FutureEVMSPA Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) Annnndddd now I just got the rejection as well... Edited July 30, 2019 by FutureEVMSPA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amakkaoui Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I just got my rejection email tonight. Here’s hope to the rest of you guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patobe82 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I got mine too. I’m not giving up I’m already thinking of what I can do to improve my application for March!!!! Don’t give up Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SecondCareerPrePA Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Sorry to everyone who received a rejection letter. Even though I did not, I've still put the wheels in motion toward taking another class and reapplying. If I get some sort of official waitlist notification, that still means it could be as late as December that I get a seat or a letter of rejection. I can't just resubmit the same app without improving on it. So, back to the books I guess. Best of luck to all of you with whatever you decide to do next. It's been nerve-racking and heartbreaking for a lot of us, and I hope it's never this difficult for any of you again Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheMusicPA Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 hours ago, BeAPA716 said: I just said the same thing. OMG. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pafuture1234 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I haven't received anything as of yet. Have they contacted everyone whether they have been rejected, waitlisted or accepted? Or do I still have some hope lol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeAPA716 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, pafuture1234 said: I haven't received anything as of yet. Have they contacted everyone whether they have been rejected, waitlisted or accepted? Or do I still have some hope lol? several of us haven't heard anything. I guess they are waiting to get all 80 deposits before finalizing the waitlist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pafuture1234 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 10 hours ago, BeAPA716 said: several of us haven't heard anything. I guess they are waiting to get all 80 deposits before finalizing the waitlist That's what I like to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234PA1994 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) On 7/29/2019 at 10:01 AM, GapLustrum said: ^Brand new account, 1st post, from a "student" subtly criticizing EVMS right after initial acceptances go out and people are waiting to see if spots open up from people declining their offer...while all the current students on the facebook page and in real life have nothing but great things to say about the school...not suspicious at all, nope... I assure you I am a current student and doing quite well. I wish I could exercise my right to free speech and discuss my concerns openly, but unfortunately I do not feel that would be a smart career move. I don’t know how to say this without sounding condescending, but if I only heard “nothing but great things about the school from all current students I’ve encountered” then that would be a rather large red flag to me. I am trying to remain as neutral as possible but still make a comment that may indicate to the astute applicant to dig a little deeper and maybe seek out students that aren’t volunteering to show you around the school. Maybe you would then make a more informed decision about your choice of school to attend. Edited August 1, 2019 by 1234PA1994 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234PA1994 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 On 7/29/2019 at 3:06 PM, SecondCareerPrePA said: How likely is it that a current or former student navigates to this page to vent about their expectations being disappointed? It's also likely that an applicant who was unfamiliar with the institution was not satisfied with their interview experience. Over 170 applicants interviewed, and the school did not leave the same impression on everyone. Internet forums are prone to people sharing opinions, but unless you share your story and identify where you are in your journey, opinions about institutions are just that. We've all gone to college, some multiple, and we've all had good and bad experiences. So, I guess I'm saying, read the room This thread is a great place for applicants to EVMS to support each other through their journey. Many are already on to the next cycle, some were accepted to EVMS MPA, and about ninety of us are still on the edge of our seat to hear anything at all. If this program doesn't fit the bill for you, your personal experiences helped determine that. You'll find your path. To those that are still excited about the opportunity to be a part of this program (the one this thread is about), I'm with you. If you interviewed and you're still waiting to hear, remember, none of us knows our rank and any one of us could be getting a call in the next week that we've been accepted. So stay positive, and keep going after what you want. Things have a funny way of working out when you're giving it your all, sometimes it might take longer than you anticipated. Tom (second time applying, first time interviewed, not in the 80 initial acceptances) You’re partially correct (minus the characterization that my initial post was “venting”, as that would imply it was written with emotionally charged language) as it serves almost no benefit to a current student to give their honest criticism of a program they are going to graduate from. I did think about saying nothing, but I think it’s unfair to those on here to get a skewed perspective going into the application process or making such an important school decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeAPA716 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, 1234PA1994 said: I assure you I am a current student and doing quite well. I wish I could exercise my right to free speech and discuss my concerns openly, but unfortunately I do not feel that would be a smart career move. I don’t know how to say this without sounding condescending, but if I only heard “nothing but great things about the school from all current students I’ve encountered” then that would be a rather large red flag to me. I am trying to