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If I had one piece of advice to give to future candidates


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Apply Early.

I made the mistake of trying to make everything perfect before I sent out apps last cycle. I submitted 10 apps in September last cycle - 8 never responded, 2 offered me interviews that resulted in 1 waitlist and 1 surprise accreditation probation/non-enrolling notice.

This cycle - of the 12 apps I submitted I had 9 interview invites by august and 2 acceptances in June. None of my stats changed, other than a tad bit more of the same HCE. It really does make all of the difference. This definitely also goes for schools that have "non-rolling admissions"; a few might truly not, but it seems most of them still start early and fill early.

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I can relate to the OP. First time I applied I sent in my CASPA at the end of June. I thought that was early, but apparently it wasn't all that early. The second year I applied I had my CASPA in three days after it opened and I had two interview invites by the end of May. It was bizarre how much of a difference it had made for me. But I also had improved my application quite a bit in my opinion so that was also a factor. 

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my one piece of advice: get quality hce. don't just skimp and do the bare minimum. your hce is the framework for your future career. Lots of folks say hce doesn't matter and that anecdotes don't matter, but it's hard to argue with the fact that I see all the best jobs going to the folks with highest quality prior hce. you won't see a lot of low quality/intensity prior hce folks staffing rural ERs, ICUs, or working at the cutting edge of our profession. almost without fail tthose jobs go to the former medics, resp therapists, or RNs. the exception being residency grads. advice point #2. if you squeak through with minor hce do yourself a favor and play catch up by doing a residency to make up for the work you didn't do before school.  

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I love when people just openly give advice like that. Thanks. I've just started to think about that aspect of the application process, and it makes sense. You're more likely to get a seat when they're all still open, than when it's getting close and they're weighing out heavily you versus another person. I graduate in May 2019. It feels like forever away from now, but I work full time as an EMT, so it kind of helps make the time go by faster; not all the time but usually, since we're an all 911 system with all ALS trucks in a busy, huge, metro area. I'm still figuring out how to plan when to apply and get everything in there. There's honestly not too much I can do on CASPA at this moment, but I have been trying to familiarize myself with the process, so I'm not dragging feet when it gets close.

I still have pre-reqs that I'll be finishing up when I graduate, so I can't even apply until it's for the 2020 cycle, so my plan is to as so as soon as those grades go in the system (usually first to second week of May) I am going to make sure that putting the transcripts through is the last thing that has to be done, and that everything is else is fully filled out and verified. I've been working on my PS now, as I have a good amount of experience with medicine so far, being 27, and this not my first career, so just trying to be smart about it, and make sure that's solid as well. Being on here is seriously such a blessing; having the open advice from everyone, seeing posts from the past and being able to learn from those situations... none of it goes to waste. 

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On 8/4/2017 at 10:46 AM, EastCoastPAapplicant said:

Apply Early.

I made the mistake of trying to make everything perfect before I sent out apps last cycle. I submitted 10 apps in September last cycle - 8 never responded, 2 offered me interviews that resulted in 1 waitlist and 1 surprise accreditation probation/non-enrolling notice.

This cycle - of the 12 apps I submitted I had 9 interview invites by august and 2 acceptances in June. None of my stats changed, other than a tad bit more of the same HCE. It really does make all of the difference. This definitely also goes for schools that have "non-rolling admissions"; a few might truly not, but it seems most of them still start early and fill early.

Thank you for this! For those who didn't get into MEDEX in Seattle, they received a packet of suggestions on how to improve your application. The very 1st advice - apply early. Last application cycle I turned it in the day before it was due. This year I applied within 1 month of opening. I also revamped my essays and job descriptions, got different recommendation letters and more HCE. I will let you know folks know how it goes! 

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6 hours ago, iconic said:

 I don't see how most students would be able to get "quality" experience. I have been working in a medical office as a scribe, and after 2 months feel like I have capped out at how much I can learn there. Looking at our MAs who cannot spell propranolol I also fail to see how MA experience would be all that useful for PA school. The other common experience is EMT which imho is not for everyone as not everyone is interested in working EM.

 

Incredibly ignorant position. Many programs like mine are moving away from low quality HCE because of what they see in the class and in rotations. And those students that DO get quality experience are more rapidly accepted into programs if you look at the trends (more competitive), I know through many backroom conversations that administrators across the country do not "respect" scribes as real HCE. You "fail to see" because you don't know what you don't know, that's a very stupid statement. EMT is great because it's easy to get into, you get hands on the pt's, your preforming interventions, you make clinical decisions (limited) and you're going to have an emergency medicine class and clinical rotation. In fact, most people's favorite part of PA school in the EM class because that's where and when you get to do all the "cool" stuff. 

