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Inaugural PA Online Class - YALE

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1 hour ago, Reality Check 2 said:

 

Your statements are incorrect. 

Never bunk the old my friend. We learned without the internet, without computers really. We hand wrote notes, read real books and hauled them around. We read EKGs without any help from the machine. We calculated med doses with a real calculator - no smart phone, no epocrates.

Don't bunk the old - we learned the same stuff - seriously - we did - we just learned it more manually and with less technology. It doesn't make us dumb or dumber or harder to teach. There is nothing new today that students have to know that we did not. 

The curricula does not change - same rotations, same governing bodies, same PANCE/PANRE. 

My skill set is pretty good at 26 yrs and my knowledge base expands daily - THAT is the part of medicine - NEVER quit learning.

But, seriously - don't bunk the old - they are your teachers.

 

Honestly, on the same note I could say "don't bunk the new" a thousand times over and over. We are learning medicine through live, online lectures with groups of 10 in a virtual classroom with a Yale faculty member. This is for the people in rural Montana or South Dakota who don't have access to a nearby PA school. This is for the single mom with 2 kids or the medic who can't move their family but wants to fulfill their dream, but have the intelligence, drive and motivation to pursue medicine, no matter what it takes. Don't bunk the new - learning online doesn't make us dumb or dumber or harder to teach. It means we are revolutionizing and utilizing the amazing technology available to us. Again, our curriculum doesn't change. We have the same in-person rotations, same governing bodies that approved our program and made sure that we are fulfilling all the requirements, and the same PANCE/PANRE. I hope the next time you try to talk down on people trying to make a difference in this world that you reconsider. 

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5 minutes ago, Gordon, PA-C said:

Does this Yale program actually contact the preceptors, establish expectations, have a mechanized formal way of giving feedback to the school?

Or does Yale simply tell its PA students "have fun googling up random clinics to beg for preceptors" like so many NP programs do?

Traditional med/PA schools have faculty/preceptors whose primary mission is education.  Can you tell me a bunch of random primary clinics scattered across the country with no formal relationship to the the school have the same primary mission?  I seriously doubt it.  

My guess is that the clinical rotations end up being along the lines of merely shadowing a preceptor with very little real learning involved.  

No, we have no input in where we have our rotations and are not expected to find our own sites. Yale reaches out, connects and sets these up on their own. There is an entire placement team dedicated to finding sites, establishing contracts and creating relationships with future sites, so that not only we can use them, but so can future students. Each site undergoes thorough vetting before a relationship is initiated. Further, your guess is incorrect. We are in didactic year but have already started working in clinical sites where most students are performing histories and exams, coming up with appropriate plans to discuss with their preceptors, and some even performing Pap smears and other minor procedures. We have certain goals and assignments to complete each week as we complete our clinical education in our didactic year. 

The issue is so many people comparing our education standards to NP's. It would be helpful for you to visit the Yale PA online site before making comments like these public forums. 

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7 minutes ago, eliam22 said:

No, we have no input in where we have our rotations and are not expected to find our own sites. Yale reaches out, connects and sets these up on their own. There is an entire placement team dedicated to finding sites, establishing contracts and creating relationships with future sites, so that not only we can use them, but so can future students. Each site undergoes thorough vetting before a relationship is initiated. Further, your guess is incorrect. We are in didactic year but have already started working in clinical sites where most students are performing histories and exams, coming up with appropriate plans to discuss with their preceptors, and some even performing Pap smears and other minor procedures. We have certain goals and assignments to complete each week as we complete our clinical education in our didactic year. 

The issue is so many people comparing our education standards to NP's. It would be helpful for you to visit the Yale PA online site before making comments like these public forums. 

Current PA student here and I'm with you. Heck, some of my med school friends have online lectures. It IS the way of future and it can be done right. I do not doubt that you are getting a great education through this program. Just wanted to voice my support.  

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One more thing -- is the PANCE exam now open book?  

Because I'm assuming that this Yale online program uses online testing with no proctoring involved.  Must be nice to be able to cheat on the shelf exams and have a web browser open to look up answers while you are taking a test.

