PA to MD vs DO

[Ahpa14]

Wondering if any PAs have decided to further their education and have gone on to medical school. I’m aware of bridging programs out there ( ie LECOM) . I’m 34 and contemplating applying to a bridging programs. Any words of wisdom? 

Would appreciate hearing others experiences who may have completed this transition in their career. 

 

 

[newton9686]

I think everyone might be ignoring your question because we've answered it so many times. A quick search of this website should give you the opinion of many, including the few who are making the transition or already made it.

[EMEDPA]

Lecom is the only bridge program. I would do it in your shoes.

[LKPAC]

If you go for it, please report back periodically to update us.  I'd be interested in hearing about it.  Good luck!

[PAtoMD]

16 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

Lecom is the only bridge program. I would do it in your shoes.

Why would you do it?  

[Jdabrowski]

52 minutes ago, SR0525 said:

Why would you do it?  

Age and if the OP is thinking about it they should just do it is my thinking.

[EMEDPA]

5 hours ago, SR0525 said:

Why would you do it?  

 

5 hours ago, SR0525 said:

 

being a physician allows for far more opportunities than being a PA. the respect factor alone is enough to do it in my book, but the job opportunities are much greater for docs as well. International, non-clinical, urban, suburban, or rural. more free time. better standard of living. the list goes on.

[PAtoMD]

43 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

 

being a physician allows for far more opportunities than being a PA. the respect factor alone is enough to do it in my book, but the job opportunities are much greater for docs as well. International, non-clinical, urban, suburban, or rural. more free time. better standard of living. the list goes on.

You don't see the PA career growing and expanding?  I feel like most things I read are about the bright future of the career.

[camoman1234]

54 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

 

being a physician allows for far more opportunities than being a PA. the respect factor alone is enough to do it in my book, but the job opportunities are much greater for docs as well. International, non-clinical, urban, suburban, or rural. more free time. better standard of living. the list goes on.

I disagree with free time...all the FM docs I have worked with or know work a lot longer hours than I do...The better living due to $$$ is true, but they are also in more debt and school a lot longer, so who has more free time? Just my 2 cents :)

[lkth487]

That kind of depends.  You could work 5 days a week, with 10 half days of clinic, plus weekend/evening hours, plus call, and bust your butt and make the money.  But I think it's likely same as with PA - you can find jobs that will maybe pay you slightly less but block off time for other things.  Specifically in outpatient pediatrics, most people employed by by academic centers have 2-4 half days of clinic per week, plus some time protected for research, administration, education.  A few have 7 half days of clinic (that's the most I know of), and then have 1.5 days of free time to do other stuff - develop policies, educate staff, be part of committees, do QI projects, etc.  Inpatient people vary more widely, usually in general pediatrics they have 8-20 weeks of service, and they are off the rest of time (with the expectation that they'll contribute in other ways).  Some get paid to go internationally and do work there and start clinics or train hospital staff, for example.  Others use that time to develop curriculum for the medical students or residents, run SIMs, etc etc.   There is a LOT of things you can do that doesn't involve seeing a patient.  It's a nice change of pace and I think it prevents a lot of burnout.

I am not sure exactly what the schedule is like for the PAs in those areas since I rarely work with them except in the ICU, but I am sure they also have some opportunities to do other things, similar to physicians.  

Basically, if you're willing to take a pay cut, you CAN have a great quality of life and do other interesting things too :).

[EMEDPA]

I have several physician friends who work 20 hrs/week (2 days/week) doing exactly what I do who make significantly more than I do working full time plus and I am probably in the top 5% of PA salaries. they can work anywhere, anytime, with full autonomy and scope of practice and no one questions their credentials. honestly though, this is not about money for me, it is about respect. I am appropriately compensated at this point in my career. As a PA you are constantly proving yourself. even with 30 years experience in em as a paramedic and pa, no decent sized community hospital in my area would credential me to do full scope emergency medicine. that is why I work in very rural environments.I love my current job, but it is a rare situation and a long drive from home. If I was content to do mindless fast track work I could get a job anywhere. unfortunately, that does not satisfy me in the least. one of the greatest mistakes of my life was the decision to be a PA instead of a physician. many folks are happy as PAs, and more power to them. I don't want to ever be second fiddle at work or have my care plans altered without a good reason. having folks refuse to talk to me on the phone just because I am a pa  IS INFURIATING and part of the accepted culture at many places.. I don't work at places like that any more. A first year doc right out of residency gets moire respect than any PA. I have tried several times to go back to medschool, but a number of family situations have prevented that. I went back and took extra physics, chem, stats, etc and am sure I could get into LECOM at this point. my new job is solo coverage 100% of the time. best pa job I have ever had and I feel fortunate to have it. I applied every year for a decade before even getting an interview. I have been per diem there for a few years and just got the only full time slot they have. Ask any PA who has gone on to become a doc if they made the right choice. there are several on this board and they are all much happier now than when they worked as pas.

