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I see a lot of posts as to salaries for our work.  Some by specialty others by years of practice.  I had an eye opener on Monday when I called a plumber for a non emergency kitchen sink issue.  They came the same day and fixed the problem in literally less time than it took him to walk from his truck in ripped jeans and a not so clean white tee shirt.  He certainly knew what he was doing as he fixed the issue in less than 3 minutes.  Upon standing up again he says "how does $125 sound".  I was quiet for a second and countered $100 cash which he quickly agreed to.  After he left I thought is college and the huge student debt that we are burdened with after graduation, much  job dissatisfaction, used as everything but a floor mat worth the $100,000 a year?  Maybe college isn't the most important thing in the world.  Many plumbers and electricians, A/C techs charge just to come to ring your doorbell.  This by no means a put down of skilled labor but what value is placed on these services compared to many of us who deal with life and death, malpractice, surly OPs etc?  Just venting.  Thanks

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Two days ago I had a grandmother literally scream and call me a "f***ing a**hole" because I wouldn't prescribe her granddaughter antibiotics for her allergic rhinitis.  (and I'm pretty sure "feeling warm" isn't a fever).  Every day I see 25-30 people who want antibiotics for their "sinus infections", who race to the clinic an hour after their sore throat starts, but who don't do a damn thing about their blood pressure, weight, or smoking- but then they want to sue me when their face droops or they feel the chest pain they spent a life time culturing.  They insist the flu shot gives them the flu, yet when the DO get the flu, they lack any sort of common sense of what to do.  They can not afford thermometers, blood pressure cuffs, and are more terrified of strep than cardiac arrest.  

 

The answer to your question- no, I don't think it is worth it.  

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2 hours ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Add 30 minutes of travel time, the cost of his truck & supplies, and the fact that he only does such low effort/high paying jobs a few times a week.....yeah, it's worth it.

The huge student debt isn't worth it though.  There are better ways of doing it.

The part in bold is only partly true. I have a few friends who are plumbers. One owns his own business and nets almost $200k a year on average. The other works for another company--he does not pay for his truck or tools, takes call twice a year, and makes more than I do. Yes he drives around a lot, but he makes money at just about every job.

I question my decision to become a PA just about every day now. Medicine is not what it was even 10 years ago anymore. Too many other jobs requiring less emotional and mental investment, not to mention the financial burden for some from the schooling.

 

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Yes, it is worth it.

I have worked in family practice for thirty years.  I have some families for which I have taken care of four generations. 

I have experienced the joy of telling a young couple that their infertility efforts have paid-off and they are expecting a baby.  I have ended fears by telling a man he does not have cancer.  I have extended the lives of many people by treating their hypertension, diabetes, and dyslipidemia. 

I have also been a friend and support to patients with metastatic disease. I have been a comfort to an old woman with end-stage renal disease.  I have been a shoulder to cry on.  I have even cried with families. 

I served my country in the military.  I have been blessed in many ways with my calling to heal.  We all need to wake up every day and remember that we are here to serve, not to be served.

Plumbers don't get those same rewards.

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Is your doctor worth more than your plumber

Seems you're not the only one feeling this way. The doctors are too. 

I'm obviously not in practice yet, but yes it does bother me seeing that my brother will be up to $40 an hour in 4 years out of high school (per the union pay schedule), or that metal fabricators can pull $50-$65 per hour here. I don't mean to bash skilled labor either, but surely our labor is skilled as well. I think people in medicine get a rap for being "head smart" to a fault, but we do things and procedures with our hands that are craftsmanship and artistry in their own right. 

But I also think of the fact that we are in an industry that enjoys a relatively high amount of social prestige. Sure, it's not as much as a doctor, but it's there. And nobody has to come to a high school career night and spend 20 minutes trying to convince parents and students alike that medicine is a respectable field and nothing to be ashamed of - something that apprenticeship programs have to do all the time. 

I also think our profession comes with an infinitely greater number of opportunities to actually impact someone in a real way. We help people just like a teacher, clergyman or clergywoman, or social worker might. But we get paid much more decently and oftentimes we can help in a much more real and tangible way. 

And ultimately, I don't think I would be happy doing something like plumbing - even if it did mean I was making more money. 

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I agree with Thinker that there are days (a lot of them) when patients are too much and seem entitled but I also agree with LKPAC that there days (a lot of them) when we win and see the benefit of our service. And though the irresponsible, demanding, entitled, disgruntled pt sticks out more to us, the good things we do seem to be forgotten or disregarded. I am sure all of us have gone through this. Heck I thought about throwing it in a few months ago when I posted I was looking for a non clinical job. But I think it is worth it and I just have to shift my focus on the good I can do and try to let the "noise" fade on the background... It sucks though when you get a bad press Ganey score on a pt you thought you gave good service to because they felt they should have gotten an ABX or "saw a real doctor" [emoji53]

Reminds me, my annual review is next month... Yay? [emoji52]

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Guest UVAPAC

I believe the biggest difference between being a PA-C and a plummer (and believe me, I used to feel jealous of roofers, plumbers, electricians... thinking how much they charge an hour with lesser education/training).