I have to admit I'm a little jealous.  I remember busting my ass off to study for tests when I was in PA school.  Nowadays all you have to do is wing it with an open book/open computer test where I can just look up all the correct and incorrect answers without really being tested on anything!

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2 minutes ago, Gordon, PA-C said:

One more thing -- is the PANCE exam now open book?  

Because I'm assuming that this Yale online program uses online testing with no proctoring involved.  Must be nice to be able to cheat on the shelf exams and have a web browser open to look up answers while you are taking a test.

I have to admit I'm a little jealous.  I remember busting my ass off to study for tests when I was in PA school.  Nowadays all you have to do is wing it with an open book/open computer test where I can just look up all the correct and incorrect answers without really being tested on anything!

This is all so sad and presumptuous. We have proctored exams. We are recorded by a system called ProctorTrack and any time our eyes go off the screen we get flagged. Anytime we look down we are flagged. Opening a web browser flags you for cheating. So no, the PANCE IS NOT OPEN BOOK and our exams ARE proctored and there is no cheating. Hope this answers your question! Next?

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In addition, all quizzes and exams are timed. We get an average of one minute per question (just like the PANCE/PANRE). Even if there wasn’t proctoring, there simply isn’t enough time to be looking up answers. We all study our butts off. I might be at home doing school, but I can tell you that I hardly see my family because I am (*gasp*) studying! 

I am honestly really saddened by many of the derogatory and simply ignorant comments in this thread. At least do your research or inquire from someone who might know before spouting off inaccurate assumptions. You have NO IDEA about the backgrounds and skill-sets represented by the people in the picture you are so quick to make fun of. You are obviously clueless about the structure and details regarding this program. As PAs, I would expect you to have a lot more compassion toward other human beings and drive to truly understand something different before making ridiculous assumptions. 

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38 minutes ago, eliam22 said:

This is all so sad and presumptuous. We have proctored exams. We are recorded by a system called ProctorTrack and any time our eyes go off the screen we get flagged. Anytime we look down we are flagged. Opening a web browser flags you for cheating. So no, the PANCE IS NOT OPEN BOOK and our exams ARE proctored and there is no cheating. Hope this answers your question! Next?

 

I assumed the program used something like this, as I've heard about if being used by some online NP programs (and likely other online graduate programs); is it a lock-down browser that prevents opening of any other windows during exams? We use LockDown browser which does this, but our exams are in class on laptops, so no eye-tracking (other than our professors). I do wonder how it prevents students from taping stuff (recent guidelines or hard to remember drug names, etc) to the screen or screen edges though which would prevent them from having to look down (an honest thought, not insinuating students in your program do this). Overall, I'm sure it's a fine system and likely isn't abused by most students. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, ProSpectre said:

 

I assumed the program used something like this, as I've heard about if being used by some online NP programs (and likely other online graduate programs); is it a lock-down browser that prevents opening of any other windows during exams? We use LockDown browser which does this, but our exams are in class on laptops, so no eye-tracking (other than our professors). I do wonder how it prevents students from taping stuff (recent guidelines or hard to remember drug names, etc) to the screen or screen edges though which would prevent them from having to look down (an honest thought, not insinuating students in your program do this). Overall, I'm sure it's a fine system and likely isn't abused by most students. 

How many hours each month/week do you spend at the clinical sites throughout the didactic portion of the program? Also, how much time is required on campus for cadaver lab and skills labs? I looked on the website for some of this stuff, but its hard to find specifics. I'm glad to know they are trying to get you guys out as much as possible to practice skills, that's important for any program to do, and the earlier the better.

 

So there isn't an actual lock-down browser, but with your screen being recorded, faculty will be able to clearly see if you open up another browser while taking the exam and you get flagged for cheating. Taping stuff causes you to look off to the screen (even if it's just a little bit) and that's a cause for a flag as well. I think we're all too scared to try anything, risk cheating and jeopardize our future careers. 