 

Because they can't spell propranolol make's them incompetent or not understanding of their job? Tired of seeing this know-it-all trend on these forums with Scribes thinking thery're hot sh*t and they know so much. You write patient notes and have zero impact on patient care. Do you have an insight to ddx? sure but its completely limited. Do you know some common s/s, sure but its limited and you don't do PEs. You're going to get wrecked if you keep up this type of mentality. 

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2 hours ago, iconic said:

 as a scribe, and after 2 months feel like I have capped out at how much I can learn there

This is also not good. PA's are continuous life long leaners. You're never done learning no matter what you're doing or your level of experience; perhaps your statement was hyperbole - nonetheless it's a state of mind. From my perspective, anyone who says their an expert in their niche of medicine in 2 months is laughable - no matter how basic or advanced it is. 

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6 hours ago, iconic said:

I'm sorry EMEDPA, but the days when PA students were former RNs and RTs are over. RN and RT are both independent professions with Bachelor degree requirements, whereas PA schools now basically require people to major in Biology.

I beg to differ. Those days are not over. There is no one size fits all PA applicant/student/clinician (or really anything). I have classmates who majored in art, spanish, respiratory therapy, paramedics, medical lab science, biology, and microbiology (not everyone had a science degree) and that is just to name a few. We have previous scribes, PT aids, paramedics, RTs, CNAs, EMTs, MAs and the list goes on. In my eyes, that is the beauty of this profession. Yes, we all take generally the same pre-reqs but there is such a mix. We use each others strengths and try to recognize our deficits and improve on those. 

With anything, you get out of it what you put in. If you truly feel that there are no "quality" experiences to be had, then you simply won't have those opportunities. My first job was filing chart notes in a back room at a specialty eye clinic and I was 14 at the time, I still value that experience even though most would think nothing of it. 

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6 hours ago, iconic said:

I'm sorry EMEDPA, but the days when PA students were former RNs and RTs are over. RN and RT are both independent professions with Bachelor degree requirements, whereas PA schools now basically require people to major in Biology. I don't see how most students would be able to get "quality" experience. I have been working in a medical office as a scribe, and after 2 months feel like I have capped out at how much I can learn there. Looking at our MAs who cannot spell propranolol I also fail to see how MA experience would be all that useful for PA school. The other common experience is EMT which imho is not for everyone as not everyone is interested in working EM.

I'd also hardly call working a rural ER a desirable place to work. There is no one size fits all. 

Wow, for a second I thought I was on studentdoctornetwork. I'm impressed with the amount of misinformation and elitism you managed to pack into such a short post. 8404 and pastudentw already addressed several points but I'll put in my 2c.

1) high quality HCE is a major admission consideration for MANY schools (i.e. Medex,Utah, Duke, etc.) Sure some schools are changing to accept applicants that look more like a traditional med school applicant (high GPA low HCE) but to say the days where PA-S's aren't high quality HCE applicants is asinine. 

2) pre-reqs are incredibly variable across schools and I personally know many applicants who aren't even science majors that are receiving admission offers. Sure, a biology degree is useful in its efficacy to knock out some pre-reqs but by no means is this a requirement. My advice to students is study what you're passionate about (while taking pre-reqs) as you're likely to perform better in things you like.

3) The arrogance you portray with your statement that after 2 months you "have learned everything" is baffling. Are there high quality and lower quality HCE gigs? Sure. Is MA as applicable as paramedic? maybe not. But to suggest that there isn't more to learn or that other professions are somehow not useful to learning medicine is not only conceited but also just flat out wrong. Also, FYI scribe experience is not considered high quality as you're barred from touching patients. 

4) EM isn't for everyone, sure. However, Rural ER provides some of the highest pay and autonomy afforded within the profession which is highly desirable for many providers. 

I suggest you examine your attitude and guiding principles before continuing your journey into medicine. Medicine has a tendency to chew up and burn out those who enter it for the wrong reasons.

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having paramedic/rn/rt training and a biology degree are not mutually exclusive. many folks go right from undergrad into a 2nd degree bsn or paramedic program. I graduated with my bs in june and started medic school in july. I had been an ER tech for 4 years at that point 24 hrs/week during the school year and 60 hrs/week summers.

