological distress my environment caused me, and I'm very lucky that I was given an opportunity (probably partly because of the color of my skin) to eventually learn how to succeed in college.

Now, in regards to PA programs, there is some truth to what @Ket131 is saying about getting lost in the mess. PA school is highly competitive, and I am sure that, just solely based on the percentage of white people who enter college vs black and brown folks, there are many more white students applying to PA programs than black and brown students. My overall GPA is low (you know, from learning that I didn't have to be in survival mode all of the time, and finally being able to focus on my studies), so it is very frustrating for me when I see high cut-offs for GPA's. I spoke with a Thomas Jefferson adviser who didn't care about my story, he just said, "don't even bother applying here. Save your money." It's true: there are many PA programs that don't give minority students a fighting chance. The good news is, however, that for every program like that, there's another program out there that uses a holistic approach for selecting their students.

South University, Charles R Drew, Samuel Merritt, USC Keck, Northwestern, Cornell, NOVA... there are many programs out there. You just have to do the research. I think there's even a pinned post at the top of the general PA discussion page that outlines PA programs who have lower cut-offs for GPA's.

Edited August 8, 2018 by daydreamy

[HopefulPA329 28]

3 hours ago, daydreamy said:

There are studies that prove that children who are disadvantaged earlier in life are much less likely to succeed academically, so @HopefulPA329 is correct (also, it's their lived experience...). There are also studies that prove that black and brown children are more likely to grow up in these conditions (systemic racism is a thing) and thus are less likely to excel or succeed. The education system has been the same for nearly 200 years (although, PBL is fantastic and we are lucky that it is being implemented, especially in predominantly black schools in Detroit right now), and it is well known that the system established was to specifically educate white children in the United States. Black and brown people were barred from even learning how to read, and not only that, but when slavery was *abolished*, the schools they attended were (and still are) given hand-me-down supplies and outdated books. A lot of this keeps black and brown folks from overcoming poverty, thus perpetuating a racist system.

@HopefulPA329 is right: people don't want hand-outs (although, I'm not opposed to the reparations debate for black and brown folks), they just want a fighting chance.

While I am white, I was houseless in high school and abused growing up. I had to claw my way out of the trauma and psychological distress my environment caused me, and I'm very lucky that I was given an opportunity (probably partly because of the color of my skin) to eventually learn how to succeed in college.

Now, in regards to PA programs, there is some truth to what @Ket131 is saying about getting lost in the mess. PA school is highly competitive, and I am sure that, just solely based on the percentage of white people who enter college vs black and brown folks, there are many more white students applying to PA programs than black and brown students. My overall GPA is low (you know, from learning that I didn't have to be in survival mode all of the time, and finally being able to focus on my studies), so it is very frustrating for me when I see high cut-offs for GPA's. I spoke with a Thomas Jefferson adviser who didn't care about my story, he just said, "don't even bother applying here. Save your money." It's true: there are many PA programs that don't give minority students a fighting chance. The good news is, however, that for every program like that, there's another program out there that uses a holistic approach for selecting their students.

South University, Charles R Drew, Samuel Merritt, USC Keck, Northwestern, Cornell, NOVA... there are many programs out there. You just have to do the research. I think there's even a pinned post at the top of the general PA discussion page that outlines PA programs who have lower cut-offs for GPA's.

@daydreamy I am really glad that you are a white person who is not blind to systemic racism. Predominantly white colleges and universities have a history of systematically keeping black people out of their schools, hence the reason why HBCUs were developed. They still have ways of keeping us out by setting high GPA and GRE cut-offs, knowing that those scores are out of reach for many minorities... I have attached a photo of a post I saw on the reseaudocteur Instagram account. White medical schools were denying black applications solely based on skin color only 59 years ago! For Ket131 to discredit HBCUs and imply that the students there don't have merit and only get in for their pigmentation is sad. I also agree that there are some programs developing holistic approaches now. My first time applying to PA schools, I made the mistake of applying to schools that didn't utilize a holistic approach. This time around, I applied to schools with a holistic approach, and I applied to an HBCU. Hopefully it works out for me this time around.  