remain as neutral as possible but still make a comment that may indicate to the astute applicant to dig a little deeper and maybe seek out students that aren’t volunteering to show you around the school. Maybe you would then make a more informed decision about your choice of school to attend. Would you mind sharing your specific grievances with the program rather than speaking in vague terms, either here or via private message where your anonymity would further be protected? I've had interviews with programs that I did NOT feel confident in that schools ability to provide a decent education. Although I overall had a positive experience at EVMS I would love to hear your perspective. Sarah Edited August 1, 2019 by BeAPA716 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonist55 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1234PA1994 As a current student of the 2021 class I can say that of course our program has some downfalls, some professors that are turds, etc. but I will never regret my decision to deny several top rated programs, to move across the country away from my husband and family. EVMS is more than just a PA program. We are a family that supports each other through the hard times which make the downfalls of the program (whatever they may be) not matter in the long run. As the current director of our program, Dr. Dempsey, would say “if you have a criticism or critique you shouldn’t be afraid to put your face on it”. My name is Sandi Tobin, MPA-S and I approve this message. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234PA1994 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 On 7/29/2019 at 12:17 PM, GapLustrum said: I would hope that fake accounts would be discredited. As much as I'd love to live in a world where everyone was who they say they are on the internet, I'm afraid I've seen time and time again that's not always the case. Sorry if you took offense to me reminding people to remain skeptical of anonymous anecdotes. I too want this to continue to be a place where people can share freely whatever they choose, but open discussion includes some criticism and even some stepping on toes now and then. It’s good to exercise critical thinking skills and to question things, especially anonymous comments. in fact, it’s a good skill for learning and practicing medicine in general. I just hope you treat all comments with the same type of criticism. There is a lot to say about “staying positive” and as I mentioned, there are some good things about the program. However,, since I felt that the comments on here overall don’t accurately reflect what I personally see and also hear from many students in my class, then I just wanted to let people know they should do more digging. I feel I was thoughtful in my original comment without disparaging the program altogether. But I think that for positive change to occur there needs to be reflection on aspects that can be improved. If you have more questions about the program in general, I will answer them privately in a professional manner. I’m not here to give dirt on the program, but there are many issues that I feel are a hindrance to student success and those are what I am concerned about. I’m spending a lot of time answer these responses, so I hope by now you realize that I’m not a troll. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234PA1994 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, GapLustrum said: It's kind of a dick move timing wise if you really are a current student. I feel like the time for constructive criticism is either pre-interviews or post-rejections, not a few days after acceptances when people are celebrating the opportunity of getting in. Most applicants aren't really deciding between multiple acceptances in that 5-10 day window. They've made up their mind. Applying elsewhere needed to happen in like April/May. Just raining on people's parades at that point. So you think my motivations were to quote “be a dick”? I feel your frustration is misdirected and I’m sorry you feel that way. I didn’t personally attack you or anyone else and actually I was encouraging those who did not get in to keep working hard. I’m sorry if you need an artificial sense that things are “great” or “awesome” to realize that getting into any PA program in-and-of-itself is already a huge achievement that should go without saying. Furthermore, I’m not intending to take that away from anyone. I’m not monitoring these boards to time things a certain way, but I was recently thinking about future students and wanted to post my ideas out of concern. There have been many students that seem to love every bit of the EVMS program and culture, and I’m happy for them. I feel the program fits a certain personality, and it’s not strictly limited to who will make a compassionate provider or good future PA. I’ve also seen many other students not have that experience, so any comments I’ve made were from a principled sense of wanting to help people who may be making tough, expensive life choices. Hopefully you’ll make it in and get to have your own experience, and I hope it’s a good one. I’ve worked extremely hard to get into school and know how difficult it is, and there was no intention to bring anyone down. I just have noticed some things seem to have been pervasive here and felt it would be unfair for future prospective students to not know what they are getting in to. Good luck with your future endeavors! I really do wish you success in your application process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234PA1994 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, FeelTheMusicPA said: The way you guys attacked this current student for sharing their experience, makes me hope I never see any of y’all faces in the classroom, hospital, or operating room. Yall one sad bunch of individuals to say “dick” and tell people to time their comments or save them for another forum because they make you uncomfortable by shattering the image you got engraved in your head of EVMS. No wonder y’all on the outside trying to look in. Thank you @1234PA1994 for sharing with us. Trust me it was well received by those us of willing to hear what you said in a constructive manner. It definitely challenged me and definitelty reminded me of the red flag about EVMS mentioned in the news a few months back about the black face incident and the yearbook. If perspective students who want to get in so badly can’t