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6 hours ago, iconic said:

... Looking at our MAs who cannot spell propranolol I also fail to see how MA experience would be all that useful for PA school.

Those MAs are content. These are the same MAs who do not see the bigger picture and have made this entry level position their career. Nothing more, nothing less - just a paycheck.

I'm an MA and I can tell you that I take pride in my job. The providers I am assigned to for said shift can tell if I myself triaged a patient or if it's one of the other MAs...because with those other MAs things are spelled incorrectly, current Rx, PMHx, or FHx or most importantly, allergies are no where to be found in the patient's EMR. I do a thorough job because I know it's all about "you get what you put in". 

Also, if you believe after 2 months you've capped at what you can learn being a scribe then you're obviously like the other MAs who cannot spell propranolol correctly. You're not willing to push yourself to learn and that is a dangerous mentality, especially for a future medical provider. 

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Guest HanSolo

Back to the topic at hand...applying early is the best thing you can do to maximize your chances at acceptance if you already have an "acceptable" application. The difference between a yay or a nay can be where you sit in the stack. There are many quality applicants for each spot. Best maximize your chances and apply early.

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4 minutes ago, iconic said:

So many people triggered by my opinion. I am not devaluing anyone's experience. Everyone has their own path in medicine. I can't seem to find the report on PA students right now, but I will link to it later. Most students pursue one of three HCEs: scribe/MA/EMT. It is my opinion that HCE experiences vary greatly and thus can only be subjectively evaluated. Someone with good stats can always get more experience, whereas someone with a lot of experience can't always improve their stats.

I'm just curious - if you think a scribe can basically know it all after 2 months, an MA is mostly incompetent, EMT isn't for everyone, and RN/RTs are outdated, then what do you consider good quality HCE for a pre-PA candidate? You said so yourself that the first three are the most common methods of obtaining PCE, yet shut them down for the most part. So just curious on what your 2c are on how one should be adequately preparing with HCE prior to matriculation.

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What range is usually considered "early"? I might have skipped over someone else mentioning it. I was complete by mid June.I felt like most secondaries weren't released until around mid-june as well... I'm surprised to hear schools were sending out interview offers in May.

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10 minutes ago, LeQuack said:

What range is usually considered "early"? I might have skipped over someone else mentioning it. I was complete by mid June.I felt like most secondaries weren't released until around mid-june as well... I'm surprised to hear schools were sending out interview offers in May.

I think if you're finishing up your supplemental apps and have things submitted before 7/1 you're sitting pretty. Obviously for schools that have true rolling admission (ATSU for example) you want to get in ASAP

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5 minutes ago, LeQuack said:

What range is usually considered "early"? I might have skipped over someone else mentioning it. I was complete by mid June.I felt like most secondaries weren't released until around mid-june as well... I'm surprised to hear schools were sending out interview offers in May.

I'm not sure you can give much of an exact date that is considered early. I would say it is a combination of doing it as early as possible, without sacrificing quality of the application itself. You don't want to just rush through it and miss errors, have a weak personal statement, forget to add sections for the "experiences" etc. 

My opinion is that anything before July is very early. Using this forum is nice because you can see when people were invited to interview at certain programs and get some perspective on that timeline. Some programs will list on their web page if they give preference to applications that were sent in before a specific date so that can also help you gauge was would be considered "early". If a program is on rolling admissions and has a deadline of August 1st, that program likely gets the bulk of their applications very early on in the cycle.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/4/2017 at 1:46 PM, EastCoastPAapplicant said:

Apply Early.

I made the mistake of trying to make everything perfect before I sent out apps last cycle. I submitted 10 apps in September last cycle - 8 never responded, 2 offered me interviews that resulted in 1 waitlist and 1 surprise accreditation probation/non-enrolling notice.

This cycle - of the 12 apps I submitted I had 9 interview invites by august and 2 acceptances in June. None of my stats changed, other than a tad bit more of the same HCE. It really does make all of the difference. This definitely also goes for schools that have "non-rolling admissions"; a few might truly not, but it seems most of them still start early and fill early.

I agree but to a certain extent. Applying early is truly beneficial when the school offers rolling admissions. For instance, I applied to 4 schools that do not look at any applications until after their deadline so applying early put me at no advantage and possibly at a disadvantage (I rushed a few things on my app). With that being said I think it is of utmost importance to start CASPA ASAP. Open it the very first day it  and play around with it, fill out what you can and make sure you understand how it works in terms of LOR's, PS and recording your experiences. I wish someone would've told me that beforehand and if someone did I wish I listened... lol

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