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by HopefulPA329
spelling

[daydreamy 72]

3 hours ago, HopefulPA329 said:

@daydreamy I am really glad that you are a white person who is not blind to systemic racism. Predominantly white colleges and universities have a history of systematically keeping black people out of their schools, hence the reason why HBCUs were developed. They still have ways of keeping us out by setting high GPA and GRE cut-offs, knowing that those scores are out of reach for many minorities... I have attached a photo of a post I saw on the reseaudocteur Instagram account. White medical schools were denying black applications solely based on skin color only 59 years ago! For Ket131 to discredit HBCUs and imply that the students there don't have merit and only get in for their pigmentation is sad. I also agree that there are some programs developing holistic approaches now. My first time applying to PA schools, I made the mistake of applying to schools that didn't utilize a holistic approach. This time around, I applied to schools with a holistic approach, and I applied to an HBCU. Hopefully it works out for me this time around.  

 

As a white person, the least I can do is recognize my privilege and educate other folks who may be blind to systemic racism. It's an atrocity that folks need to own up to and actively work to change rather than ignore, in my opinion. That photo you shared is horrifying. While most folks may not be so blatantly ignorant and discriminatory today (wait... white nationalists are alive and well, but you know what I mean) many still reproduce internalized racism and misogyny in ways that are much more discrete, but just as harmful.

As future medical providers we need to understand this. Black people are statistically more likely to die and suffer from chronic pain because their healthcare providers do not believe them. Always always always ask yourself why. Why am I ordering this? Why am I second guessing this persons symptoms? Am I providing the same medical care I would for my favorite person in this entire world? Oh yeah and... we definitely need more black and brown healthcare providers. So when you future PA's are sitting on admissions boards, maybe consider putting up a fight for those who are most often ignored. Just a thought

Good luck this cycle, @HopefulPA329, and everyone else who has to fight a fight that is unknown to or underappreciated by most of us applicants.

[StevenBrule 47]

31 minutes ago, daydreamy said:

As a white person, the least I can do is recognize my privilege and educate other folks who may be blind to systemic racism. It's an atrocity that folks need to own up to and actively work to change rather than ignore, in my opinion. That photo you shared is horrifying. While most folks may not be so blatantly ignorant and discriminatory today (wait... white nationalists are alive and well, but you know what I mean) many still reproduce internalized racism and misogyny in ways that are much more discrete, but just as harmful.

As future medical providers we need to understand this. Black people are statistically more likely to die and suffer from chronic pain because their healthcare providers do not believe them. Always always always ask yourself why. Why am I ordering this? Why am I second guessing this persons symptoms? Am I providing the same medical care I would for my favorite person in this entire world? Oh yeah and... we definitely need more black and brown healthcare providers. So when you future PA's are sitting on admissions boards, maybe consider putting up a fight for those who are most often ignored. Just a thought

Good luck this cycle, @HopefulPA329, and everyone else who has to fight a fight that is unknown to or underappreciated by most of us applicants.

There is a term I learned in Ethics, and I believe it is common practice at most institutions, where essentially two people of equal merit in every respect--GPA, volunteer, work related experience (healthcare related expereince) apply for the position but if the institution has some sort of affirmative action policy in place, the "minority" applicant is given the seat over the "white" applicant. Forgive me I genuinely can't remember the term (it's a form of affirmative action meant to temporarily offset the aftermath of Jim Crow segregation and unofficial racist policies of earlier part of the 20th century), but I believe it's relevant to college, PA, Med school admissions. 

If this is indeed  the case for PA school admissions, wouldn't those minority individuals who make it above the cut-off for GPA, GRE, scores essentially stand a greater chance over white applicants with similar scores?

Of course the problem still exists that a higher percentage of minority applicants hold traditionally lower scores as previously mentioned in this thread but if there's  a former adcom member out there who could chime in, I'd love to know.

