Low GPA, High HCE

[nowRRTfuturePA]

Hey guys.  I'm just starting some post-bacc classes and plan on applying to PA school during the next cycle.  I'm worried my application won't be competitive because of my GPA.  My cumulative GPA is currently 3.01.  I know... I barely meet the minimum requirement for most schools.  My first couple years in my late teens are really dragging that down.  Late in my college career I got things back on track.  I graduated with a BS in respiratory care, and had a 3.47 in RT school.  The problem is, my cumulative GPA spans 5 years of being a full-time student.  Even if I get a 4.0 in all my post-bacc courses, I can only get it around 3.13.  My top choice only looks at cumulative.  They don't consider sGPA or GPA over the last few terms.  My understanding is that CASPA will count ALL of my RT schooling in my science GPA, though.  If someone can confirm this, it would be much appreciated.

What I do have going for me is my HCE.  I have somewhere between 16-18k hours (1.5 years phlebotomy, 9 years RT).  Has anyone been in this situation?  I'm curious how schools balance GPA with HCE.  Due to many of my pre-reqs being too old, I won't qualify for most schools next cycle, but I will for my top choice.  It just so happens that it's in state and I've worked there for the last 7 years.  If I don't get in this cycle, I'll have retaken enough pre-reqs to meet the requirements of about 10 programs I'm looking at.

I haven't taken the GRE yet, but plan to in the coming months.  No shadow hours as of yet, but I've got a couple things lined up.  I've started doing some volunteering with some educational opportunities related to my profession.  I'm hoping I'll have 100 volunteer hours by the time I apply.

Will my application be competitive assuming I do well in my post-bacc classes?  Advice?

Thanks in advance,

nowRRTfuturePA

[hustleforthePAC]

I started off 3 years ago with a 2.69 brought it up to a 3.05, now 3.1 with 3.8 Science. Going on my 4th interview, tomorrow. second cycle. You will definitely qualify for interviews if you apply to many schools. I'm just an emt B. You're in good shape since you have valuable high end health care experience, it will work in your favor if you apply to schools that look at your last 60 units. Your rt experience will be valuable to your future pa classmates. Keep pushing and don't let a number deter you from pursuing your dreams! 

[JD2012]

To anyone with low GPA, one should always have it in the back of their minds to be prepared to apply more than one cycle.  Also, realize if the GPA is somewhat low, the rest of your application has to shine and take the attention away from the bruise of a low GPA. Get those LOR's sparkling, personal statement as attention-grabbing as Lady Gaga, and sell yourself without sounding cocky.

Your experience is plenty and as long as you do it right, you may even get in the first time, especially with applying to the right programs. Don't apply blindly, do your research and see if your stats fall in line with previously accepted classes. Lastly, apply to at least more than 10 programs if your budget allows.  I have no doubt, you'll eventually nab something.

Don't settle for anything less than an A. 

I was accepted this cycle, my 2nd, with 3.2 GPA's all around and 3680 hrs PCE as a PT Aide. So, definitely doable.

[PACrankset]

7 hours ago, nowRRTfuturePA said:

Hey guys.  I'm just starting some post-bacc classes and plan on applying to PA school during the next cycle.  I'm worried my application won't be competitive because of my GPA.  My cumulative GPA is currently 3.01.  I know... I barely meet the minimum requirement for most schools.  My first couple years in my late teens are really dragging that down.  Late in my college career I got things back on track.  I graduated with a BS in respiratory care, and had a 3.47 in RT school.  The problem is, my cumulative GPA spans 5 years of being a full-time student.  Even if I get a 4.0 in all my post-bacc courses, I can only get it around 3.13.  My top choice only looks at cumulative.  They don't consider sGPA or GPA over the last few terms.  My understanding is that CASPA will count ALL of my RT schooling in my science GPA, though.  If someone can confirm this, it would be much appreciated.

