Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hey everyone, 

I am a new graduate and I have been working for an Ortho and Spine group in southern CA for 6 months. I started taking phone call about 3 months after my start date without additional compensation. I currently do phone call every 3rd weekend. My job is now discussing that I take hospital call as well, but they only pay if the PA gets called in for trauma surgery. The PA does not get compensated for being on call and not getting called in. The PA does not get paid for rotating on patient's during the week or on weekends. If a patient is in the hospital during the week, then the PA goes in before office hours, which begins between 7 and 8 am. 

My contract DOES NOT discuss call at all. I know I should have added something about call in my contract, but I didn't and now here I am. 

Half the PA's do only phone call and the other half do only hospital call. Now our practice seems to want all the PA's on hospital call and phone call, which is fair. However, I don't believe it is fair that we are not compensated for our time. Half of the PA's seem to be on board to try to get our company to compensate for call. Unfortunately, the PA's that are pushing to get paid for call are the newer PA's that make less salary and money for the practice.

Our ortho doctor just started trauma call and he gets paid by the hospital to be on call, even if he does not go in. I don't believe our spine doctor gets paid unless he performs the surgery, however, he is the owner of the practice, so he basically gets paid for everything billed. 

 

QUESTIONS FOR YOU: 

- Do you get compensated for call? 

- If so, how much? 

- Do you do hospital call or phone call? Both? 

- Do you get paid even if you do not go in? 

- Do you know of any resources or surveys that show PA call compensation? 

 

Thank you so much for your assistance! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say it's very simple. Either compensate me for call or I'm not doing call. Don't get taken advantage of especially if it's not in your contract

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey man, I don't really take call but I'm in a big ortho group in so cal as well. If it's not in your contract and your pay doesn't reflect it, I'd negotiate a call rate. What does your compensation look like? 

 

Edit: Nvm I saw your other post. Ya I get paid very similar with no call. I'd negotiate a rate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally...

I DON'T work for free. ..!

If I can't sleep in ... or have a beer, breakfast/lunch or dinner in... another town/state/provence ... I can't be as incapacitated/unavailable as "I" want to be... I can't wake up ... hung-over... on a boat with a big ass fish on the line... on agreed upon days and hours off... then I'm working. 

Again...

I DON'T WORK FOR FREE...!!!

(Unless I'm doing charity.)

 

: - l

Carry  on 

YMMV 

BST 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been working in Sports Med in CA for 2 years now, been a PA for 2.5 years, but I take trauma call, as the surgeon I work for does sports med/arthroplasty/trauma, we do everything but spine while on call. I take call q7weeks x 72hrs (Fri 8am-Mon 8am), no weekday call (our residents take call during the week), no phone calls while at home. 

- Do you get compensated for call? Yes.

- If so, how much? split stipend with SP, we are paid 1099 by the hospital we are contracted with. This is the only 1099 portion of my job, its nice to make the extra money despite the tax liability. 

- Do you do hospital call or phone call? See above.

- Do you get paid even if you do not go in? Yes, I get 1/2 surgeons stipend per day x 3 days per call weekend, if I come in or not. 

- Do you know of any resources or surveys that show PA call compensation? No. 

What I've found as a PA, is that you need to negotiate for what you want. Either your surgeon trains someone new, if asking you to work for free and you saying "no," is a deal breaker for him/her. Or, they compensate you. If you have to be sober, available and willing to drive to work at anytime, then you are at work. 

The thing you need to realize is this, surgeons do not work for free. Why should you? Ask up front; how much is the surgeons stipend paid for call? is the surgeon paid even if they come in or not? Ask for 50%, I don't think this is unreasonable, while on call I pick up the phone at anytime, lose sleep, round on patients on Sat/Sun morning, schedule pt to OR, admit, manage inpt, write consults/H&Ps, initiate consults for pt medical maximization and follow up, consent patients, show up earlier than my SP to ensure pt is positioned and we are draped on time, + 1st assist.

My SP shows up, co-signs the consents, signs the pt, and does surgery, and then takes off. 