appreciate/accept different opinions/experiences please tell me if this is not a reflection of how this school probably treats minorities and the “little” people in the room? Since we want to talk about only the good experiences at EVMS @Bonist55 what was the discussion concerning the black face and the yearbook? Was there even a discussion or a message from the university addressing this revelation? Because the way this thread spiraling downwards, I now have major concerns that we’re once minimal. Thank you for listening. If it helps one student made a more educated decision on this very important choice then it is worth the ridicule. Even speaking out anonymously isn’t exactly comfortable, but I personally feel that if I can’t even do something like this, how am I going to actually have the willpower to stand up and make an ethical or moral decision on behalf of a patient when it really counts? Often doing the right thing is difficult, and I think its because during these circumstances you are usually pushing against long standing preexisting paradigms that many perceive as “normal” or “right”. This even applies to the blackface incident. It is hard to believe that this was not discussed back in 1984 amongst any of the faculty or students, or their families. I find that impossible to believe, but that is what we have all been told to believe by current faculty and staff. To be fair, the current president did hold a lot of meetings with students and media to discuss this, but things would improve with adding diversity of color and actually diverse backgrounds to the faculty at EVMS. That could have a more systemic effect than just trying to recruit more students of color. Edited August 2, 2019 by 1234PA1994 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
definitelydidntgotoevms Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 7 hours ago, 1234PA1994 said: I assure you I am a current student and doing quite well. I wish I could exercise my right to free speech and discuss my concerns openly, but unfortunately I do not feel that would be a smart career move. I don’t know how to say this without sounding condescending, but if I only heard “nothing but great things about the school from all current students I’ve encountered” then that would be a rather large red flag to me. I am trying to remain as neutral as possible but still make a comment that may indicate to the astute applicant to dig a little deeper and maybe seek out students that aren’t volunteering to show you around the school. Maybe you would then make a more informed decision about your choice of school to attend. (I'm sure this response will be a massive waste of time but hey) You don't have to do much digging to find dirt. During the interview process, there are plenty of students who didn't volunteer who might make a sly comment here and there. After the interview, at the bar, there are plenty of students who will disparage the program if you ask. I personally think that you should take everything you hear from these people with an ocean of salt, and I'm speaking as someone who is very familiar with them. I'm not all sunshine and rainbows, either, but your first post is hardly helping anyone. You sat around and had sooo much concern for the interviewees that you had to post for them to dig deeper, as if they're running a con operation at EVMS. You got called a dick because you were being a bit condescending in your subsequent replies. Some of the grievances that students have against the program are well founded, and the school generally attempts to address those semester to semester. The vast majority, however, are rooted in the fact that you're throwing 80 people in a room who have generally passed with ease, and suddenly life isn't super easy. Stress runs high, things are "unfair", the workload is immense, and people break down. It's something that happens everywhere. EVMS is not presenting the program as something that it isn't. I'm not sure where you got that idea, exactly, because I know where you would've gotten your information about the program. And they've been talking about "radical changes" to the program for at least a few years. I'm not sure why that would influence anyone's decision to come to EVMS. They just pretty radically changed the PANCE too. Things change. Long story short: there's a lot of whining in PA school. A LOT. It's really not that difficult to make it through. Just put your head down and study. To everyone who got in, congrats! To everyone on the wait list, best of luck to you. I know there are a lot of people sick to their stomachs and reloading their email every hour. People who disparage the program they're at need to take a second and reflect on how lucky they are to be in that seat. 32 minutes ago, FeelTheMusicPA said: The way you guys attacked this current student for sharing their experience, makes me hope I never see any of y’all faces in the classroom, hospital, or operating room. Yall one sad bunch of individuals to say “dick” and tell people to time their comments or save them for another forum because they make you uncomfortable by shattering the image you got engraved in your head of EVMS. No wonder y’all on the outside trying to look in. Thank you @1234PA1994 for sharing with us. Trust me it was well received by those us of willing to hear what you said in a constructive manner. It definitely challenged me and definitelty reminded me of the red flag about EVMS mentioned in the news a few months back about the black face incident and the yearbook. If perspective students who want to get in so badly can’t appreciate/accept different opinions/experiences please tell me if this is not a reflection of how this school probably treats minorities and the “little” people in the room? Since we want to talk about only the good experiences at EVMS @Bonist55 what was the discussion concerning the black face and the yearbook? Was there even a discussion or a message from the university addressing this revelation? Because the way this thread spiraling downwards, I now have major concerns that we’re once minimal. I started to reply to this, but there's just so much ridiculousness here that it's difficult. Did you really just wonder aloud if EVMS is racist because PROSPECTIVE students on a message board disagreed with what this 1234 person said? Because it takes next level mental gymnastics to do that, bravo madam/sir. Bravo. Like, what? Wow. I'm flabbergasted. If