[lkth487]

I think there ought to be a way for someone in your position to take the STEP exams and apply for residency.  I think even three years is too long.  I could see, at most, a year, taking med school courses (which would help you for Step I anyway) - but I don't see why it has to be that restrictive.  

[EMEDPA]

I agree 3 years is 2 long. should be 1 year didactic, 1 year clinicals. I know I need the step 1 stuff, but think I could likely pass step 2 and 3 right now.

[lkth487]

HAHA I don't think I could pass step 2 right now.  But I'm not in EM, which I think definitely would help bigtime in passing it given the breadth of what you see that I have completely forgotten.  Step 3, I just took it this year, and I definitely think you'd ace it given you see in EM is essentially exactly what Step 3 tests....  

Step 1 would be a massive pain in the ass for me right now too.  I'd fail it hard.  

Honestly, a little biochem and pathophys, and a few core clinicals and you're golden. 

Fourth year med school is pretty chill anyway so you don't need that.  A year at most should be enough for experienced PAs.  After that, you get your degree and just take the three steps, and apply to residencies like everyone else.   

People tend to be too defensive about their little turf.   It's crazy. 

[EMEDPA]

8 minutes ago, lkth487 said:

HAHA I don't think I could pass step 2 right now.  But I'm not in EM, which I think definitely would help bigtime in passing it given the breadth of what you see that I have completely forgotten.  Step 3, I just took it this year, and I definitely think you'd ace it given you see in EM is essentially exactly what Step 3 tests....  

Step 1 would be a massive pain in the ass for me right now too.  I'd fail it hard.  

Honestly, a little biochem and pathophys, and a few core clinicals and you're golden. 

Fourth year med school is pretty chill anyway so you don't need that.  A year at most should be enough for experienced PAs.  After that, you get your degree and just take the three steps, and apply to residencies like everyone else.   

People tend to be too defensive about their little turf.   It's crazy. 

I wish more physicians understood our training and the role we actually fill in health care.

[lkth487]

I think maybe it helps that I'm going into a specialty where PAs have a strong presence, so maybe the next generation of physicians will be different.  Also I am training at a place where for many rotations, we have both PA and med students rotating with us, so it's easy to see the similarities and the differences between the students.

I would say, with no disrespect intended, that I would not get rid of or change the residency/fellowship requirements for even people experienced in the field.  (I would say the same thing for the board certified family medicine physician who has been doing EM for decades - I would make them do the EM residency to be boarded in EM for example).  I think there is 1) a lot of value in having a standardized didactic and training experience, and 2) perhaps more importantly, it is a way for everyone to be sure that the person has met the requirements (ACGME, for all their faults, tend to be very good about ensuring minimal standards at every residency), so you have a lot of confidence that the person you see has had certain experiences.

[EMEDPA]

I agree 100% with your sentiments. If I ever went back I would not expect a short cut in the residency phase.

[EMEDPA]

if there were a PA em residency near me I would seriously consider it even now. I know I have holes in my knowledge of things like u/s, neurosurg, ent, ophtho, etc that are core rotations of any em residency.

[lkth487]

At some point we have to disagree just for the sake of the thread ;).   This is too much holding hands, singing kumbaya.  :p

[south]

On 12/22/2017 at 7:04 PM, lkth487 said:

At some point we have to disagree just for the sake of the thread ;).   This is too much holding hands, singing kumbaya.  :p

Okay.  

Sports team from my area is vastly superior to sports team from your area!  GO SPORTS TEAM FROM MY AREA.  You will suffer humiliation when my sports team soundly defeats your sports team!

https://local.theonion.com/you-will-suffer-humiliation-when-the-sports-team-from-m-1819583814

(just in case I get suspected of being original)

 

[PAtoMD]

1 hour ago, south said:

Okay.  

Sports team from my area is vastly superior to sports team from your area!  GO SPORTS TEAM FROM MY AREA.  You will suffer humiliation when my sports team soundly defeats your sports team!

https://local.theonion.com/you-will-suffer-humiliation-when-the-sports-team-from-m-1819583814

(just in case I get suspected of being original)

 

I legitimately thought this was one of the spam posts that occasionally come on this forum until I saw the onion article.

Bravo.

[wktk222]

Do you guys see more bridge programs opening in the future?

I do agree that 3 years for a bridge is a bit too long. 

[PolakPA]

LMU is trying to pass the  "Doctor of Medical Science Act" (DMS) program, For PAs that have 3 years of experience to be licensed as "new type of physician." It's a two year program. They're supposed to vote on it soon. It is not a bridge program, but a step in the right direction, I think.
 
Bill Link: http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/110/Bill/SB0850.pdf

Tennessee legislative website: http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/billinfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=SB0850

 

[EMEDPA]

state of WA already smacked it down hard. I applaud their concept, but don't think it will go anywhere beyond a postgrad program.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

1 hour ago, EMEDPA said:

state of WA already smacked it down hard. I applaud their concept, but don't think it will go anywhere beyond a postgrad program.

Been in committee for nearly a year. Likely it’s grave. One can hope it’ll survive