We spend 4 hours a week (I personally do 6 and requested this from my adviser independently) in clinical sites during didactic year, totaling 160 hours. We spent 30 hours doing cadaver dissection in groups of 5, covering all body systems. We removed the brain last month at our first immersion (what it's called when we visit the Yale campus) and are doing the actual brain dissection at the second immersion in December. For skills, we spent around 30 hours this last immersion week doing physical exams. In December we'll learn more practical skills, and since we've completed majority of the dissection, I assume more time will be spent performing these skills over the week. 

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8 hours ago, Reality Check 2 said:

The curricula does not change - same rotations, same governing bodies, same PANCE/PANRE. 

Are you really implying that didactic year hasn't added material in 26 years and the PANCE hasn't changed in nearly 3 decades to represent current practice?

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The blueprint only contains broad topics. Are you suggesting that the management of any given clinical condition listed on the blueprint is to be answered on the exam utilizing guidelines from 1994?

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McClane - not sure where you are going with this - but - I do know what I am doing despite not having been in school in 26 yrs.

It's called CME, it's called constant learning. It's called being a medical professional.

Nothing has changed THAT drastically since 1990 in overall medicine. Watson and Crick started in the 1950s. MRIs did exist when I was in school and the basic anatomy of the human being hasn't changed. The basics of medicine, physical exam and didactics have not undergone any miraculous transformations.

Amazingly, medical professionals can still take a history and diagnose most issues with no tech whatsoever. Called the ART of MEDICINE.

So, whatever your beef is - time to move on.  I do not believe it is any harder in perspective to get into PA school now than in my time except we have 3 times as many PA schools.

I still do not care for the online abbreviated schools. Just my take on it.

Good Day and Well Wishes to you.

 

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24 minutes ago, Reality Check 2 said:

Nothing has changed THAT drastically since 1990 in overall medicine.

I'd love to see your notes from didactic year.

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6 minutes ago, mcclane said:

I'd love to see your notes from didactic year.

I'd love to see you talk like that to a 25 yr PA face to face. 

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1 hour ago, Reality Check 2 said:

McClane - not sure where you are going with this - but - I do know what I am doing despite not having been in school in 26 yrs.

It's called CME, it's called constant learning. It's called being a medical professional.

Nothing has changed THAT drastically since 1990 in overall medicine. Watson and Crick started in the 1950s. MRIs did exist when I was in school and the basic anatomy of the human being hasn't changed. The basics of medicine, physical exam and didactics have not undergone any miraculous transformations.

Amazingly, medical professionals can still take a history and diagnose most issues with no tech whatsoever. Called the ART of MEDICINE.

So, whatever your beef is - time to move on.  I do not believe it is any harder in perspective to get into PA school now than in my time except we have 3 times as many PA schools.

I still do not care for the online abbreviated schools. Just my take on it.

Good Day and Well Wishes to you.

 

I agree with your dictum, but you have to realize that you have had 26 years of CME, OJT, experience, to learn all the "newer" stuff (new medications, techniques, imaging, testing, genetic testing, etc) and what the newer PAs are stating is that they have to learn "more" in a shorter amount of time (2 years of PA school) about more of these topics than what you have had to do in your initial PA training. Yes, I agree basic anatomy as not changed (mostly), but pharmacology, genetics, microbiology, physics, physiology, all has changed some. Is your CME education the same as the newer PA students training? The question could be turned around on you as you state you are do not care for the online abbreviated schools, but is that not what CMEs are? So is your learning inferior over the 26 years of your CME training? Just throwing out thoughts, not attacking you or anyone. You have to realize that "us" in the middle (the one's that grew up with a TV as a piece of furniture, a rotary telephone, grew up with "Another One Bites the Dust" or with "U2" (on cassette tapes) understand the old school ways, but also had the privilege of using computers (apple macintosh 128K/apple imac G3) in school and took typing classes in high school to prepare us for college. I am one of those "people" that understand both lives and think times are changing with online classes (and yes there are ways of using home proctoring systems that lock your browser and monitor your facial/eye movements/record you) or some online classes make you take ALL your quizzes and test at a testing center. You know that many of the medical schools out there do this same think, I have had several friends in MD/DO schools and they are in class for a few hours and do home study...What is wrong with home study and taking a proctored test....? This is NOT like NP schools (my wife is a NP, but her school required a lock down browser) that allows you to take the test anytime, anywhere (which I DISAGREE with). Maybe try to learn how the newer students are being taught and embrace it for what it is worth. 