Don't forget, your surgeon gets paid to be on call if he/she comes in or not, + gets paid for the surgery, and your 1st assist fee. No one should take call for free. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in a somewhat similar situation, except I should have done something about it sooner. I have been a surgical PA for 6 years now with the same 2 surgeons in Gyn Oncology. When I first started, I was a new grad and very naive about job expectations. I started salary based pay and worked M-F +call every 3rd weekend (including phone call and hospital rounds on any inpatients in 3 hospitals) without any additional pay for call. This was admittedly pretty brutal, but again, I was naive and thinking this is just how it goes. Here's the thing though-- my surgeons don't actually get paid for call either. This is because of our specialty and the fact that they are paid on productivity. Fast forward 4 years, we moved medical groups and added another surgeon and PA. I get paid about 30k more than I did when I originally started, and call is now q5 weekends instead of q3. My schedule due to the specialty, is somewhat unpredictable. Some days I work 14 hour days, and some days I don't come in at all if there are no surgeries and no patients in the hospitals to round on. I average about 30-36 hours each week without taking call into play. While the flexibility is nice, the unpredictably can be pretty frustrating as a wife and mom of 2 kids. There are about 50-60 other PAs/NPs in our multi medical group practice (about 400 MD/DOs). Besides only a few other specialties, the other PAs and NPs don't take call at all. It basically depends on what the supervising physicians want or expect of their PAs. I love working in my specialty and really enjoy working with my surgeons. But I'm starting to feel like I want a job with no call. Or at least compensation for call. Unfortunately, since I've been doing this so long now, I don't know how to "demand" it. My advice to the OP is to request compensation now... don't wait too long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

    • By Sharjeel85
      Pre PA advice from an Orthopedic PA...stay tuned for more pa program faculty and PA interviews. Follow us on Facebook or Instagram @mypabox
      9D129A42-AE3A-4371-9723-258CCABB6C80.mp4
    • By jersey33
      What is the process of creating a clinical site or at least an affiliation with a doctor or organization for one student to do a rotation at? I have been desperately trying to get clinical rotations in CA, my home, while I am currently out of state. I have situational depression and I know that being able to do rotations back at home would help immensely with my focus, happiness, and health, but my school won't budge in helping me. Their reasoning was that it's too much work for them to make affiliations with new sites. I have found doctors willing to take me in for rotations though, so the only thing left would be the paperwork which I thought was in large part filled out by the preceptor. Does anyone know anything about this, and if so, could you please help me understand?
    • By almostdone
      Hi! I'm new to the forum and wanted to ask some career advice from all the pros out there. 
      I will graduate in 6 weeks and have been lucky enough to receive two job offers in a pretty rural area.  However, I'm really struggling between the two.  I've made a pros/cons list and still haven't come to any conclusion.  One is my ideal speciality (peds ortho) while the other is in a speciality I've never wanted to work in but seems to offer a fantastic work environment, SP, and more money. I was approached by the physician for this job and considered it as jobs are somewhat scarce in my area. I would love some insight on what has provided you with the most happiness in your career. Was it work environment, a speciality you're passionate about, salary or lifestyle?  I am married with a 9 year old too so lifestyle kinda automatically factors in for me. 
      I will list a summary of the two and appreciate any advice on the offers!
      1) Ob/Gyn private practice with first assist duties at his private surgery center and hospital for deliveries/sections
      94K base salary with bonus of 10% on anything I bill over $52250 per quarter Contracted-60 days notice required for both parties; can break contract for any reason Noncompete for 1 year in that county only (not the county I live in) and that speciality only  Mon-Thurs (4 10 hr shifts = just 40 hrs a week) Typical week for him includes 65 patients a day, 8 deliveries a week, and 6-8 surgeries a week I will have to build my own patient schedule as he has never had a PA only PA students (little concerned he has never had a PA and in his mid 60's) 3 weeks PTO, 1 week CME 2500 CME (includes fees, dues, licensure) Malpractice with tail coverage included  Pays for my health insurance (family coverage is available but extra) No 401K offered Gave no reference to evals/raises/increase structure but when asked stated we could discuss them anytime I desired No call SP says he has no expectations for me and will fully train me; I can begin seeing patients when I feel ready as early or late as I am comfortable with Moonlighting ok, doesn't need approval 2) Peds Ortho with travel for large multispeciality practice; typically 5 clinic days/2-3 OR mornings with first assist duties
      90K base salary with  statement of "bonus may be given by SP physician and will vary"  (got a flat "no" when I countered with 94 to try to make it equal to my prev offer) Starting pay of $15 an hour until I have licensure (they stated temp licensure would suffice)  NO contract-letter of intent only and states "may be terminated at will" at bottom (I used to work for this company and never had any issues before but this bothers me) NO noncompete Mon-Fri with no definitive schedule;  M, W, TR are OR mornings and clinic the other times Multiple locations each day with lunch used to travel to a different office His current PA said she was "happy" with her hours and only offered that they varied with two "long days" a week  I'm estimating at least 55 hrs a week with drive time  2 weeks PTO, 1 week sick, 1 week CME $2500 CME (includes fees, dues, licensure); must be paid back if I leave within 1 year of them paying for it Malpractice with tail coverage included Stated his patient load and surgery schedule varied by season (busier when kids are in school and playing sports and when deductibles are met) Health insurance begins after 90 days; I am responsible for the cost and that was not provided 401K with 4% matching Ignored my question about raises/eval when I asked in email I have since found out the company states they are on a salary freeze which began 4 years ago when I worked there! Call (two types: phone post ops and level 1 trauma hospital call 1-2 times a month); gave no clear layout for this or how this factored in to pay; there is nothing about this in the "letter of intent" Option to work UC once I am trained (stated this would be an extra hourly rate but did not state how much and said this could be discussed later if I was interested) He covers 8 locations and I would be responsible for half of them once fully trained...so lots of travel Mileage reimbursed at .52 to any location outside of my home facility Monthly cellphone stipend of $100 PA friendly company-facility has multiple (55+) PAs and frequently hires new grads so I'm assuming he understands the training process States he is willing to train me and also has a PA to train with that has been with him for a 1 year (last one was there 6 years before moving out of state) I've always wanted to do peds ortho so that excites me, but I was a little disheartened by the immediate "no" to my counter offer and the lack of structure in their letter of intent. I had to press for the benefits to be sent as it simply stated eligible for benefits and PTO. It's kind of like pulling teeth to get information that seems like it should be included without question.  Also, the bolded statement saying they could "fire me at will" requiring my signature makes me uneasy as a new grad. The lack of job schedule and description is somewhat worrisome too.  I would love to have a little bit of heads up on my schedule as I have a family and a 9 year old. Maybe this is common for ortho though?? Sounds like they plan to work me to as much as possible for little as possible.  Should I just accept this if this is my dream speciality, do my time as a new grad, and bolt once I've gained experience? Also, is this offer even fair? Does this offer seem sketchy or am I being paranoid? 
      Women's health has NEVER been a field I've had any interest in, but the SP seems amazing! I've heard that's so important for new grads. Plus, he has been waiting on me to finish to school saying he felt like I was the perfect fit for his office and practice. Four 10 hr shifts is also nice for my family. His offer was more structured, clear and reasonable.  He originally offered 88 and then fully accepted my counter offer stating he wanted me to feel I was an equal in his practice should I decide to take the position.  I feel like if I go down the Women's Health road, it will be harder for me to transition to any other speciality. 
      Ok. I've rambled long enough. Thank you in advance!
       