What I do have going for me is my HCE.  I have somewhere between 16-18k hours (1.5 years phlebotomy, 9 years RT).  Has anyone been in this situation?  I'm curious how schools balance GPA with HCE.  Due to many of my pre-reqs being too old, I won't qualify for most schools next cycle, but I will for my top choice.  It just so happens that it's in state and I've worked there for the last 7 years.  If I don't get in this cycle, I'll have retaken enough pre-reqs to meet the requirements of about 10 programs I'm looking at.

I haven't taken the GRE yet, but plan to in the coming months.  No shadow hours as of yet, but I've got a couple things lined up.  I've started doing some volunteering with some educational opportunities related to my profession.  I'm hoping I'll have 100 volunteer hours by the time I apply.

Will my application be competitive assuming I do well in my post-bacc classes?  Advice?

Thanks in advance,

nowRRTfuturePA

I would say you are in pretty good shape, seems like you have a good plan. You may not get an interview next cycle with only applying to one school, but you have a plan for that. Your HCE is a shining point on your application, it is high quality and sounds like you work at the Hospital affiliated with the University. That is another thing on your side, try and get some glowing LOR's from some of the faculty if you have the connections. This would go a long way towards making you successful next cycle.

[SCHW9076]

I was accepted my second cycle with 3.2c/ 3.1s, 14,000 hours as a medic. Plan to apply broadly and be malleable... as applicants, we can only try to fit in the mold, not the other way around. Good luck,  OP!

[nowRRTfuturePA]

Thanks for the advice.  I'm prepared to apply multiple cycles to a wide variety of schools.  I'm really hoping to stay close to home, though.  How many LORs do you guys recommend?  I've got commitments for 4 solid ones - 1 attending and 1 PA from my hospital job.  Also, CEO and direct supervisor from my part-time job.  I could probably get more if needed.

[hustleforthePAC]

Thanks for the advice.  I'm prepared to apply multiple cycles to a wide variety of schools.  I'm really hoping to stay close to home, though.  How many LORs do you guys recommend?  I've got commitments for 4 solid ones - 1 attending and 1 PA from my hospital job.  Also, CEO and direct supervisor from my part-time job.  I could probably get more if needed.

everyone has similar grades but imo it boils down to work exp
Quality over quantity, if 4 have a lot of great things to say about you it'll work in your favor. The Great lors will get you interviews but how you sell yourself will seal the deal. Upplay your valuable rt experience!


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[emily1016]

I agree with @JD2012 completely. Make sure you have things on your app that make up for the lower GPA. I applied this cycle with a 3.49 cGPA and a 3.14 sGPA, but I made sure that I had a decent amount of PCE and also volunteering hours, which is why I think I got several interview offers. Your PCE is very high, and if you top that off with 3 great LORs and a well-written personal statement, I have absolutely no doubt that you will get multiple interviews. Best of luck to you 

[paproof]

I was in a similar situation (actually worse) as you when I applied to school.  Never made it about the 3.0 threshold.  I interviewed at 2 programs (and was accepted to both), both stating that one of the main reasons why they interviewed me was because of my personal statement.  I had just over 5000 HCE hours when I applied.  Trust me, it can be done and there are so many applicants out there with worse stats than yours.  As others mentioned above, your personal statement is one of your best chances to convince these programs that they should interview you, so be sure yours is dynamite.  Just don't give up!

[moleashish]

I'll add my story here to keep you encouraged and motivated. I just got accepted to a PA program. It can be done. I haven't really shared my stats yet but here it goes, cGPA 3.2 ish, sGPA 3.0. However, PCE, HCE close to 20k hours. Tons of volunteering with underserved community and some leadership roles (officer positions and teaching position). What I feel made the difference was my experience, and personal statement. That's all you can do. At this point if you have good upward trend for GPA you are good and just strengthen your application in other ways. Keep making it stronger. Show them this is what you want. Even if it takes you more than one try. 

After that you wait for interview. Practice, practice, and practice some more for interviews. Kill it during interview. And you will be in a PA program in the future. 

