The Benefits of Changing our Title -- The Time is NOW!

[Guest Paula]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 7:48 AM, corpsman89 said:

I wasn't aware any state has achieved OTP yet?

No, none has but Michigan achieved "partnership" with  physicians, and deleted the supervision and delegation language from their laws.  They can obtain their own DEA without linking it with a physician license.  PAs must have partnership agreement at the practice level  in order to practice and prescribe, but  don't need to  file the agreement at a state agency. (This is to the best of my understanding from the emails I get from MAPA, I still have my Michigan license but not currently practicing in MI). 

[ALC0313]

The large multi-specialty group that I work for is called Physician Associates, so sorry guys- it's taken.

The thing I like about Medical Practitioner is that it will simplify how people refer to us and NP's- just call us practitioners. Similar to how MD's and DO's are both doctors or physicians. Then we can finally drop the term mid-level or physician extender. I know a lot of institutions are now using APP so pracitioner fits with that as well.

[ProSpectre]

Well the new AAPA President-Elect is Dave Mittman, so that's some good news. Beth Smolko was also re-elected as Director at Large. Hopefully some progress can be made on the title change front in the near future now. 

[Dichotomy]

The following is from  the comments section of the recent Medscape article about PA/NP:

"....I'm a pharmacist/pharmacology professor, and know likely more about drugs than most MDs do. I however never pretend to be a physician as I don't have "adequate training", and neither do PAs. In a time when science and medicine move at a mind-boggling pace, lots of MDs struggle to keep up despite their more advanced training. The last thing we need are half-educated health care personnel (I know this will not sit well with many, but that's what it is, or there would be any difference between the education requirements). The biggest risk not necessary a "mistake" of PAs (although one gave me an amoxicillin prescription some time ago despite my specifically mentioned penicillin allergy, and when I pointed it out, stated "it's OK - it's amoxicillin, not penicillin". After a similar event a year later with other prescriptions involving two completely incompatible drugs, I simply refuse to be seen by a PA now as I would like to live a little longer). The 'real problem" is the high risk of missing "something" (I know, I know: that happens with MDs, too, but with what frequency compared to the PAs). 

I have the highest respect for nurses, PAs (and obviously pharmacists), as long as everyone stays in their lane. ASSISTANTs by definition "assist" - they don't work independently. If you want to do that, go to med school!..."

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/895312?nlid=121968_429&src=WNL_mdplsfeat_180424_mscpedit_fmed&uac=179069PK&spon=34&impID=1615392&faf=1

Folks, this is a REAL PROBLEM --- These comments really drive this topic home!

[corpsman89]

That was certainly depressing to read those comments. 

[PACali]

On 4/25/2018 at 7:13 PM, Dichotomy said:

The following is from  the comments section of the recent Medscape article about PA/NP:

"....I'm a pharmacist/pharmacology professor, and know likely more about drugs than most MDs do. I however never pretend to be a physician as I don't have "adequate training", and neither do PAs. In a time when science and medicine move at a mind-boggling pace, lots of MDs struggle to keep up despite their more advanced training. The last thing we need are half-educated health care personnel (I know this will not sit well with many, but that's what it is, or there would be any difference between the education requirements). The biggest risk not necessary a "mistake" of PAs (although one gave me an amoxicillin prescription some time ago despite my specifically mentioned penicillin allergy, and when I pointed it out, stated "it's OK - it's amoxicillin, not penicillin". After a similar event a year later with other prescriptions involving two completely incompatible drugs, I simply refuse to be seen by a PA now as I would like to live a little longer). The 'real problem" is the high risk of missing "something" (I know, I know: that happens with MDs, too, but with what frequency compared to the PAs). 

I have the highest respect for nurses, PAs (and obviously pharmacists), as long as everyone stays in their lane. ASSISTANTs by definition "assist" - they don't work independently. If you want to do that, go to med school!..."

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/895312?nlid=121968_429&src=WNL_mdplsfeat_180424_mscpedit_fmed&uac=179069PK&spon=34&impID=1615392&faf=1

Folks, this is a REAL PROBLEM --- These comments really drive this topic home!

