Inaugural PA Online Class - YALE

[camoman1234]

32 minutes ago, MedStudent898989 said:

Here's a website devoted to how you can beat ProctorTrack, the program Yale is using: https://jakebinstein.com/blog/on-knuckle-scanners-and-cheating-how-to-bypass-proctortrack/ . There's a picture on there of what I'm talking about, you basically prop your notes against the computer screen and manipulate your webcam so the program can't detect it. I've never used the program myself, I was a bio TA the semester our college tried it out. Record high midterm scores (using ProctorTrack), followed by record low final scores (not using ProtorTrack). N=1 , but in my experience, it is not a great way to administer tests.

Also, that testing experience sounds awful. Sorry you had to go through it. Take care

OK that is ridiculous, you cannot be switching between long term video feed and short term video feed while taking a timed test. How do you get around the web browser locked down? My wife had a lock down browser like this (different company) and you cannot change your screen or "files" so this is flawed and not ever possible when taking a 60 question test in 60 minutes with a lock down browser....keep trying to debunk this

[Reality Check 2]

Whatever testing holds - I am done with school and continue to learn everyday - my style. I can handle Pearson every 10 years.

NOTHING will ever replace the ability and skills to take a history and touch a patient. 

Just remember that - no matter who you are, what generation you are - patient skills are priceless.

[MedStudent898989]

6 hours ago, camoman1234 said:

OK that is ridiculous, you cannot be switching between long term video feed and short term video feed while taking a timed test. How do you get around the web browser locked down? My wife had a lock down browser like this (different company) and you cannot change your screen or "files" so this is flawed and not ever possible when taking a 60 question test in 60 minutes with a lock down browser....keep trying to debunk this

I don't know how you get around the web browser locked down, nor do I know how you change your screen or "files" when taking a 60 question test in 60 minutes with a lock down browser with the program your wife used from an unspecified company.

The point is that you can cheat with online proctors, as shown by the website linked above. Is it easier to cheat with online proctors than with in-person proctors? My experience (N=1) says yes. This should be a cause for concern. Take care

[camoman1234]

24 minutes ago, MedStudent898989 said:

I don't know how you get around the web browser locked down, nor do I know how you change your screen or "files" when taking a 60 question test in 60 minutes with a lock down browser with the program your wife used from an unspecified company.

The point is that you can cheat with online proctors, as shown by the website linked above. Is it easier to cheat with online proctors than with in-person proctors? My experience (N=1) says yes. This should be a cause for concern. Take care

I would not be taking my info nor trusting it via that blog.

[Kaepora]

I can't tell you how proctor track works because I have never used it.  The program my university uses doesn't use any fancy algorithms or scanners, etc.  It's a person.  They check you in.  They visualize your room.  They personally lock down your screen.  And they watch you and record you until you are done.  I imagine it would be incredibly difficult to cheat.  Can you?  I'm sure somebody somewhere has found a way.  But, then again, you can cheat in a class room.  Cheaters will cheat.

After the first or second time you do it, you're rather used to it and it's not an awful inconvenience.  I just think people are over reacting to the "online" buzzword.  There are plenty of brick and mortar programs that have deficits.

One of the PA programs in my area does physical assessment in 1 week.  And it's an "on campus" program.  I don't care if that's all you're doing for 1 week - that is not the best way to learn physical exam skills.

There's another PA program near me that forgoes testing almost altogether for problem based learning.  So I guess you don't have to worry about cheating in that case.

And yet another PA program near me allows you to remediate a "failed" test or class by writing papers and doing bonus assignments.  And they give multiple bonus points throughout the term.  So not only is it possible to have well over 100% in the class if you do well, you can likewise fail the class (less than an 83 for this program) and, by doing some extra homework, still pass.  And they also have non-proctored online tests at the end of each clinical rotation.

I think a good school like Yale starting an online program is low on the list of concerns.

 

[lemurcatta]

On 4/29/2018 at 5:49 PM, Kaepora said:

No, you can't.  You log in and are met by a proctor.  They take a picture of you, a picture of your government issued ID, and then you answer identification questions about yourself.  They then "secure the room".  They ask to see the front and back of your hands.  You must have a mirror behind you so they can see the computer screen and in front of you and they ask for you to specifically show them your screen and keyboard.  You are required to show all four walls of the room above and below your desk surface.  Then they as you to show them your phone and set it aside out of your reach and you have to show them where you set it.  You also must be in a room, alone.  No one is allowed in or out during the exam or they immediately end the exam and you fail.  Then they lock your computer screen and disable your ability to access other apps, and also disable your ability to take screen shots.  You are being watched and recorded the entire time.  When you finish you alert the proctor and they will end your exam, give you control of the computer and normal functionality and you can log off.

Honestly, it's a lot less of a hassle to take an exam in a classroom.  And, IMO, easier to cheat.

So I used to be a graduate student TA for large undergrad biology courses. I’ve proctored countless exams, and been involved in dean of students refers. I’ve also taken an online course once before with virtual proctoring. The measures we take, in person and online, are so easily beat. However the at home tests are by far the easiest. You are sorely underestimating the ingenuity students. 

[Kaepora]

On 5/1/2018 at 1:55 AM, lemurcatta said:

So I used to be a graduate student TA for large undergrad biology courses. I’ve proctored countless exams, and been involved in dean of students refers. I’ve also taken an online course once before with virtual proctoring. The measures we take, in person and online, are so easily beat. However the at home tests are by far the easiest. You are sorely underestimating the ingenuity students. 

Coincidentally, I also used to proctor exams as a TA for Bio 101 and organic chem 101 and 102.  It was me, the other TA and the professor in a large auditorium with the students.  We attempted to sit them every other chair (as much as was possible with the available seating) and then we would just roam up and down the center aisles.  

I also have 2 degrees which were gained from on campus programs.  And now a hybrid style with online proctored and on site exams.  I still think it's a wash as far as cheating goes for either.  So far, no one on this thread has offered any real way of cheating using this service.

[EMEDPA]

On 4/29/2018 at 9:06 AM, Kilian12 said:

Dr. Sadler was a part of our Preparing Future PAs course and gave us a lot of PA history as well as the history of founding Yale.

what were his feelings on the online program? Like I said, I used to work for the man directly for 4 years and we went bowling together, etc and he talked about the advantages of PA school over NP school in depth. It would surprise me if he was ok with online didactic education. 

[ravenspac]

this is a colossal mistake 

[PAlife91]

On 4/22/2018 at 7:05 PM, corpsman89 said:

https://www.thepalife.com/no-experience-required-84-pa-schools-that-dont-require-healthcare-experience/

And they're no hidden gems. They're hidden arguments that NPs/MDs/DOs/legislatures can use against us as we push for OTP. I actually didnt realize the number of schools was so high. 

 

This is very inaccurate. E.g. Quinnipiac is listed as not requiring experience, but they require a minimum of 2,500 hours of HCE.... Didn't look up the rest but I am sure they're not all correct.