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[DNWG89]

I'm in a similar boat and am finishing up applying now. I have 4 years experience as a Medical Technologist. However my GPA during undergrad was low due to combination of illness and overscheduling (worked two jobs etc), its 3.0 pretty much on the dot. When I went to technologist school my GPA there was 3.4-3.5 so it shows an improvement. I am taking some science classes (A n P 1 and 2) now and I will hopefully get A's on those classes so fingers crossed. My GRE last month was a 320 so solid there.  I am willing to apply to any accredited school so I'm flexible there.

My LORs are a lab director, my supervisior, and a blood bank manager I work with who have high opinions of me so hopefully they were good. Unfortunately I do not know any PAs well enough to get a rec. I'll look into shadowing in the Spring for the next cycle if I don't get in now.  

 

But I do worry I'm spinning my wheels. Anyone have any additional advice?

[Guest hcruz496]

 

On 11/3/2017 at 3:19 AM, nowRRTfuturePA said:

Hey guys.  I'm just starting some post-bacc classes and plan on applying to PA school during the next cycle.  I'm worried my application won't be competitive because of my GPA.  My cumulative GPA is currently 3.01.  I know... I barely meet the minimum requirement for most schools.  My first couple years in my late teens are really dragging that down.  Late in my college career I got things back on track.  I graduated with a BS in respiratory care, and had a 3.47 in RT school.  The problem is, my cumulative GPA spans 5 years of being a full-time student.  Even if I get a 4.0 in all my post-bacc courses, I can only get it around 3.13.  My top choice only looks at cumulative.  They don't consider sGPA or GPA over the last few terms.  My understanding is that CASPA will count ALL of my RT schooling in my science GPA, though.  If someone can confirm this, it would be much appreciated.

What I do have going for me is my HCE.  I have somewhere between 16-18k hours (1.5 years phlebotomy, 9 years RT).  Has anyone been in this situation?  I'm curious how schools balance GPA with HCE.  Due to many of my pre-reqs being too old, I won't qualify for most schools next cycle, but I will for my top choice.  It just so happens that it's in state and I've worked there for the last 7 years.  If I don't get in this cycle, I'll have retaken enough pre-reqs to meet the requirements of about 10 programs I'm looking at.

I haven't taken the GRE yet, but plan to in the coming months.  No shadow hours as of yet, but I've got a couple things lined up.  I've started doing some volunteering with some educational opportunities related to my profession.  I'm hoping I'll have 100 volunteer hours by the time I apply.

Will my application be competitive assuming I do well in my post-bacc classes?  Advice?

Thanks in advance,

nowRRTfuturePA

I am an x-ray tech.  All of my x-ray classes at the school I attended went towards my CASPA non-science GPA.  I would apply to all of the 10 schools you said you are interested. Make sure you do well on the GRE and make sure your personal statement is engaging.

 I had about 20,000 hours HCE and got invited to every school I applied to.   I also had little volunteer hours.  

 

[vlandis]

Also adding my stats also to keep you encouraged for when you apply. 

Cum GPA: 3.08, SGPA 3.17 Post bac 4.0. GRE 299

HCE >21000 as a primary care medical assistant. LORs from 2 PAs, 2 MDs and1 from biology professor (one of my MD letters was from a CEO and supervisor as well). 38 shadowing hours (2 PAs, 1 MD) 600 volunteering hours in the community, mostly at a non-profit helping homeless women and with my church.

I only applied 3 places, received one rejection, one interview, and one waitlist for interview. My one interview panned out and I was accepted!

I think what helped me the most was my personal statement- I outlined that I worked full time through college and was responsible for taking care of my mother who was and is ill, the reason for my lower GPA. I also think it helped that my LORs were from providers who knew me extremely well and I think they wrote good letters.

I agree with everyone's advice to look into the type of student that the school typically accepts when figuring out where to apply. I only applied to schools that worked the best for me geographically. Although I was lucky enough to get accepted into my top choice, in hindsight I might have received more interviews if I did my homework on the schools I applied to. 

I really wish you the best of luck on your application cycle! Hang in there and don't be too intimidated by everyone else!