I have stories about retail pharmacists don't know what they're talking about.  We can go to war with each other on and on and I can post on medscape too but it still won't change Assistant in our name. "it's amoxicillin not penicillin" ??? give me break...  Some of these posts aren't even real. Mostly trolls. I work in the ER and I am still amazed how many trolls are out there.  We should focus our energy on more practical things like name change. 

[PACali]

On 4/16/2018 at 8:30 AM, ALC0313 said:

The large multi-specialty group that I work for is called Physician Associates, so sorry guys- it's taken.

The thing I like about Medical Practitioner is that it will simplify how people refer to us and NP's- just call us practitioners. Similar to how MD's and DO's are both doctors or physicians. Then we can finally drop the term mid-level or physician extender. I know a lot of institutions are now using APP so pracitioner fits with that as well.

Some people think Medical practitioner is too generalized and too simple but that is exactly what we need. You can explain Medical Practitioner to a 6 years old. Physician Associate is just too confusing.   

[PAtoMD]

8 hours ago, Dichotomy said:

The following is from  the comments section of the recent Medscape article about PA/NP:

"....I'm a pharmacist/pharmacology professor, and know likely more about drugs than most MDs do. I however never pretend to be a physician as I don't have "adequate training", and neither do PAs. In a time when science and medicine move at a mind-boggling pace, lots of MDs struggle to keep up despite their more advanced training. The last thing we need are half-educated health care personnel (I know this will not sit well with many, but that's what it is, or there would be any difference between the education requirements). The biggest risk not necessary a "mistake" of PAs (although one gave me an amoxicillin prescription some time ago despite my specifically mentioned penicillin allergy, and when I pointed it out, stated "it's OK - it's amoxicillin, not penicillin". After a similar event a year later with other prescriptions involving two completely incompatible drugs, I simply refuse to be seen by a PA now as I would like to live a little longer). The 'real problem" is the high risk of missing "something" (I know, I know: that happens with MDs, too, but with what frequency compared to the PAs). 

I have the highest respect for nurses, PAs (and obviously pharmacists), as long as everyone stays in their lane. ASSISTANTs by definition "assist" - they don't work independently. If you want to do that, go to med school!..."

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/895312?nlid=121968_429&src=WNL_mdplsfeat_180424_mscpedit_fmed&uac=179069PK&spon=34&impID=1615392&faf=1

Folks, this is a REAL PROBLEM --- These comments really drive this topic home!

“I have their most respect for nurses, PAs,...” 

except the part where you refuse to see one.

 

the internet definetley brings out the loudest people and these should be taken with a grain a salt. I do wonder though if I pass these people in the hallway during rotations or how common these perceptions are.

[lkth487]

9 hours ago, corpsman89 said:

That was certainly depressing to read those comments. 

Never read comments on an internet article.  Internet 101. :p

[Sensa23]

10 hours ago, SR0525 said:

“I have their most respect for nurses, PAs,...” 

except the part where you refuse to see one.

 

the internet definetley brings out the loudest people and these should be taken with a grain a salt. I do wonder though if I pass these people in the hallway during rotations or how common these perceptions are.

I find this anonymous pharmD's criticism moot, especially during a time where the Pharmacy profession has gained considerable ground in lobbying for expanded clinical roles. For instance, just look at Oregon, California and North Carolina, or initiatives like S.314/H.R.592. Would be 'interesting' to see which side of this lobby spectrum our astute mystery person aligns with. "Stay in your own lane," give me a break!

[Sensa23]

On a more related note, in the last 12 hours I've seen medical recruiters refer to the profession as "physicians assistant" in job postings and a matriculated PA student refer to herself as the same in a promotional youtube video for a newer program. How can we expect to emanate medical competency within the healthcare realm to patients and other professionals if recruiters, or even our own matriculated students, can't always get it right?

I acknowledge the biases of my limited exposure to the PA work environment being a newly admitted student myself, but I would be lying if I said such occurrences weren't mildly irritating at times.

[MidwesternTexan]

From the PA from WI.  We don't need more 'studies'.  We need change, and now. 

Reid, Tara, and others ARE dong a great job advocating for us btw!