    • By Chrissylee
      Starting a post for the 2018-2019 cycle for Cal Baptist University's PA program! Good luck everyone!
       
    • By quarterlengthsleeve
      I graduated PA school last May and 6 months ago I started "my dream job"  - Ortho surgery. I was told it was going to be working 40hrs/week, half clinic half surgery,  no call.. it all sounded perfect. Now this is my current reality - I am pushing 6 months at this place, love the field and a couple of coworkers. However the doc that was supposed to be a "super nice teacher" is done with me it seems like. At the current time I am working about 10-12 hours every day and scheduled to start taking calls soon. This amount of time plus the calls arrangement is not what I was told this position would be like during interviewing. That being said, I realize that I am getting so much experience, and being a new grad I can use as much of it as I can get. The major problem is the doc I work closely with. He gets upset with me when I ask him questions or am unsure about something, he was really good about walking me through a lot of stuff for the first few weeks but very early on I was expected to be a fully functional partner. I entered this job with them knowing that I am a new grad. I lack so much experience and despite my success in school this isn't something I learned before or even something I can pick up from a book. There are so many cases and they all can be so vastly different, even if its all shoulders. In my mind I think that patient safety and well being comes first but the doc I work with has been upset for some time as he thinks I am slowing them down. Basically for the last month or so he has been avoiding me as much as she can. I try not to ask him questions and instead go to my other colleagues, but i feel like his attitude isn't fostering a professional relationship between us. I can see that he is not fully wrong in expecting more of me but I don't know why they hired a new grad knowing that it would be very difficult for me to work on par with him within just a few short months. Just a couple of days ago he sat me down to tell me he isn't sure if we are a good fit for each other and that we should both think about that as my 6 month performance evaluation is around the corner. I knew that he has been annoyed with me and mostly sees me as a "kid" but this really took me by surprise. Especially since I asked him no more than a month ago how I could improve or what I am not doing well... to which he responded - "you are doing great". So now I don't know if I will even have a job by the end of April. Has anyone had similar situations? Am I supposed to start applying for other jobs? Do you think that a 6 month employment period will look super bad to new potential employers? I've been thinking about what he said and have come up with a few things I want to talk to him about further. I plan to speak to him again this week and tell him what I plan on doing to better my work flow and increase my knowledge as well as ways in which our relationship could be smoother (aka better communication on his part) but even if he doesn't fire me I don't know how we can come back from this. Sorry for the long post but i just needed to vent a little bit. 
      Thanks for your replies in advance!
×

Important Information

Welcome to the Physician Assistant Forum! This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Learn More