Radiology PA vs Registered Radiology Asst???

[Super Duper]

Sorry for the troll feeding everyone. I just really needed some stress relief. Carry on.

[MRAD]

I have read several threads regarding this issue on this forum. My response is based on what I have read in all of the threads regarding this issue not only on what you posted. Im not here to persuade you or anyone in this matter.

[GatorRRT]

Rad PA's will eventually be phased out of radiology and replaced with RA's.

...said no one ever.

[coloradopa]

Ra's/ Supertechs call them what ever you like reimbursement will be the same for both occupations "85 %" . At the end of the day its my opinion i was unaware i was addressing my state representative but i guess statements like " Fluoro will eventually be granted to us" sounds much better lol. Really that's why the American College of Radiolology endorses HR 1148 as well as the ARRT.

 

Medicare pays 85% to take care of the patient. Medicare does not pay 85% to step on the flouro pedal. Thats the difference between a radiology PA and an RA.

[ventana]

Rad PA's will eventually be phased out of radiology and replaced with RA's.

never going to happen, as PAs find their voice. Politically we are going to gain more and more clout. It would not surprise me if the RA movement ceased to exist

 

schools can continue to turn out advanced agreed people that can't get paid.

 

We need to hold steady in the fight against this, our patients deserve medical providers doing invasive procedures, not just super techs

[casepac]

I have read that RAs, RPAs and RRAs are X Ray Technologist Extenders whereas PAs specializing in Radiology and NPs specializing in Radiology are Radiologist Extenders. These are determined by reimbursement factors as well as training models. A radiologist doesn't have to go to X Ray School, but they do go to medical school, similar framework as the PA-C. X Ray schooling is an entity of its own and allows a skill set to perform high quality radiographs. To extend these skill sets into the diagnostic and therapeutic criteria is going away from the framework of x ray schooling.

 

Medicare reimbursement may be hard pressed to allow the same reimbursement rates for these totally different fields. More manipulation and redirectioning of their educational formats may help but as they are currently the diffuse nature of medicine learned at the PA-C level and the reimbursement relationship between physicians, PAs and NPs in radiology are more lucrative to their partnership along with providing society with a high quality and diffuse level of experience and quality of care. IMO

 

ArtisticAthlete, what did you end up pursuing and how did it turn out??

[NeoTrion]

Medicare pays 85% to take care of the patient. Medicare does not pay 85% to step on the flouro pedal. Thats the difference between a radiology PA and an RA.

 

Very true. But also the PA can't stand on the pedal, especially in Colorado. So far the laws haven't been extended in that state to include PA's that do not also poses and RT®. So then we run into the question of why would a radiologist hire a PA when they can't engage fluro on their own.... So what would be the point of letting a PA do an upper GI or BE? But on the flip side at least a PA can sign off on paperwork and complete and H and P on their own license. RA's cannot sign anything legally.

[Bodiggler]

I don't even think an RA has a license and therefore can't diagnose. So if he or she saw an abnormality on the screen could they even diagnose the patient? A PA could... I just don't see the RA model working. It is wayyyyy tooooo specific of a career. A PA provides the Radiologist more tools. They can do more things beyond hitting the fluoro button. For example, they can write scripts etc.... An RA has a very specific skill set that doesn't translate to much else.

[MedicalRN]

Very true. But also the PA can't stand on the pedal, especially in Colorado. So far the laws haven't been extended in that state to include PA's that do not also poses and RT®. So then we run into the question of why would a radiologist hire a PA when they can't engage fluro on their own.... So what would be the point of letting a PA do an upper GI or BE? But on the flip side at least a PA can sign off on paperwork and complete and H and P on their own license. RA's cannot sign anything legally.

 

I like your avatar. One of my favorites, though I was actually more partial to Light and wanted him to win.

 

Totally off topic, I know.

[NeoTrion]

I don't even think an RA has a license and therefore can't diagnose. So if he or she saw an abnormality on the screen could they even diagnose the patient? A PA could... I just don't see the RA model working. It is wayyyyy tooooo specific of a career. A PA provides the Radiologist more tools. They can do more things beyond hitting the fluoro button. For example, they can write scripts etc.... An RA has a very specific skill set that doesn't translate to much else.

 

Very true. But does the Radiologist want to get up off his chair and do fluro, or would he rather just sit there and sign orders and notes that are brought to him. In my experience fluro is the one thing the radiologist hates doing the most. In radiology you are not doing a whole lot of diagnosis anyway and usually you will say "probable ___________ and clinical correlation recommended." But I totally agree with you on the specific skill set. That is why I went the PA route myself.

 

MedicalRN: Always nice to see someone that recognizes the avatar. I was always an L fan.

[kang1208]

I am actually a RT( R ) and PA-C myself, so i guess that means we are the "special group" of mid-levels who can fluoro while other PA-C can not?

[coloradopa]

When we talked to medicare and they considered direct supervision as physically present in the room. According to them this was not open to interpretation as you have as you have said. "They are either in the room with you or not." When we asked the state of Texas, they said exactly the same thing. You can't get around that one in radiology. They said this is similar to rad tech students in there eyes: "rad tech students in their first year must be under direct supervision of a licensed technologist (with the technologist or other authorized agent being present during exposure). Second year students may have indirect supervision (with a technologist immediately available but not present) during an exposure. An authorized agent is someone recognized to have the proper training by the state of Texas as an MRT (maybe a non licensed technologist) or a licensed physician by the state of Texas medical board.." We had to get all of this cleared up due to our medicare/medicaid patients.

 

 

 

RT® (MR) (CT) (N) ARRT

CNMT - NCT - NMTCB

PA-S

I'm going to take issue with this statement. If you have something in writing show it.

Here is the Medicare definition of direct supervision:

", as defined at 42 CFR 413.65, “direct supervision” means that the physician must 

be present on the same campus where the services are being furnished. For services 

furnished in an off-campus provider based department as defined at 42 CFR 413.65, he or 

she must be present within the off-campus provider based department. The physician 

must be immediately available to furnish assistance and direction throughout the 

performance of the procedure. The physician does not have to be present in the room 

when the procedure is performed. “

 

This directly contradicts your statement. 

 

As for RAs replacing rad PAs show me Medicare reimbursement and I'll believe it. Medicare pays for providers not technicians.

[htownpa14]

Therefore a physician must be on site but does have to be in the room.

 

Rysmith, when you say a physician, can it be any physician/radiologist in the group I work for, or does it need to be my official supervising physician as registered through TMB? Right now, I have one supervising physician, but I feel as though I might need to add everyone in the group (16 radiologists) as supervising physicians. What are your thoughts?

 

Thank you.

[NeoTrion]

I answered this in another thread.  Our group has 25 rads here and we have a different system for supervision that I mentioned in the other thread.

[NYfuturePA123]

As far as the PA vs RA topic specifically, I must add your location matters.

 

I am a recent graduate Radiologic Technologist, who early on, debated on PA v RA. In New York City, for example, I have not rotated with or even met an RA. That is because of the high flow of Radiology Residents each June. I have read/heard that the more rural areas employ RA's because of the shortage of radiologists. Also in order to be an RA you must first become and R.T.® and have two years of experience.

 

The main reason why I chose PA over RA is because Radiologists, as physicians, and PA's BOTH start their core schooling under the medical skeleton. As a PA going into a radiological case, you will have a better understanding of the diagnosis and etiology vs having only done your studies in Radiology.