Bottom line:

- PA's have better training than NP's

- the PA should be on equal, if not, ABOVE the privileges as an NP.

- Too bad so many 'boards' are made up of RN's, that 'keep the PA' down, or 'in their place'

this is my 24th year as a PA-C,

Now, I want to be MP-C!

'would you like to see the Nurse Practitioner, or the Medical Practitioner'?

- the Medical Practitioner- of course!  ;-) 

[PACali]

14 hours ago, MidwesternTexan said:

 

Now, I want to be MP-C!

 

I am not so sure about the "C" I think MP as the initial is enough. 

"MD and MP working as a team"  just make so much sense. 

MD and MP reminds me the meaning of Judo and Jiujitsu  

Judo means the "gentle way" and Jiujitsu stands for "gentle technique"  

They are very different but at the same time very similar in certain techniques. The name is very similar in Japanese. 

I think Judo came from jiu-jitsu or the other way around. But both names coexist just fine. People know the difference in Japan. I think the name Medical Practitioner can coexist with Medical Doctor. The name also works well with the current AAPA definition of PA.  https://www.aapa.org/what-is-a-pa/  

 

 

[Sarahava]

OK gang, I see a few problems with a name change: 

1- We can't seem to get the AAPA to even propose it

2 - We can't all agree on what it should be

NPs have APRN, NP, FNP, WHNP, etc, etc... many different titles that all lead to "NP."

Personally, I'm in STRONG favor of Medical Practitioner. This was something that was also suggested by my wife, who is not in the medical biz at all. She was coming at it from strictly a patient's perspective. NPs practicing nursing. MPs practice medicine. Simple as that. 

HOWEVER, I will support just about anything that is not "Physician Assistant."

Funny side note: My NP colleague (a new grad) studies PANCE and PANRE review courses because, as he states "PAs have a better eduction." We were chatting about this one day and he said "you guys REALLY need a name change! Your title sucks." (This was in a very supportive, "I think PAs are awesome and deserve better recognition" sort of way.)

So there's perspective from a patient and an NP. Name change now. I don't care what it is at this point. 

:)

[corpsman89]

1 hour ago, Sarahava said:

OK gang, I see a few problems with a name change: 

1- We can't seem to get the AAPA to even propose it

2 - We can't all agree on what it should be

NPs have APRN, NP, FNP, WHNP, etc, etc... many different titles that all lead to "NP."

Personally, I'm in STRONG favor of Medical Practitioner. This was something that was also suggested by my wife, who is not in the medical biz at all. She was coming at it from strictly a patient's perspective. NPs practicing nursing. MPs practice medicine. Simple as that. 

HOWEVER, I will support just about anything that is not "Physician Assistant."

Funny side note: My NP colleague (a new grad) studies PANCE and PANRE review courses because, as he states "PAs have a better eduction." We were chatting about this one day and he said "you guys REALLY need a name change! Your title sucks." (This was in a very supportive, "I think PAs are awesome and deserve better recognition" sort of way.)

So there's perspective from a patient and an NP. Name change now. I don't care what it is at this point. 

:)

I agree. 

However, the new soon to be president (David Mittman) is in full support of a name change, as well as OTP. 

Hopefully he can pave the way to a discussion on name change. I would think most PAs are in favor, the hard part will deciding on said name. 

[Cideous]

17 hours ago, Sarahava said:

 

Funny side note: My NP colleague (a new grad) studies PANCE and PANRE review courses because, as he states "PAs have a better eduction." We were chatting about this one day and he said "you guys REALLY need a name change! Your title sucks." (This was in a very supportive, "I think PAs are awesome and deserve better recognition" sort of way.)

 

:)

I have been told this countless times by everyone from Doc's, NP's, Medical Assistants to patients.

It's a horrible name and completely unrepresentative of what we do.

As much as the old timers what to keep it, they just do not understand the critical damage it is doing to our profession.  NP's are taking off like wildfire.....Because of their training?   LOL ah no.  Because of their name.  PA's better pull their heads out of the...sand.  We have at best 4-5 more years before the damage of our "assistant" name will become fatal when competing with NP's for jobs.

