What are my chances/ resume help?

[pahopeful46]

Hi everyone! I would like some advice or input on what yall think about my chances for acceptance to PA school and how my application looks overall, and what it may be lacking. Overall GPA is 3.84 while science GPA is around a 3.7. I am an RA at my campus and have been for the last two years, and I am also an officer for my campus' Pre-PA organization. I tutor for organic chemistry and general chemistry and I am taking my GRE next week but my latest diagnostic score was a 310 so I am hoping for a score around there and hopefully higher. I have been volunteering at a hospital for the past year, and I am just now starting to shadow a doctor at Texas Children's hospital, but I do not have a lot of hands on patient care. I was wondering what yall's opinions were for a hope at acceptance, as I would like to apply this cycle. Also, since I have only been shadowing a doctor very recently, I was unsure of how to add that into my resume. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone!

[Ket131]

With “little” direct PCE, I’m guessing 100-200 hours?  Probably minimal to none, unless you can find a school that does not put weight into dPCE.  However, I never came across one.  I would start working on the dPCE and apply the following year.  Think of it like this...why would a school pick someone that has never interacted with patients for a patient centered role?  Your stats are good otherwise.  Also, CASPA will ask about volunteer hours.  Attached resumes on CASPA are based on what the program requests and are not always asked for.

[DarcyJ]

With “little” direct PCE, I’m guessing 100-200 hours?  Probably minimal to none, unless you can find a school that does not put weight into dPCE.  However, I never came across one.  I would start working on the dPCE and apply the following year.  Think of it like this...why would a school pick someone that has never interacted with patients for a patient centered role?  Your stats are good otherwise.  Also, CASPA will ask about volunteer hours.  Attached resumes on CASPA are based on what the program requests and are not always asked for.

I have to disagree. Even in schools where they put a lot of weight on prior patient care experience, there are applicants that get in with virtually none. If all of the rest of their application stats are solid and they are very well-rounded students, they still stand a decent chance at being competitive. Even though the OP doesn't have much previous experience caring for patients does not mean he/she has not demonstrated potential. To say that a person who does not have healthcare experience can't go on to be a good PA is absurd. Look how many doctors started medical school with no previous healthcare experience.

I know we have PA students and PAs here on this forum who were accepted with virtually no patient care experience. You have several positive things going for you in your application stats. I don't think it would be foolish to go ahead and apply before gaining experience. Just know that there is a chance with some schools that that lack of healthcare experience will be what causes you not to be accepted. So it will be up to you to decide whether you want to spend the money now or wait until you have some hours under your belt.

That said, if you want to start somewhere to increase your chances of acceptance, that is still a good place to start.

 

 

[Anachronist]

Application looks strong, just need to work on PCE. You can enter that (and shadowing) as what you "intend" to do once you graduate (I'm assuming you graduate this semester since you are still TAing) in CASPA. Then you have all summer to rack up PCE before interviews and deadlines in the fall, could easily get 500 hours by then. Best bet would be scribing, phlebotomy, and possibly CNA or Medical Assistant depending on your state and how they work there/how long training and certification are. 

[Ket131]

1 hour ago, DarcyJ said:

I have to disagree.

Everything you said in your second paragraph concurs with what I said and would fall into that "minimal" chance.  I am glad you have seen applicants with little to no HCE get accepted into PA programs, but my experience I have not, which is why I used "minimal."  I also have not actively searched for those that have, but just some light browsing through the acceptance stats page on this forum I do not recall seeing any standing out, but as I said I wasn't actively searching.

1 hour ago, DarcyJ said:

To say that a person who does not have healthcare experience  can't go on to be a good PA is absurd.  Look how many doctors started medical school with no previous healthcare experience.

I am not sure if you and I are reading the same thread here, but I never said that someone who has no HCE cannot go on to be a good PA.  You are wrong in the sense that you are trying to put words in my mouth by saying this, but you are right in case of physicians.  Both of my parents are retired MDs and my father had no HCE before he went to medical school.  I actually work with a nurse who worked with my father before he retired and from the words of this nurse's mouth he "was one of nicest and fairest men and was a damn good anesthesiologist."  I understand very well that just because someone doesn't have a particular experience does not discredit them.  However, the fact is that medical school and PA school are different, which would include the basic requirements to matriculate and the "average" matriculant in general.  I would expect that those that do get accepted into a PA program with minimal dPCE have done something to set themselves apart, what ever that may be.  There was no ill intent towards the OP.

