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An alternative to the PANRE?


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I am due in 2018 and it's an interesting choice.  Not sure which one I will take yet.

 

I find it interesting that there is no passing score or threshold wit the new format.   

 

+ don't have to go to a testing center

+ divided into more reasonable chunks

+ can extend your license for an extra year

+ 12 month extension to complete PANRE if pilot program is not completed/passed

- requires some time commitment to studying for a test over a period of 2 years

- won't know if you pass until 2 years later

+/- same cost

+/- able to use references, but will the passing standard be 'graded on a curve?'

 

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2 hours ago, ALC0313 said:

So if you do this pilot, do you take the 25 question tests for the 2 years and then you're good for 10 years? Or do you have to keep taking the 25 questions every 2 year cycle @ $350 a pop...

I think then you're good for 10 years.  If this pilot works then every 10 years you will have the option of this or traditional PANRE test. 

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I like the sounds of this. It is spread out, but you will complete the questions within 30-90 minutes and be done for the quarter. You can take it when it's convenient for you and have the ability if needed to use resources. Getting it done in one sitting is nice, but I like this better!

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The "upside" is the test is supposed to have more basic questions.  I called NCCPA and asked them "how do you study for this?" The guy said, you don't.  The test questions are on topics...and I quote:  "Every PA should just know, walking around knowledge"...The sample question they had was pretty basic, but that was only one example.  I'm going to do it, as I was scheduled to take the PANRE in 2018 as well.  The guy said if after two years they add everything up and determine I failed, then I would be given a year to pass the PANRE.  I would keep certification during that time.  Honestly, anything that gives me a chance to get out of that thing after 25 years of taking it, is worth a shot to me.

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17 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

only downside, this is still a "high stakes exam". it's a slow-motion panre spread out over 2 years. one can still fail. there is no option for remediation as far as I can tell.

Well for the pilot if you fail then you are extended an additional year to take the tradition PANRE.  If that continues past the pilot then there will be option for remediation. 

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On 9/20/2017 at 7:15 PM, Boatswain2PA said:

Recent "newsblast" from NCCPA said there is a forthcoming announcement about an "alternative to the PANRE".

 

Anybody know what that is about?  Pay the NCCPA a grand and they grant you cerification???

OK so I am at the LAPA conference in New Orleans and I got to hear the presentation on this program. This is very much a pilot program in its earliest iteration. The question of what constitutes core knowledge is still being worked out using a large committee of working PAs. The test questions have not been fully developed yet because they are still working through "core knowledge". As of now what constitutes a pass or a fail has not been decided. It is conceivable that once that line is determined 100% could pass....or not. If you elect to participate you are volunteering to participate in a program that still is very much under development BUT they have a back-end protection for volunteers in that if you "fail" or,for some reason the program dissolves (though I doubt it will) you will get a 1 year extension of your certification (still have to log CME and pay fees) and you will need to take the PANRE. The PANRE will continue to be an option for people who want to take it. At least for the forseeable future you will be able to choose one or the other much like the old PATHWAY 2. Now I still have some issues with certification BUT I think this is a big big step in the right direction as far as the actual test goes. Uncoupling certification from licensure, for instance, is a different subject that will need to be addressed on its own.

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I am disappointed that it is still a written exam which is what most of the negative comments from "in the trenches" PA's was what they wanted to get away from.  Just another way of doing the same thing.  Kind of like a "bait and switch".  Sorry I am against it.

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I would like to see more sample test questions.  I like that they say you don't have to study and that it's "walking around knowledge" but we may have different interpretations of what that means.  Being in a specialty for almost 20 years, my walking around knowledge may not be the same as theirs.  It's still basically a test on all of internal medicine favoring primary care PAs (which I already passed with the PANCE and 2 prior PANREs).  I'd rather just cut them a check and have my supervising MD send them a letter saying I'm still proficient at my job.

If it were "open book" I'd do it in a heartbeat, but a couple minutes per question isn't enough time to peruse a lengthy UpToDate article.  I guess one advantage of doing it is that those in the trial run will likely be given more leniency than those in later years.  Will have to think about it more and hopefully they'll explain it better than they currently are.

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Since I won't have time to look stuff up, I can see myself sitting in front of my computer, taking the test and saying, "Hey Siri, what is the recommended treatment of choice for syndrome blah-blah-blah."

:)

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On 10/4/2017 at 6:53 AM, BruceBanner said:

 Sit down with Up To Date in one window and the test questions in the next.

That's a recipe for failure.  Just because the tests are small, doesn't mean the test question review/approval cycle is anywhere near where UpToDate's is.  Better to sit down with a 1-2 edition old Harrison's for your reference material...

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I don't work in the ER and got the sample question wrong! I don't know the latest-and-greatest rules for efficient use of head CT scans, so that isn't "walking around knowledge" for me.