P.S. You cannot bash something if you truly do not understand it.   

P.S.S. I will say this, if you had to do oral boards then I am jealous as I have had oral exams in undergrad, they make you learn your stuff and make you feel good when you do well. I wish that was brought back like the physicians still have to do today for their re-cert. 

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The beef is with the perception of online education. John Q Public doesn't understand the difference between an online NP degree or an online PA degree. Heck, he might not even know what a PA is...

I congratulate the folks in the Yale online class and I hope they succeed greatly. I know in our didactic classes there were really boring lectures that I could have watched at home on 2x speed and gotten the teaching points in a much better fashion. The real success to the Yale online program will be in their selection of applicants who are independent and visual learners. Someone who has to have structure and be told what to do likely will not do well. 

I would challenge the Yale online students to prove to the profession that their education is working and is worthwhile. Do that by learning, showing up, getting into residencies, getting good jobs and succeeding. You're not going to prove it to the profession via a keyboard arguing here. In fact, you are likely driving a deeper wedge. Show up, work hard and be humble. 

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The browser thing; couldn't you just have another computer/tablet there at home to look stuff up on?

 

When I was in PA school, we also took some of the Med school classes, side by side, etc.  EXCEPT, in 1992-93, our score of 92 on an exam was a B, whereas the  Med students 92 was an A!  Most of them didn't attend class, and just read the notes typed each class by their 'note service', and took the test- worked pretty well for them actually.

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3 hours ago, MidwesternTexan said:

The browser thing; couldn't you just have another computer/tablet there at home to look stuff up on?

 

When I was in PA school, we also took some of the Med school classes, side by side, etc.  EXCEPT, in 1992-93, our score of 92 on an exam was a B, whereas the  Med students 92 was an A!  Most of them didn't attend class, and just read the notes typed each class by their 'note service', and took the test- worked pretty well for them actually.

You could, but by looking off the screen to another tablet you'd get flagged for cheating and you'd fail the exam and probably kicked out of the program. 

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When I initially posted this thread my intention was never to look down at the students in this program or simply make demeaning comments. This is a place of formal discussion where we can openly discuss things in a respectful manner.

I apologize to all of the current and future Yale Online PA students for such mediocre comments certain members have made.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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10 hours ago, EMNP said:

When I initially posted this thread my intention was never to look down at the students in this program or simply make demeaning comments. This is a place of formal discussion where we can openly discuss things in a respectful manner.

I apologize to all of the current and future Yale Online PA students for such mediocre comments certain members have made.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you for your statement. Some of the comments in this thread had been very disappointing...

As a Yale PA Online student ultimately I understand that the quality of our PA education will be proven on the other side of graduation. In the meantime, however, I think it's helpful to establish some facts about this program for those who are actually curious.

We are 42 people with 8000 average clinical experience hours who will be in school for 26 months studying the same exact curriculum as the on campus students (and not paying any more in tuition), spending 12+ hour days studying and constantly working with each other and our faculty, practicing hands on patient care on real patients every week throughout all of didactic year, completing 14 months of clinical rotations at approved sites, our program must meet the same accreditation standards as any other program and we must take and pass the PANCE like everybody else. There's nothing part-time, abbreviated, accelerated or "drive-through" about our program.

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On 4/10/2018 at 10:19 PM, Lexapro said:

What a salty thread.

It really is. It is actually sad to see so many people attacking this program without really understanding it.

I don't profess to know a lot about the Yale program, but if this program provides more people the opportunity to become a PA, then I would like to see it succeed. The more PAs we have the better we will be (to a point, of course...), especially younger minds that are not rooted in the grandeur of yesteryear. A high-profile program like Yale, if done right, could do a lot for the PA name as well.

Some of the comments in this thread reek of "get off my lawn".

 

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