[DarcyJ]

I am not sure if you and I are reading the same thread here, but I never said that someone who has no HCE cannot go on to be a good PA.  You are wrong in the sense that you are trying to put words in my mouth by saying this, but you are right in case of physicians.  Both of my parents are retired MDs and my father had no HCE before he went to medical school.  I actually work with a nurse who worked with my father before he retired and from the words of this nurse's mouth he "was one of nicest and fairest men and was a damn good anesthesiologist."  I understand very well that just because someone doesn't have a particular experience does not discredit them.  However, the fact is that medical school and PA school are different, which would include the basic requirements to matriculate and the "average" matriculant in general.  I would expect that those that do get accepted into a PA program with minimal dPCE have done something to set themselves apart, what ever that may be.  There was no ill intent towards the OP.

Thank you for clarifying. I must have read some inflection that wasn't there. Glad we can discuss it civilly.

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[pahopeful46]

2 hours ago, Anachronist said:

Application looks strong, just need to work on PCE. You can enter that (and shadowing) as what you "intend" to do once you graduate (I'm assuming you graduate this semester since you are still TAing) in CASPA. Then you have all summer to rack up PCE before interviews and deadlines in the fall, could easily get 500 hours by then. Best bet would be scribing, phlebotomy, and possibly CNA or Medical Assistant depending on your state and how they work there/how long training and certification are. 

Thank you for your help!! Actually though, I am a junior in college right now graduating Spring 2019 hoping to matriculate in Fall 2019. Would you recommend I do some patient care hours over this summer and then update my CASPA application after? I wanted to get my application in early in April or May for the schools with rolling admissions. I also volunteer in the clinical observation unit at the hospital I volunteer at, so would that possibly count towards patient hours? Thanks for your help again!

[Anachronist]

On 3/13/2018 at 2:54 PM, texas27 said:

Thank you for your help!! Actually though, I am a junior in college right now graduating Spring 2019 hoping to matriculate in Fall 2019. Would you recommend I do some patient care hours over this summer and then update my CASPA application after? I wanted to get my application in early in April or May for the schools with rolling admissions. I also volunteer in the clinical observation unit at the hospital I volunteer at, so would that possibly count towards patient hours? Thanks for your help again!

Sorry for the late reply, I've been away from my computer for a while. Anyway, yes. Start PCE as early as possible, even if it is just a little here and there, it all adds up. As for the Observation Unit, I have no idea, that depends on each PA program and what exactly you are doing (CASPA gives you a little wiggle room to explain/elaborate), I've even seen some programs that break down what counts as PCE into 1/2 time and full time "credit." Some programs are very specific and others are more vague, but they all (at least that I saw) have something on their website that talks about it and what does/may or doesn't/may not count. The rule of thumb boils down to "are you interacting with patients" and/or "are you physically touching patients?" The one exception to that rule (that is fairly universal) is scribing, because you are in the room with the MD and experiencing the whole patient/Dr interaction even though it may not be you asking questions, touching the patient, etc. 

(The other fairly universal exception that may not be intuitive but makes sense, is that patient transport does not count. You may be interacting in some limited and non medical way, but that is not something considered significant because you aren't participating in their treatment plan and are basically a taxi.)

[TheFatMan]

On 3/13/2018 at 10:41 AM, DarcyJ said:

To say that a person who does not have healthcare experience can't go on to be a good PA is absurd. Look how many doctors started medical school with no previous healthcare experience.

Medical School is not PA School, and in this context you can't really compare the two.  Medical school is 4 years plus residency (3+ years). They don't need as much prior experience because they earn much more experience during school. The PA profession was  (at least initially) made for those who already had a significant amount of experience in healthcare and could therefore "get a way with" not having such a long schooling process.

I'm not saying that PA's without prior experience will not or can not be great providers, however this just isn't a fair comparison.

To OP: Not trying to discourage you... I would just read through all of their requirements with a fine toothed comb and try to find as much acceptance data on the particular schools you are interested in before you apply.  Compare your numbers with the numbers on the school's website and make a decision based off of that, OR contact the schools themselves and see if they think you are competitive.

[DarcyJ]

Damn, I really thought the Physician Assistant program I applied to was medical school. 

