Direct Entry PA Programs

[eggboy94]

I am a graduating HS senior and am interested in hearing about the pros and cons of going into a direct entry PA program vs doing a traditional undergrad study before applying for graduate programs. Also, how competitive does it get to be accepted into these direct entry or auto advance programs nowadays. Thanks.

[Planteater]

I don't really know much about these programs. What kind of Bachelor's do they award? How long are they? What happens if you change your mind- do the credits transfer (I guess I'm asking if the pre-PA portion of the classes are traditional college courses)? I am also curious about why one would choose PA over MD/DO straight out of high school...

[JasonD]

The direct entry PA programs are generally less hard to get into than the "traditional" route. One school that my daughter got into gets about 200 applications for about 30 slots for their direct entry students. The same program gets about 2000 applications for the remaining 20 slots that they accept the "traditional way".

 

That said, they only accept exceptional high school students with very high GPA and SAT scores. The BS is usually condensed into 3 years with the last 2 years the normal 2 year PA school. Some programs have a 4 year BS, but you end up paying ~$50,000 in tuition for that extra year!

 

Be careful! Some programs that accept students out of high-school make them re-apply to the PA phase after they are done with their BS. Look for a program that guarantees you entry into the PA phase (if you maintain the required GPA, that is).

[IdahoPA]

A direct route sounds nice, but there are benefits to the traditional route. Namely, you're never again going to have the type of freedom you have as an undergrad once you become a PA-S or PA. A traditional undergrad education allows you to study multiple interests and study abroad. Plus, you might start basic science classes and realize it's not for you...then what?

[JasonD]

My daughter plans to do study abroad while an undergrad as a PA student. She'll get to choose a minor as well. Every school she applied to offers it.

 

These programs offer a BS is something like Health Science or Public Health as the undergrad part. If a student decides they don't like it, they can switch majors as can any undergrad. Some do. Also, if a student decides they'd like to go to med school instead they have taken the required pre-med classes as part of pre-PA.

 

It's a great way to go IF you're young, smart, dedicated and know what you want to do.

[mktalon]

This is going to sound discriminatory, even though I have defended some of the younger PA applicants, but I can't imagine being a 22 year old PA-C who is fully responsible for diagnosing and treating patients. Not that there are no 22 year olds that can do it, but from a patient perspective, I just can't imagine patients being okay with somebody so young being completely responsible for their care. I already see some of the younger LOOKING 27 y.o. residents being discriminated against by patients... 22 YO, I can't even imagine! It is something I already worry about myself because I look very young for my age... and I'm not even in my 20's. Just out of curiosity, do you have health care experience already?

[eggboy94]

Thanks everyone. The programs that I am applying have BS Health Sciences & MPAS in 5 years.

 

So I guess the biggest pros are:

-The "guaranteed" part of getting into the professional phase if I can keep up with the grades.

-Less competitive in admissions as undergrad vs grad school application.

The biggest cons being:

-Finding out that the medical field is not what I want at the pre-PA phase.

-Not being able to enjoy regular undergrad experience like having wider scope of study or study abroad.

-Disadvantage as a young PA-C when finished with the program.

 

I really appreciate the input since they are all legit points. If any of you are PA students straight from HS, what's your experience like? If you are from the traditional route, what is your impression on those "younger ones" who came straight into the program? Anyone feel if the direct entry students are less mature or less prepared? Thanks.

[greenmood]

I think there is a difference between concern that a younger PA might not be able to bear the responsibility and the worry over perceived discrimination from the patient. You've kind of blended the two, above.

 

We have a handful of students in my program who will be 23 when we graduate in 2013. I would say there are those who handle themselves well with our patients (dress very professionally and conservatively to age themselves slightly, monitor their speech for idioms, and project a calm demeanor) and would pull it off in the field, and those who don't even realize they have a problem (dress like they're still in college, speech full of disfluencies and fillers, and stress/annoy the rest of us with their frantic reactions to everything).

 

Both types of 23 y/o have the same knowledge base coming out of school, but whether the second group can hack it in the field is the question, right? I think a confident but humble young person who can build a rapport with his patient would be able to get past ageism with most clients. You'll always have a few who believe the only knowledge worth having is deposited in the brain when the first hair turns gray.

 

As for direct entry... I don't see why you shouldn't apply to these places if you think this is what you want to do. It sounds like you're allowed to change your mind during the process. I would worry about getting healthcare experience though. It's important, it's what gives you the skill with patients that might help overcome your young face... and it seems like there might be less incentive to do it if you're already guaranteed a seat in a program.

[mktalon]

Although I understand the lines get very blurred when it comes to discrimination, my sole intent was on patient discrimination and not on capability. So my apologies if it came off as anything different. I have argued in other posts, that age is not ALWAYS correlated to wisdom and empathy, even if a loose correlation does exist. Therefore, it is not for me to judge any particular individual's competence to practice medicine. So my sole concern is of the perception of patients receiving the care from a 22 year old. I completely agree that a humble and confident individual, even if young, is certainly capable.

[mktalon]

I think you are a great candidate to get some kind of HCE right now to dip your toes in the industry to see if you like it. I admire that fact that you are taking your career choices seriously.

[JasonD]

The school my daughter will be attending require their undergrads to get their EMT and work in the field -- I guess during the summers and breaks. I believe most direct-entry programs have this or a similar requirement.

[mackjacks]

I know that University of Detroit Mercy's 5 year BS and MS program requires students to obtain at least a CNA and acquire 1,000 hours of patient care as part of the requirement to enroll in the MS PA program.

