Oversupply

[Blakester]

I USED to be a PA in KY.  You guys are now the only state in the country that don't permit PAs to write controlled substances (thus FULLY providing access to all patients in the state), and NPs are kicking you guys butts.  True statement?  There is a huge glut of mid levels everywhere, at least anywhere someone would want to live, but I have watched in the last 10-15 years there the number of NP and PA programs have DOUBLED.  The newest one, the University of the Cumberlands I think?  Graduated 100 new PAs last year. Where are they getting jobs?  50% of all new grads have to leave the state.  NPs have made us second class providers because of that.  NPs now have bridge programs for them to get MD degrees now too.  Government statistics predict by 2025 there will be NO under supply of mid levels and indeed expect there to be 20,000 surplus of mid levels nationwide and that NO state will have an under supply.  Bottom line?  The day of getting out and going down the street from where you live is over, if that is what you expect.  Also, if you expect to get out and then work part time?  Not a ton of part time positions being made either.  I'm seeing compensation level out and in some places drop.  I mean if you want to go to Po Dunk, Nebraska or practice in Alaska then places that have insane numbers of people and expectations of you then that will be around for a while.  If you want to be in a sunny clinic seeing 20-25 patients/day then those are going to be much more rare.  I've been out for 20 years so trust me, I have seen this coming.  This isn't "sour grapes" or anything like that.  If med schools had shot up in new schools and enrollment the way the new NP and PA schools have then there wouldn't even be a market for us but med schools know better than to do what the institutions are doing to us.

[camoman1234]

FNP to MD bridge? I need proof of this...

[aimyhtixela]

OP might be referring to Oceana University of Medicine in Samoa (https://oum.edu.ws/curriculum-overview-usa/) which has been discussed before in past threads. I wouldn't call it a bridge though because it's still a 4-5 year program but the curriculum is online so it's feasible to work full-time while in it. As far as likelihood of getting into a US-based residency after the program it's probably unlikely but this former CRNA seem to have done it successfully: https://www.zocdoc.com/doctor/young-genau-md-167583.

[corpsman89]

Sounds like overthehorizon.

[Blakester]

All I can say is trust me on this one folks.  Or don't take my word for it.  Google oversupply of mid level practitioners.  Read the government study.  I predict actually by 2023 it will happen mostly due to the huge influx of NPs.  Google how many NP schools there are.  The number of new PA schools awaiting accreditation is 65!!  If you take those schools and just say conservatively a class size of 50 that is 3,250 PAs/year.  I checked my info and it's true.  The number of PA grads of the University of the Cumberlands class size was 100.  So in the new schools along the number of PAs is going to be between 3,250 and 6,500.  Thats NEW grads.  Of new programs.  That doesn't include the number of already in place PA programs or especially not the number of NP grads.  Gauging their number is much more difficult cause they have online programs that enroll and unlimited number.  This happened in the 90s to respiratory therapists (I was one when before I went to PA school).  The salary sucked.  If you didn't like your job?  The unemployment line was right down the street.  Same thing happened to RNs at one point too.  NPs will take a lower salary often too.  Why?  Well let's say you make $25-$30/hour as an RN and you slave away on med surg, or chart your ass off in a unit?  Then at the end of shift you are there for another hour or more finishing up and giving report.  Plus you might have to work 2nd or 3rd shift.  NPs?  They might start out at even $30/hour but even if it's $35 thats a little better than what they were making and the environment is much easier and no lifting, feeding, cleaning patients and no report at the end of your day.  I know a lot of you are new grads and only looking for your first job but I wish you luck cause in 5-6 years a lot of us won't be hireable anymore because in most states NPs get reimbursed at a higher rate ( cause they are deemed "independent") and are able to practice on their own license.  Think about it.  Would you want to spend time and money to become an MD and then have 3-4 PAs practicing under YOUR license?  If I'm being honest I wouldn't.

[camoman1234]

Get out of here overthehorizon...no one is listening to your negative comments...just quit being a PA and leave us all alone...or better yet, become a NP...

[lancer_dancer01]

This does bring up an interesting point. I know that I did experience this first hand with Respiratory Therapy in ND. When I graduated I had to take a less than desirable job (working at LTAC) for $16/hr (this was in 2009). Or I could go prn at another hospital making $17 and hopefully get 20 hours a week then maybe after doing this for a year or so get offered a part time/full time job. The reason for this was the oversaturation of the market in ND (they only had two RT schools in the state), but also a lot of people who grow up there do want to stay there so I am sure the administrators know this. I wanted to move but my ex wanted to stay in ND (should have been smarter about that one). I hope our profession doesn't get there but to be honest I do worry a little bit with all the new programs popping up and the NP masses.