[Erskinesimone38]

Hello, 

I am in a difficult time myself with applying to PA school. For me I have about 800 PCE not including the PAs I shadowed and the MDs, I also worked for a hospital as a peer counselor which work at the grass roots of communities. Within that position I led/hosted many community events for mothers and fathers of poverty with children who were drug addicted etc. get connected to resources within the hospital as well as programs in the community to help them with food, clothing, housing Information, the list goes on. I also hosted community baby showers for families who could not afford them, and also went out into the homeless shelters and schools and was a sexual health educator. I currently work for an Ophthalmologist as a medical assistant, and currently taking pre-req courses. Both science and cumulative GPA are 3.01. Does anyone think I have a chance at getting into a PA program at all next cycle of 2018-2019? By that time I should have about 2000 PCE. 

 

If not can anyone tell me what I should do differently? 

[robins53]

5 hours ago, Erskinesimone38 said:

Hello, 

I am in a difficult time myself with applying to PA school. For me I have about 800 PCE not including the PAs I shadowed and the MDs, I also worked for a hospital as a peer counselor which work at the grass roots of communities. Within that position I led/hosted many community events for mothers and fathers of poverty with children who were drug addicted etc. get connected to resources within the hospital as well as programs in the community to help them with food, clothing, housing Information, the list goes on. I also hosted community baby showers for families who could not afford them, and also went out into the homeless shelters and schools and was a sexual health educator. I currently work for an Ophthalmologist as a medical assistant, and currently taking pre-req courses. Both science and cumulative GPA are 3.01. Does anyone think I have a chance at getting into a PA program at all next cycle of 2018-2019? By that time I should have about 2000 PCE. 

 

If not can anyone tell me what I should do differently? 

Do your research and apply to schools that weigh heavy on community service. PM and I can share my experience with you. Good luck

[Allioop]

Hey! I am/was a RRT too. I did poorly my first 2 years of undergrad. I was a kid and thought having fun was more important than grades....this caught up to me when I decided to pursue PA because CASPA takes all classes ever taken into account making my overall GPA a 3.16 (ouch)

Since I knew my GPA was not competitive I had to lead with my other strengths. What I did was look for school that had a holistic approach to reviewing applications, this means they take healthcare experience, essays and your recommendations into account far more than other schools that just go by GPA.

I was a RRT for 7 years and did a lot within my department. I had pulmonary doctors, my teachers and my boss write my recommendations and I wrote some very thoughtful essay's. It worked for me, I got in on my first try despite my low GPA. This is awesome because I was at 9 years for A&P, Microbiology and statistics and if I didn't get in I would have had to retake all of those sciences and try again.

Anyway, definitely look into schools that have multiple essay's, personal statements and say they have a holistic application process! Best of luck!

[JMAF12]

Hello everyone! I know you probably get a million of these all the time but if you can take the minute to read this and help out that would be absolutely amazing and appreciated.

So to tell you a little about myself, I graduated in May 2017 with a Bachelors of Science in Biology and a Minor in Chemistry. My cGPA (according to my undergrad) is 3.24 and I have also taken 2 additional courses at community college in which I received an A in both 2 credit and 3 credit courses (in hope to slightly raise my cgpa). I have not calculated my science GPA but it looks promising. My current HCE consists of shadowing at a family practice for 100 hours (with physician), currently working with a physician as his Medical Scribe (approximately over 350 hours at the moment) for a cardiology group, completing my MA, phlebotomy, and EKG certifications this month to work and receive direct patient care hours, and I applied to become the Chief Scribe or the manager for the medical scribes of the company which also looks extremely promising. I have worked in a pharmacy, however, nothing medically related, only billing and filing. As for volunteer work, I have worked with a "halfway house" for people with HIV/AIDs for 8+ years now and still till this day, I participated in Coast to Coast for a Cure which raised money for muscular diseases by walking 23 miles for 2 months (hard to explain), and lastly, I was apart of Delta Phi Epsilon for 3 years which adopted the philanthropy for CF, anorexia nervosa, and other associated disorders.