 

At first, I thought I might like to try the pilot (I'm due in 2018 anyway) but now I'm not so sure. Maybe I'll just do my standard board review and take the PANRE; I'll be 82 before I would need to take it again!

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I, too, got the sample question wrong.  I figure if you fall, bang your head on the floor, hurt so bad that you go the ER for it, and have swelling and broken skin a lawyer's gonna ask why I didn't at least image the head.  But what do I know?  I work in GI  :)   

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I guess my problem with the PANRE is that it starts with the assumption that you are no longer qualified to keep working as a PA.  Therefore, you must prove to the NCCPA that you still deserve to be employed.  It doesn't factor in years of experience or recognize that some PAs work in specialty fields.  I think re-testing should be limited to PAs who, for example, have 2 or more lawsuits in a 10-year cycle, or have investigations opened against them by state medical boards, etc.  Everybody else just cuts a check for $400 or whatever to re-up their certification and submits CME credits.  Since it's all about money the NCCPA should be happy with that, unless there's a specific reason to question a PA's qualifications to work.  As far as I know, we're one of the few medical professions that has to "put it all on the line" every 6-10 years.

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I would like to see specialty PANREs. If you work in urology, you take the urology panre, etc.

I'm ok with limiting lateral mobility in this fashion. If you want to switch specialties , you study for and pass the panre in that specialty. If you want to do primary care you take the primary care panre, etc

I honestly think this is where we are headed. at some point you will likely need to do a residency to qualify to take a given specialty exam. it happened  to the docs, it will happen to us. and I don't know that it's a bad thing....the current CAQs could be the model for specialty panres.

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1 hour ago, shawk said:

I, too, got the sample question wrong.  I figure if you fall, bang your head on the floor, hurt so bad that you go the ER for it, and have swelling and broken skin a lawyer's gonna ask why I didn't at least image the head.  But what do I know?  I work in GI  :)   

I did as well.

Maybe if the test-question writers would write the questions with an attorney hovering over their shoulder, the questions would be more practical. Defensive medicine-minded questions, if you will.

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I did as well.
Maybe if the test-question writers would write the questions with an attorney hovering over their shoulder, the questions would be more practical. Defensive medicine-minded questions, if you will.
Lmao. I got it right..bc it's the right answer

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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I would like to see specialty PANREs. If you work in urology, you take the urology panre, etc.
I'm ok with limiting lateral mobility in this fashion. If you want to switch specialties , you study for and pass the panre in that specialty. If you want to do primary care you take the primary care panre, etc
I honestly think this is where we are headed. at some point you will likely need to do a residency to qualify to take a given specialty exam. it happened  to the docs, it will happen to us. and I don't know that it's a bad thing....the current CAQs could be the model for specialty panres.
Love you too E. Thanks for thinking of me!!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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They need to add one more answer to the sample test question (I just now went and read it):

Which of the following is the most appropriate next step?

(A) Anteroposterior and lateral x-ray studies of the skull (B) CT scan
(C) Discharge and observation by family or friends
(D) Hospital admission for observation

(E) MRI 

(F) Look over at the patient's mother/father/sister/husband/friend.  Explain each of the previous options, and what the consensus of the best experts and current research states, while carefully observing their facial expressions and/or body position/language.  Quickly refer back in your mind to the current quarterly satisfaction surveys, which are sent out by the folks in the 4th floor offices, with the private bathrooms and espresso machines, and consider how this will impact your next performance review.  If the patient and significant other smilingly nod in agreement with your assessment and explanation, thank you for being so kind, and ask if you have a private practice where they can establish you as their PCP, then move forward with option (C), and discharge the patient appropriately.  If you pick up on any hesitation, a subtle raise of the eyebrow, a teenage type "duck face", a roll of the eyes, a comment about a relative in the healthcare or lawyer business, a smug "Hmmph", or any other flag, then quickly offer to get them a coffee and danish to pass the time while you order the CT or MRI, and put in a consult for neurology.  Go home and sleep well, knowing that you were able to provide the highest level of customer service in the industry.  For the next week, refer to Yelp or Facebook, to see if the patient left at least a four star review, thereby ensuring that your job remains secure.

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I'm probably going to do it. I figure even if I fail, all that testing and thinking will make me better prepared for the PANRE anyway, and I'll have a year to pass it.

Bingo.. I'm due 2018/19 .. My life is going to get crazy soon

 

This means I'll have bite sized chunks though the end of 2020 starting Jan 2019.. Over a year away.. If I fail,I take regular Panre (2 shots) before the very end of 2021. That's 2-3 years out from when I would've needed to pass it based on my path.

Then the pilot continues in 10 years from there

 

I can spend my cme days and money on other trips and things until then

 

Sjd

 

 

 

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