you did some research on your own, instead of just asking inflammatory questions, you'll see that there were many events held by the university to discuss this occurrence. There was open communication between the board and the student body, including a few town halls and open meetings. Jeeze man, seriously? Smmfh 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234PA1994 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, SecondCareerPrePA said: This thread is for applicants at the end of a cycle. That is, they've applied, interviewed, and 90% have already received their rejection letters. There's 80 who have been extended acceptance offers, and a handful that are still waiting to hear about open seats and the wait list. That handful of us are here to support each other. We are all in that boat together, and any one of us could get a call tomorrow that there is a seat available. None of us are "going into the application process". A great deal of us did our homework to make this decision. I've been living down Colley from EVMS for ten years. I work at Norfolk General. My primary care provider at Hague Medical is an EVMS PA (c/o 2017), the PA that I shadowed with Sentara Orthopaedic is an EVMS PA (c/o 2016), a former coworker who worked in our OR was c/o 2019, my neighbor is c/o 2020. They advised me through this whole process and they have all been where you are today. The "drinking water from a firehose" analogy was used by each, but they all also said "it's doable" and "you can handle it". That includes you. Those upcoming changes you mention are the alignment of pathophys with anatomy during first year, so that systems are being taught at the same time. It will be immensely helpful to the incoming class to have such a change. The faculty cares about making sure MPA students get through the program. If you haven't reached out to them about your concerns, you should. Even though I only interviewed with a couple, there are some very approachable and down-to-earth faculty that care about the success of their students. If you're class of 2021, you know the two women who gave me a tour at the beginning of July. They were super helpful and honest actually. When you get to your rotations, you might finally feel like it was all worth it, but clearly right now, you are deep in the thick of it. You may even be thankful that you chose a school that can connect you to rotations instead of leaving you to fend for yourself like some programs do. You also have a faculty deeply concerned about how changes to the PANCE are affecting first-time pass rates, nationally, and I trust that you will get some great support to pass your PANCE due to those changes. There are so many schools and so many programs to choose from, but "cast a wide net" doesn't suit everyone in this thread. Some of us want to go to EVMS, and we are well-educated as to why someone would want to go there and why someone else would not. Since you did not share any specifics about your own personal pros and cons, it's definitely venting, because it isn't serving any of us as much as it is serving you. You are making a lot of assumptions in your comment here. You are assuming that surely I just must have been stressed out with the work-load and therefore I am motivated to comment on here by what, revenge? I’ve done very well in school and any added stress to my life had nothing to do with the workload or amount of information. If a student was motivated enough, they could get through the lecture portion in 1 year. How do you know if the faculty are deeply concerned about students if you yourself are not a student and haven’t experienced difficulty while in school here? Sure, you could hear second hand from someone you know, but it’s not the same. I just don’t know how you feel you can or should make that king of blanket statement. Some teachers are great and more helpful and genuine than others, but until you have been through the program how is it that you think you can make such a comment? How can you make such assumptions about how clinicals are more organized than other programs without having experienced it here? I feel you are pretty condescending in your statement offering me, a current student who has done well in my studies, advice on how to get through school. My advice to you, don’t make assumptions about things your don’t know and when you do have life experiences be honest with yourself and others around you regarding those experiences. That is the only way you will grow. Good luck! Edited August 2, 2019 by 1234PA1994 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234PA1994 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, FeelTheMusicPA said: And this was my point EXACTLY! I can tell by the responses on this forum there is a lack of diversity among applicants. Saw it at the interview as well and in the students who volunteered their time! This one track thinking on this forum. You said NOTHING disparaging about the program but because you didn’t give a 10/10 review of the school you attend you were attacked for stating your truth and experience. Then told by a current student to reveal your identity! Wow. Guess they wanted to further lynch you. I want to attend a school where diversity is celebrated- whether it’s train of thought or skin color or cultural! Great the president addressed it but that explanation- laughable. Again, thank you for your transparency and honesty! I hope people really ask questions for themselves and decide. I know I now will. The school prioritizes the appearance of diversity over the actual real changes needed to diversify its’ student body. The school spent I-don’t-know-how-much money to bring in an investigator to spend months finding out that they couldn’t find out who was in the picture. What a waste. All the while there was not a single instance of training in the classroom about these issues. Still the videos of the white coat ceremonies will be edited to make the class look much more diverse than it actually is. Keep critical thinking alive. If you just accept things as they are and tell everyone it’s all “great” and “fantastic” how would real change ever occur? If the only people who complained about problems were those who failed, everyone would just write them off as disgruntled. It’s even more interesting how those who haven’t made it in this program will try to belittle or reduce me to someone who is a failure. I think it is more necessary