[eggboy94]

So I would need to get either EMT or CNA certified, and log in 1000 hrs. Is it before the MS phase or before starting the BS phase? I'm hoping that it is before the MS phase so that it can be fulfilled during the summers. How are the 5 year BS/MS schools' reputation? Are they frowned upon at all compared to the more traditional ones?

[winterallsummer]

I would say a HUGE con is finding out you don't want to do PA. What if you decide you'd rather do RN, DO or MD? Or worse, what if you decide medicine isn't even for you? That's quite a hit to take. I entered college at 20 thinking I wanted to major in journalism. God forbid if that was the case now! And after that it was business. Trust me, I'd hate to live my life in the office. On the other end of the spectrum are the countless pre-meds and pre-PAs who by their junior year realize what working in medicine is REALLY like doesn't appeal to them whatsoever. In fact I am pretty sure the vast majority of pre-meds end up switching to something else because they realize that isn't what they wanted to begin with.

 

If you are totally sure you want to do PA, I mean 100% sure, I think it is a nice guarantee for a seat in a program. Also shaves a year off your undergrad, which is a plus. But if you have any doubt that you may want to go MD or RN or DO, or that you may change your mind and not want to practice medicine on any level, think long and hard about this decision!!!

[JasonD]

I would say a HUGE con is finding out you don't want to do PA. What if you decide you'd rather do RN, DO or MD? Or worse, what if you decide medicine isn't even for you? That's quite a hit to take.

 

There seems to be this misconception that these direct entry PA programs are strictly a five or six year long "PA school". This is not the case. The first 3-4 years (depending on the school) are spent in a regular undergrad environment. You major in public health, pre-med, or whatever. If after a year or two in college you decide that PA or medicine is not for, you can switch your major to Far Eastern Art History if you like, just like any undergrad can. Want to be a MD or RN? Fine, you've been taking the correct undergrad classes all along. Just because a HS senior is accepted into one of these programs in no way implies they MUST become a PA one day.

 

To the OP...every program that my daughter applied to required the EMT or CNA certification and work experience DURING the undergrad phase, AFTER you have been accepted but BEFORE the final 2 years of PA school. Each school is different in what they require and how many hours you have to work. The school helps the students find a job.

[eggboy94]

To the OP...every program that my daughter applied to required the EMT or CNA certification and work experience DURING the undergrad phase, AFTER you have been accepted but BEFORE the final 2 years of PA school.

 

Thanks. I checked my local community colleges and their EMT certifying classes are 7-8 credit hours offered either in fall or spring semester. How do I get certified while carrying a regular semester? Do I need to find places that offer them during the summer?

[JasonD]

I believe the school arranges for the training. Check with the programs you are interested in applying to. I would not worry about it.

[FfIghter23]

As a student who has been accepted into one of the few direct entry BS/MS Physician Asst programs I think I can help with my perspective. Most of these programs "advertise" their program as a direct entry from high school, but in reality accept very few freshman students directly into the program. These programs are mostly filled with transfer students who have not finished a Bachelors degree, but are wanting to finish it and directly transition into the PA professional phase at the school. I am a paramedic who hadnt finished my BS, but I knew I wanted to be a PA and had one year of upper level science classes left to finish my degree. From what I hear very few freshmen are accepted into these programs and the ones that do eventually drop out or decide it is something they don't want to do anymore.

 

I would be very cautious as a a high school senior to commit to one of these programs as they can be very intense and you have to go at the pace that the school requires. (mine requires 19-25 credits per semester plus three classes per summer, to complete the pre-professional phase with some of the classes being Pathophysiology, biochem, gross anatomy, and such.)

 

It would really be a huge waste of money if you decided by the end of it that you didn't want to be a PA. Just be REALLY sure That this is what you want to do, and even then you will have to prove to adcom that you are an exceptional student.

[JasonD]

As a student who has been accepted into one of the few direct entry BS/MS Physician Asst programs I think I can help with my perspective. Most of these programs "advertise" their program as a direct entry from high school, but in reality accept very few freshman students directly into the program. These programs are mostly filled with transfer students who have not finished a Bachelors degree, but are wanting to finish it and directly transition into the PA professional phase at the school. I am a paramedic who hadnt finished my BS, but I knew I wanted to be a PA and had one year of upper level science classes left to finish my degree. From what I hear very few freshmen are accepted into these programs and the ones that do eventually drop out or decide it is something they don't want to do anymore.

 

I would be very cautious as a a high school senior to commit to one of these programs as they can be very intense and you have to go at the pace that the school requires. (mine requires 19-25 credits per semester plus three classes per summer, to complete the pre-professional phase with some of the classes being Pathophysiology, biochem, gross anatomy, and such.)

 

It would really be a huge waste of money if you decided by the end of it that you didn't want to be a PA. Just be REALLY sure That this is what you want to do, and even then you will have to prove to adcom that you are an exceptional student.

 

Interesting...

 

My daughter has applied to 5 BS/MS schools -- all in the Northeast. We have visited even more. At every one of these programs, a majority of the graduating class are from the freshman admits (where she is going is about 30-35 HS students and 10-20 "traditional" students). At Dusquenne, they're ALL freshman admits as they only accept students out of high school. These schools also do not accept undergrad transfers from other schools or majors -- you either have to be out of HS or have a BS already (a "traditional" PA student). I'm sure the schools really like the freshman admits because it means another 3-4 years of tuition for them.

 

Your school seems to be out of the ordinary in my experience. Perhaps there are regional differences. Where do you go?