Recognized redonk contract, but can it be worked around?

[ddiaz4]

 Hello PA friends!

I have an upcoming interview.... my very first one!!... and they were kind enough to send me the contract in advance.

Reading through it I see an early termination clause in which I would be asked to pay FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS if I were to leave before the end of three years.

I love longevity, but this is my first job out of PA school( and I don't graduate until December), and I don't have $50 much less $50,000. So that's a no. And there's not even a commensurate level of sign on bonuses (clearly no one is giving me 50k to sign on or any sign on bonus for that matter) and even if I figure that this is associated with the costs of having me as an employee like perhaps the total cost of three years worth of health insurance plus CME is 21k (no idea what it costs to add me to malpractice but I truly hope its not 29 Grand but who knows).... bottom line I don't know where this random 50k come from but still, no. Also, I have an illness that is currently controlled but that I worry about and so I really don't want to be bound to pay this especially if I can't work for some reason.....  and of course I don't want to disclose this information and screw myself out of a job.

But, can all this sad cluster be worked around?

My gut reaction is:

1. go to this interview and see if it's even worth the fuss of steps below

2. get a lawyer to review this contract if the place seems on the up and up

3. reach out and see if they are willing to drop this clause.

Are the steps above reasonable, is there another route you suggest, or is this whole thing just one huge red flashing sign screaming at me to not bother?

 

Thanks in advance for your help!!

 

[ddiaz4]

Jajajaja! If they are willing to drop this entirely I might still do it, but if not running shoes firmly strapped on! Thank you!!

[beattie228]

Hard no on that one. $50k?! 

 

I'd interview just to see if there was an option for that to be completely removed. Worse case, you can get an interview under your belt and gain a sense of the things to ask at the next go-around.

 

It's been my experience that nearly every part of an offer has wiggle room with the exception of corporate/big hospital positions.

[ddiaz4]

Thank you so much! This eas my sense too, but I am an unrefined podunk soul, and confirmation that this is not the norm is helpful.

i agree with you completely, this will be a nice practice interview if nothing more. I am excited about the chance, but not if its going to hurt me in unforeseen circumstances!

also, i am feeling that this is not something to address at the interview itself but only on extension of an offer.... is that about right? 

[beattie228]

3 minutes ago, ddiaz4 said:

Thank you so much! This eas my sense too, but I am an unrefined podunk soul, and confirmation that this is not the norm is helpful.

i agree with you completely, this will be a nice practice interview if nothing more. I am excited about the chance, but not if its going to hurt me in unforeseen circumstances!

also, i am feeling that this is not something to address at the interview itself but only on extension of an offer.... is that about right? 

I typically agree about not trying to discuss money on the initial interview (much more important to me to learn about the position and wait for them to extend the offer at a later time). With that said, I would certainly bring this up during my initial interview. Especially since it's an automatic deal-breaker. Perhaps a bean counter in the group thought it was a good decision (meaning it might be negotiable) or perhaps it's not something they're willing to budge on (meaning strap on your running shoes and run the hell away from that place).

[south]

Wow!  I was recently given a contract with a $10k penalty for breaking non-compete and one other provision that I can't remember. And I thought that was pretty rough!

The only use for that place is for interview practice.  They are hoping to sign some schmuck who caves to pressure or doesn't read something before signing it (which tragically does happen).  You are supposed to want to work there?  Be interesting to see what they say about it.   Let us know.

[ddiaz4]

Oh i will!! Juicy deets to follow my friends. Thank you again for your helpful comments everyone!

 

[ddiaz4]

Ok! That was FUN!

Beattie thank you for your guidance! I didnt see it before the actual interview, but very sound advice! 

The interview went well until the contract was brought up. Then it didn't necessarily go bad, but it got a little strange. 

The following message might involve reading waaay too much into things, bear with me.

 Interviewed with the practice owner and with another physician and the practice manager.  Two physicians with very different personalities, one very laid back (owner), the other very delving questions... almost a bit good cop, bad cop but in a pleasant way. 

A few notable points: several locations at this clinic with new grads and the practice owner did not know name or location they were at.... however states that this is a very supported position and that intital training is three months and always available by phone... somewhere threads snake together interlacing in the delicate patterns that may or may not eventually unfold as a red flag... maybe. Smart people opine liberally por favor.

Some conversations in regards to longevity: most PAs there have been there a 2+ years but a few cases were mentioned when I asked about a probationary period (there is none) and owner says that he's only had one case of someone being unamenable to teaching and then mentions one employee who left after three months because a long distance relationship wasnt working... how i itched to ask if he got 50k from true love, but tongue held. He then spins a short diatribe on how when you commit to a marriage you dont leave in three months you see it through despite mentoning several times ,unprovoked, during previous conversation people's right to leave if they found a different path.... wondering again if quitting midlevels was an easy 50k tee hee.

Then the adorementioned owner closes the conversation with the contract. I have not even intimated anything other than having received it. No actual offer has been made but he discusses the non compete( super lenient in my opinion) and tells me there is a 25k fine if I steal patients... no problems there, I'm wholly disinterested in theiving of any kind. 

I respond with, I have read this information and that portion I have no problems with. I am having legal counsel review the document      and pending this will submit proposed changes to you.

At which time a few things are said that make me wonder:

1. "Dont let those lawyers take you for a spin. Go in with points you wish to discuss. Realize that most of this contract is boiler plate"

this from "bad cop" which i thought was such great advice until the boiler plate commentary. But I was touched.

2. "We think the contract is perfect as is"

hahahahaha ohhhhh i bet.

3. The real gut clencher:

"Just remember involving lawyers often breaks deals instead if making them. Its good youre seeking counsel but keep that in mind"

this from good cop, the owner. This is the red flag to menas it felt like a thinly veiled threat of sorts.

Now, before i let my negativity bias the convo any further: this is a great opportunity in the middle of nowhere which is exactly what my country soul desires.  It's 40 hours a week  no call qoweekends and I get to do procedures  which is my favorite thing in the world . 

 No formal offer has been made . And if they are willing to drop this silly clause I will take this position in a heartbeat. But.... I realize that might be my new grad desperation also Rose coloring this. 

 

 I can't thank you guys enough for all of the input so far !  Thanks for reading  and for your kind support !

D

[PACJD]

So...Im guessing that the contract is still in the works? Honestly, from what you have said, its seems as though something fishy is going on and I wouldn't want to work for owners who "don't want to get lawyers involved." If you decide to accept the contract if they drop the clause, thats up to you. But don't get desperate and take the job as a last resort.

[ddiaz4]

Even I dont know. I was told to go ahead with the contract review so I can only assume that means if we can agree to wording then I have the job, so yes? 

I think with that clause gone it will protect me if they turn out to be a nightmare.... but I'm finding no one who wants to hire new grads at all in my home state and have received only two invitations to interview despite sending many applications in many different states. Im truly scared of not having a job six months out from graduating and dont want to screw myself out of this opportunity.

thanks your your reply!!

[ddiaz4]

Updates:

 Everything I wanted was given to me and I sign his contract after two months of negotiation !  If you don't ask you'll never know .  If they want you bad enough they will eventually concede to your wishes .  I'm sure I got very lucky but I also realize this is in the middle of nowhere which is what I want but not what everyone else might want so there was some give-and-take here but for anyone in a similar situation please don't give up until you at least fight enough for yourself to ask for what you want!!

 

 Thank you so much to everyone who put their two cents in I love this community and how everyone Bands together to help out.  You guys are the bees knees !

 Best of luck to everyone looking for a job right now too!!

[south]

Well alright!  Some good news today.  Congrats!

[ddiaz4]

Thanks so much!!