for people who have been successful despite the problems they see to speak up and try to make a change. There are a lot of challenges in healthcare, and its not going to be the “smooth sailing” that people think its going to be. I love this career, but I want to be an agent for positive change. If that takes popping a few bubbles then so be it. Edited August 2, 2019 by 1234PA1994 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SecondCareerPrePA Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 One important thing I've learned from being enrolled in different schools and programs, both grad and undergrad, and working in different facilities for twenty-plus years: it says more about you than the program when you reduce it while you're still working/studying there. It's like writing a yelp review about how horrible a restaurant is while you are still working there. Who wants a person on their team who is trying to be critical of the operations from the outside? Fix it from within. Improve it while you're there. It seems like you have a lot of energy to invest in just that. If you feel that there is no room for your opinions, then your best bet, to still come off as credible, is to leave. What disguises itself as a real concern for the complete strangers going through a rough interview month, is actually appearing like a cry for help and an attempt to sabotage the program's current admissions project. If the word "unprofessional" seems to keep coming up, maybe step back for a second and think about maturity, professionalism, and how to be a leader. I dare say, this isn't it. All the best, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mems94 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 I just called and as of 12:50p they have not filled all 80 seats yet. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234PA1994 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 3 hours ago, SecondCareerPrePA said: One important thing I've learned from being enrolled in different schools and programs, both grad and undergrad, and working in different facilities for twenty-plus years: it says more about you than the program when you reduce it while you're still working/studying there. It's like writing a yelp review about how horrible a restaurant is while you are still working there. Who wants a person on their team who is trying to be critical of the operations from the outside? Fix it from within. Improve it while you're there. It seems like you have a lot of energy to invest in just that. If you feel that there is no room for your opinions, then your best bet, to still come off as credible, is to leave. What disguises itself as a real concern for the complete strangers going through a rough interview month, is actually appearing like a cry for help and an attempt to sabotage the program's current admissions project. If the word "unprofessional" seems to keep coming up, maybe step back for a second and think about maturity, professionalism, and how to be a leader. I dare say, this isn't it. All the best, Tom I believe you have mischaracterized my original comment. I never intended to “reduce” the program. I just wanted people to know that it’s ok to look at other programs and that the program you go to has less to do with your success than personal hard work, and I’ll stand by that comment any day of the week. I’ve never said I personally have been told I am unprofessional so I’m no sure how you’re coming to that conclusion. In fact, I’ve heard the opposite throughout my experience in school and patient care experiences, and I always try to act with integrity. To say you would legitimately quit any uncomfortable situation because you don’t agree with it as a statement of credibility, at the cost of great financial debt, sounds great but is impractical and ineffective at best. Overall, you make a lot of assumptions in your statements regarding me. I don’t know who you are and therefore will not make judgements on you as a person. I’ll leave that to you and your close friends. That is totally antithetical to scientific and objective reasoning and really serves to purpose but to inflame and seek an emotional reaction, which you will not receive from me on this message board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheMusicPA Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 hours ago, 1234PA1994 said: I believe you have mischaracterized my original comment. I never intended to “reduce” the program. I just wanted people to know that it’s ok to look at other programs and that the program you go to has less to do with your success than personal hard work, and I’ll stand by that comment any day of the week. I’ve never said I personally have been told I am unprofessional so I’m no sure how you’re coming to that conclusion. In fact, I’ve heard the opposite throughout my experience in school and patient care experiences, and I always try to act with integrity. To say you would legitimately quit any uncomfortable situation because you don’t agree with it as a statement of credibility, at the cost of great financial debt, sounds great but is impractical and ineffective at best. Overall, you make a lot of assumptions in your statements regarding me. I don’t know who you are and therefore will not make judgements on you as a person. I’ll leave that to you and your close friends. That is totally antithetical to scientific and objective reasoning and really serves to purpose but to inflame and seek an emotional reaction, which you will not receive from me on this message board. Great Response! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pafuture1234 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Mems94 said: I just called and as of 12:50p they have not filled all 80 seats yet. This is more important than all these other messages. Did they say when they plan on filling the rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mems94 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, pafuture1234 said: This is more important than all these other messages. Did they say when they plan on filling the rest? They didn’t say when.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SecondCareerPrePA Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Monday morning maybe. The wait continues... Best wishes everybody! Our answers are coming soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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