I seriously believe this and fear the next generation of "Assistants" will have a much harder time finding work then we did.

[ArmyMedOfficerInNY]

DAvid Mittman, Where are you. Lets get this name change going

[EMEDPA]

2 hours ago, ArmyMedOfficerInNY said:

DAvid Mittman, Where are you. Lets get this name change going

his term starts in 1 year. he is president-elect. The incoming president is Jonathan Sobel. Nice guy. also very pro-otp. 

[Sarahava]

On 4/30/2018 at 7:36 AM, Cideous said:

I have been told this countless times by everyone from Doc's, NP's, Medical Assistants to patients.

It's a horrible name and completely unrepresentative of what we do.

As much as the old timers what to keep it, they just do not understand the critical damage it is doing to our profession.  NP's are taking off like wildfire.....Because of their training?   LOL ah no.  Because of their name.  PA's better pull their heads out of the...sand.  We have at best 4-5 more years before the damage of our "assistant" name will become fatal when competing with NP's for jobs.

I seriously believe this and fear the next generation of "Assistants" will have a much harder time finding work then we did.

I'm right there with you. I'm terrified for the future of our profession. What's worse, is that a lot of us don't seem to even know what OTP is. 

Basically: in addition to deciding to change the name, we have to decide WHAT to change it to, AND engage our colleagues (and non-PA colleagues) to learn about and support OTP. It's an uphill battle. It wouldn't be quite so uphill if more PAs got involved. How do we motivate them?  How do we convince people that just because they may have a good job and a great relationship with their collaborating physician, they still need to help move our profession forward?

Personally, I think the NPs might start to face issues, too. I know a lot of NPs who do not support the direct-entry programs that are popping up and have seen problems with their graduates not being trained as thoroughly (and not having really developed their gut-instinct yet.... y'know, that little nagging feeling that a perfectly-healthy looking patient is about to crump and is usually correct.) I think as more of these grads enter the workforce, we're going to see the differences in training more obviously. 

[Marinejiujitsu]

OTP will never pass for "physician's assistants"

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[paramedico]

Jesus Christ!!!

i haven't been on this site in years and yet the same useless albeit well written arguments are moot. Who cares!!! Get over yourselves!! Do good medicine, have fun doing it and reap the rewards. And for the record, "We old guys" took a lot of shit to get the profession to where it is now. You gonna stick your finger up somebody's ass for 36 bucks an hour? I did. The only reason you self absorbed idiots are making the dough you are is because we stuck it out and built the reputation. Those that need to know who we are already do. You're welcome. 

Now get off my lawn, ya damn kids!!!!!!!!!

[EMEDPA]

14 minutes ago, paramedico said:

Jesus Christ!!!

i haven't been on this site in years and yet the same useless albeit well written arguments are moot. Who cares!!! Get over yourselves!! Do good medicine, have fun doing it and reap the rewards. And for the record, "We old guys" took a lot of shit to get the profession to where it is now. You gonna stick your finger up somebody's ass for 36 bucks an hour? I did. The only reason you self absorbed idiots are making the dough you are is because we stuck it out and built the reputation. Those that need to know who we are already do. You're welcome. 

Now get off my lawn, ya damn kids!!!!!!!!!

I did it for $24 young wipper snapper

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

$11.50/hr in ‘84 ($24K for 2080 hrs). Shoot, I thought I had just posted again when I saw the Clint Eastwood statement.

 

[EMEDPA]

6 minutes ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said:

$11.50/hr in ‘84 ($24K for 2080 hrs). Shoot, I thought I had just posted again when I saw the Clint Eastwood statement

yeah, but you worked with Florence Nightingale on Ernest Hemingway's ambulance, and everyone knows they didn't pay well. 

I made $6/hr as an ER tech in '87. In '84 I was making $3.35/hr clearing brush from a homestead in the CA central valley for a family friend. 

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

yeah, but you worked with Florence Nightingale on Ernest Hemingway's ambulance, and everyone knows they didn't pay well. 
I made $6/hr as an ER tech in '87. In '84 I was making $3.35/hr clearing brush from a homestead in the CA central valley for a family friend. 

The worst part was waiting on my paycheck to arrive via pony express.