Edited August 8, 2018 by StevenBrule

[prepa1997 30]

42 minutes ago, StevenBrule said:

There is a term I learned in Ethics, and I believe it is common practice at most institutions, where essentially two people of equal merit in every respect--GPA, volunteer, work related experience (healthcare related expereince) apply for the position but if the institution has some sort of affirmative action policy in place, the "minority" applicant is given the seat over the "white" applicant. Forgive me I genuinely can't remember the term (it's a form of affirmative action meant to temporarily offset the aftermath of Jim Crow segregation and unofficial racist policies of earlier part of the 20th century), but I believe it's relevant to college, PA, Med school admissions. 

If this is indeed  the case for PA school admissions, wouldn't those minority individuals who make it above the cut-off for GPA, GRE, scores essentially stand a greater chance over white applicants with similar scores?

Of course the problem still exists that a higher percentage of minority applicants hold traditionally lower scores as previously mentioned in this thread but if there's  a former adcom member out there who could chime in, I'd love to know.

@StevenBrule Steven, I'm not sure if you been watching the news recently but Donald Trump just rescinded this affirmative action policy that you're speaking about a few months ago which was an Obama policy. Institutions do not have to give minorities any advantage whatsoever anymore. (Just google it and you'll see multiple credible sources talking about the impact of taking this away)

Edited August 8, 2018 by blee100

[hmtpnw 280]

39 minutes ago, StevenBrule said:

There is a term I learned in Ethics, and I believe it is common practice at most institutions, where essentially two people of equal merit in every respect--GPA, volunteer, work related experience (healthcare related expereince) apply for the position but if the institution has some sort of affirmative action policy in place, the "minority" applicant is given the seat over the "white" applicant. Forgive me I genuinely can't remember the term (it's a form of affirmative action meant to temporarily offset the aftermath of Jim Crow segregation and unofficial racist policies of earlier part of the 20th century), but I believe it's relevant to college, PA, Med school admissions. 

If this is indeed  the case for PA school admissions, wouldn't those minority individuals who make it above the cut-off for GPA, GRE, scores essentially stand a greater chance over white applicants with similar scores?

Of course the problem still exists that a higher percentage of minority applicants hold traditionally lower scores as previously mentioned in this thread but if there's  a former adcom member out there who could chime in, I'd love to know.

From my understanding many PA programs don’t utilize affirmative action policies. It’s school specific. 

This is significantly different from med school admissions if my understanding is correct. For med school different sets of MCAT score averages and GPA averages are utilized when evaluating applicants who are certain minority populations or fall into specific low economic status categories.

I don’t think this is the case for PA programs unless specified by the policies of the school. 

[Aware 33]

Believe it or not, the two opposing arguments in this thread are kinda saying similar things. 

Ket's point is simply saying that race alone should not have an impact on one's admission. It's the experience and adversity one goes through in life that makes one unique, not one's race. Minorities who happen to face a profusion of adversity in their upbringing should absolutely be considered even if their stats are a bit lower than the what is typically wanted. However, that should also apply to a white person who has gone through similar adversity should it not? 

Lots of programs are holistic, I didn't come across one that wasn't when I was applying. I'm surprised a 3.3 with 7k hours on top of your personal merit didn't get you into a program.

[JD2012 298]

5 minutes ago, blee100 said:

@StevenBrule Steven, I'm not sure if you been watching the news recently but Donald Trump just rescinded this affirmative action policy that you're speaking about a few months ago which was an Obama policy. Institutions do not have to give minorities any advantage whatsoever anymore. (Just google it and you'll see multiple credible sources talking about the impact of taking this away)

It was started by JFK in 1961.  Tell us how you really feel! 

Anyway, minority PA-S here. 1st gen high school grad as well as college along with low socioeconomic status growing up. 

I had to apply twice and finally accepted on my 2nd round but I did have to strengthen my application.  I really don't think just checking off the box will get you in or else I would have gotten in on my first try. I don't think it's as big of an advantage as some would believe.