I actually do believe that people with extensive prior PCE who go on to PA school will definitely experience more comfortable patient interactions in the beginning and understand the patient-provider dynamic better. And, the experience can only help.

BUT, it should have been obvious that my point was, depending on which school you're considering, it is not a deal breaker to lack experience. 

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[Anachronist]

In response to hmmmm3 and Ket131 on PCE. I think there was some misread inflection in DracyJs post as well. But it does come down to each PA program's requirements. I've seen minimums from 250 hours (Elon) to 2,000 hours (University of Utah), and even no minimum but "suggested" PCE at many others. So for you texas27, just get as much as you can and throw your application in with everyone else, you'll certainly be competitive at the programs that will accept the PCE you are able to gather, and if you have to apply a second time, then you'll be even more competitive after locking down another year of experience.

As far as PCE's impact, that is highly subjective. To me, and to at least one admissions committee member I spoke to, it is there to ensure that the applicant knows what they are getting into, i.e. what medicine is really all about. How much it prepares them to practice medicine as a PA (or a MD) depends a lot on the person and a lot on what they were actually doing (with the exception of those who have been in a field for a decade, then it really is an advantage that PA school alone can't make up for). But for almost every other applicant I spoke with during interviews, they generally had a few years in an entry level position. The Paramedics and RNs with 10 years of experience seem to be the exception, not the rule.

Anecdotally, I was an EMT, a medical scribe/MA, and a volunteer at a free medical clinic, and although I am grateful for those experiences and they certainly contributed to my perception and experience, it is small compared to my non-personal medical experience. My father was a MD, my mom a tech, and both grandmothers and an aunt were nurses; I grew up bathing in the ins and outs of medicine with well over 100 years of combined experience that was all too eager to fill my ear, and to this day that has had a larger impact on both my understanding of the logistics of medicine as well as my interaction with patients than my own "hands on" experience. I know my situation is not necessary common, but it is worth noting that despite my own personal PCE, I view my vicarious exposure as having been more significant in preparing me for practicing as a PA. 

[TheFatMan]

2 hours ago, DarcyJ said:

Damn, I really thought the Physician Assistant program I applied to was medical school. 

I actually do believe that people with extensive prior PCE who go on to PA school will definitely experience more comfortable patient interactions in the beginning and understand the patient-provider dynamic better. And, the experience can only help.

BUT, it should have been obvious that my point was, depending on which school you're considering, it is not a deal breaker to lack experience. 

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Rereading my post, I think it comes off a little snarky and condescending...not my intention.

I wasn't saying that you think MD=PA, but that was the argument you made, and I think it could be a little misleading to some people, which is why I wanted to point out that docs have more leeway as far as experience goes because they get more than 2 years to learn.

Probably not a total deal breaker, but still would be preferable to have more experience, which I think everyone can agree upon.

Cheers.

[DarcyJ]

Cheers

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[bsbtvb]

On 3/11/2018 at 8:11 PM, texas27 said:

Hi everyone! I would like some advice or input on what yall think about my chances for acceptance to PA school and how my application looks overall, and what it may be lacking. Overall GPA is 3.84 while science GPA is around a 3.7. I am an RA at my campus and have been for the last two years, and I am also an officer for my campus' Pre-PA organization. I tutor for organic chemistry and general chemistry and I am taking my GRE next week but my latest diagnostic score was a 310 so I am hoping for a score around there and hopefully higher. I have been volunteering at a hospital for the past year, and I am just now starting to shadow a doctor at Texas Children's hospital, but I do not have a lot of hands on patient care. I was wondering what yall's opinions were for a hope at acceptance, as I would like to apply this cycle. Also, since I have only been shadowing a doctor very recently, I was unsure of how to add that into my resume. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone!

I know I'm late replying to this but I thought I would put my 2 cents in. I think that having little direct patient care experience will make it harder for you, but there is definitely a chance! I shadow a PA who got in with literally none. You just need to pick the right schools. Good Luck!

[pahopeful46]

3 hours ago, bsbtvb said:

I know I'm late replying to this but I thought I would put my 2 cents in. I think that having little direct patient care experience will make it harder for you, but there is definitely a chance! I shadow a PA who got in with literally none. You just need to pick the right schools. Good Luck!

Thank you so much for your input! Hearing things like this really do give me hope and I am excited for what this cycle will bring  good luck to you in all of your applications and interviews!