My real concern lies in my GPA and my GRE scores. My GRE is what I would consider horrible- 292 total. Standardize tests have never been my thing and my GPA is only low because physics and biochem screwed me royally haha. But I promise I am a diligent, intelligent, hard-working student and I am trying so hard to make up for the mistakes I made in undergrad. I am worried the schools will take one look at my GPA or GRE and throw my application out the window. I'm just not so sure I'm going to poke through anywhere.

Here are some of my pre-req courses to get an idea of science GPA. I really appreciate it everyone!

Gen Bio I & lab- A, A (respectively)

Gen Bio I & lab- A, A

Gen Chem I & lab- B, A

Gen Chem II & lab- C, A

STATS- B

Genetics- B

Cell Biology & lab- A

Microbiology & lab- B

Immunology & lab- A

Biochemistry (no lab)- C+

Orgo I & lab- A, A

Orgo II & lab- B, A

A&P I & lab- A, A

A&P II & lab- B+, A

 

***Also, I have no preference of schools but I do live in NJ and  plan on applying farthest 4 hours max***

Thank you!

[robins53]

On 1/7/2018 at 9:35 PM, JMAF12 said:

Hello everyone! I know you probably get a million of these all the time but if you can take the minute to read this and help out that would be absolutely amazing and appreciated.

So to tell you a little about myself, I graduated in May 2017 with a Bachelors of Science in Biology and a Minor in Chemistry. My cGPA (according to my undergrad) is 3.24 and I have also taken 2 additional courses at community college in which I received an A in both 2 credit and 3 credit courses (in hope to slightly raise my cgpa). I have not calculated my science GPA but it looks promising. My current HCE consists of shadowing at a family practice for 100 hours (with physician), currently working with a physician as his Medical Scribe (approximately over 350 hours at the moment) for a cardiology group, completing my MA, phlebotomy, and EKG certifications this month to work and receive direct patient care hours, and I applied to become the Chief Scribe or the manager for the medical scribes of the company which also looks extremely promising. I have worked in a pharmacy, however, nothing medically related, only billing and filing. As for volunteer work, I have worked with a "halfway house" for people with HIV/AIDs for 8+ years now and still till this day, I participated in Coast to Coast for a Cure which raised money for muscular diseases by walking 23 miles for 2 months (hard to explain), and lastly, I was apart of Delta Phi Epsilon for 3 years which adopted the philanthropy for CF, anorexia nervosa, and other associated disorders.

My real concern lies in my GPA and my GRE scores. My GRE is what I would consider horrible- 292 total. Standardize tests have never been my thing and my GPA is only low because physics and biochem screwed me royally haha. But I promise I am a diligent, intelligent, hard-working student and I am trying so hard to make up for the mistakes I made in undergrad. I am worried the schools will take one look at my GPA or GRE and throw my application out the window. I'm just not so sure I'm going to poke through anywhere.

Here are some of my pre-req courses to get an idea of science GPA. I really appreciate it everyone!

Gen Bio I & lab- A, A (respectively)

Gen Bio I & lab- A, A

Gen Chem I & lab- B, A

Gen Chem II & lab- C, A

STATS- B

Genetics- B

Cell Biology & lab- A

Microbiology & lab- B

Immunology & lab- A

Biochemistry (no lab)- C+

Orgo I & lab- A, A

Orgo II & lab- B, A

A&P I & lab- A, A

A&P II & lab- B+, A

 

***Also, I have no preference of schools but I do live in NJ and  plan on applying farthest 4 hours max***

Thank you!

You have really good stats. I was accepted to a program with below average GRE scores and c/sGPA ourbof undergrad and took classes to build my GPA. Just have to research and apply to schools that takes a holistic look at the entire application and not just focus on GPA. Good luck with everything

Feel free to PM and I can share more with you. As I do not publicly share my grades on the forum because I am a firm believer that grades are not what makes or break your application.

best,

Jazmine

[Molls1122]

Jazmine,

 

can you pm me as I have some questions because I feel I’m in a similar situation. 

 

Thank you,

Molly