PS- having parents who graduated from medical school, let alone any college, makes a HUUUUGE difference from having parents who never did. 

 

[daydreamy 72]

8 minutes ago, Aware said:

Believe it or not, the two opposing arguments in this thread are kinda saying similar things. 

Ket's point is simply saying that race alone should not have an impact on one's admission. It's the experience and adversity one goes through in life that makes one unique, not one's race. Minorities who happen to face a profusion of adversity in their upbringing should absolutely be considered even if their stats are a bit lower than the what is typically wanted. However, that should also apply to a white person who has gone through similar adversity should it not? 

Lots of programs are holistic, I didn't come across one that wasn't when I was applying. I'm surprised a 3.3 with 7k hours on top of your personal merit didn't get you into a program.

I understand what you're trying to say, but to assume race doesn't have anything to do with one's advantages and disadvantages in life I think is incorrect. Additionally, as per what's written above, not every program uses a holistic approach. But you're right in that many programs do, and those are the ones worth applying to for those who have faced significant disadvantages in life.

[prepa1997 30]

1 minute ago, JD2012 said:

It was started by JFK in 1961.  Tell us how you really feel! 

Anyway, minority PA-S here. 1st gen high school grad as well as college along with low socioeconomic status growing up. 

I had to apply twice and finally accepted on my 2nd round but I did have to strengthen my application.  I really don't think just checking off the box will get you in or else I would have gotten in on my first try. I don't think it's as big of an advantage as some would believe.

PS- having parents who graduated from medical school, let alone any college, makes a HUUUUGE difference from having parents who never did. 

 

How I really feel? I'm not sure if you realize their multiple federal orders under affirmative action. The JFK affirmative action your speaking about is the original one that under the employment component. Just to clarify this discussion focused on universities if you weren't aware. Please take the time to do research before trying to turn what I say into something political. Also congrats on your acceptance.  If you didn't feel like taking the time to google I posted literally the first article that shows up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/us/politics/trump-affirmative-action-race-schools.html

[JD2012 298]

1 minute ago, daydreamy said:

I understand what you're trying to say, but to assume race doesn't have anything to do with one's advantages and disadvantages in life I think is incorrect. Additionally, as per what's written above, not every program uses a holistic approach. But you're right in that many programs do, and those are the ones worth applying to for those who have faced significant disadvantages in life.

Agreed there's definitely some disadvantages especially as an immigrant who comes later in life and has to learn a new language, assimilate to a new way of life, etc..  

In the end I think it's just a case by case basis.  What stands out for that particular application and if its the best fit for their program. At the end of the day I dont think any two applications are exactly the same, and if they are then I think the personal statement and LOR's are what it will come down to.

[JD2012 298]

3 minutes ago, blee100 said:

How I really feel? I'm not sure if you realize their multiple federal orders under affirmative action. The JFK affirmative action your speaking about is the original one that under the employment component. Just to clarify this discussion focused on universities if you weren't aware. Please take the time to do research before trying to turn what I say into something political. Also congrats on your acceptance.  If you didn't feel like taking the time to google I posted literally the first article that shows up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/us/politics/trump-affirmative-action-race-schools.html

It's finals week.  

[daydreamy 72]

2 minutes ago, JD2012 said:

Agreed there's definitely some disadvantages especially as an immigrant who comes later in life and has to learn a new language, assimilate to a new way of life, etc..  

In the end I think it's just a case by case basis.  What stands out for that particular application and if its the best fit for their program. At the end of the day I dont think any two applications are exactly the same, and if they are then I think the personal statement and LOR's are what it will come down to.

I feel you and ultimately agree, I guess I just have a different understanding of systemic power dynamics. At the end of the day, I think most of us are here and sacrificing so much because we care about people and the betterment of humanity. That's what really matters. I just don't want to discount a black or brown person's lived experiences, which, statistically consist of many systemic disadvantages that work against them trying to break barriers - such as becoming a healthcare provider.