1.  BENEFITS  (Things such as health insurance, disability insurance)  When you don't work for a hospital or large group, these benefits are EXTREMELY expensive, and can have huge deductibles and co-pays.  

2.  Employer Match for Retirement-  Most hospitals have an employer match for 403b/401k plans.  Many other places do not offer these benefits.  

3.  PTO  (Most clinicans get 4+ weeks off a year and paid holidays)  Also sick time (for those of us who use it).  Many manual labor jobs do not provide these kind of benefits.

4.  Wear/Tear on your body.  Yes you can make a lot of money in manual labor, however when you are 50 years old needing back surgeries and knee replacements is it really worth it?  

 

I see pros/cons to both sides.  

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The real fact of the matter is that we are underpaid

 

docs make 2-5 times as much as we do and in the non-surgical fields we do pretty much the identical job...  this is not fair.

 

Yes we have a faster training, but how is my managing someones DM or HTN worth only 85% of the doc management??  What bout when I I was in IR and putting in a port or PICC - was I only doing 85% of the job a doc would??  Just seems like we should be making a lot closer to doc's for the PCP fields......  

 

We have truly advanced in out field and in some ways are interchangeable with physicians - not in all, but in the PCP fields we are doing 100% of what the doc does.....

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Every job has its trade-offs. Go for maximum money and something else will be extracted from you. Could be free time, self-respect, the ability to sleep at night, the people you have to deal with, your long-term health, or wondering if you are really making a difference for anyone else.

Or maybe the costs are worth it to you. That's why all of us don't end up in the same profession.

Finding out what is important to you is a big deal, and your idea of what is important can certainly change.

PS: I worked for a plumber on summer in college. Other than some repairs at home, haven't done it in 50 years.

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Larger population base with wide diversity of income levels and many of the "worker bees" are in the pipeline for retirement so someone will have to pick up their costs. The only national healthcare that I can see for all is government provided catastrophic care. Before we can do this we need to come to grips with the fact that humans don't live forever. Death with dignity (not talking about medical assisted suicides).

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I am home today and our dryer needs the felt replaced on the drum part is 40 bucks. Labor is 125. Last week our faucet was water hammering. Needed replacement. Plumber came out and replaced it in under an hour 185 for labor and the faucet cost 200 bucks from home depot[emoji53]

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In a word, no. 

I have a friend who is a commercial plumber. He brings home probably $250k. Has 3 employees. I wouldn't say he loves his job, but he gets home at 5 o clock every day and can vacation when he wants, runs his own roost. No student debt.

I honestly look at myself as a skilled laborer of sorts. I have an education, a set of skills, and a license. I deal with the public, performing a service.

What separates me from trade labor is the amount of sacrifice involved. I have massive student debt, much greater responsibility/liability, high-stakes licensing exams, and relentless pressure to make people happy in addition to doing my job right.

I think for those who see this as a calling, it is worth it. For those of us who see it more as a job, it isn't. I'm neutral most days, hate some of them, and never have had a day where I was excited to come to work. If a palatable non-clinical opportunity came up I would take it in a heartbeat.

If I could do it all over again (and I may one day), I'd get a 4 year bio/forestry degree and get a job with Fish and Wildlife. Government benefits, great retirement, and work that I personally would find interesting and meaningful.

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This thread is brutal. Makes me wonder if I should have just stayed working in the Lab. It seems like every other provider has some sort of break. MD/DOs have massive social respect and recognition, and absolute autonomy. NPs have their independence, and relatively low student debt.

PAs seem to get the brunt of everything. Hardly any social respect ("O' cool, you're an assistant, so you take my B/P and weight?"), Increasing student debt, no backup career (NPs have their RN), no independence, etc. Its rough. Hopefully some of this can change.

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LKPAC,  No trades people do not have the pleasures you describe but each trade has its own pleasures.  You neglected to mention the down side of medicine much of which did not even exist 10 years ago.  That side gets longer every year.  Ever been in a multi million dollar malpractice suit?  ( I haven't either) but I bet trades people haven't either.  We as clinicians are not in charge of our own destiny.  The more you work doesn't mean the more you make.  

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In 1986, I thought of it as a "calling"  Always loved medicine even when single digits old.  As time went on,  with all the regulations and HIPPA and all the other alphabet agencies, it became a job.  That is when I left after 31 years.  The first 18 years were the best of my career in NYC.  Moved to Texas and it quickly became a job.  After 13 years here I called it quits.

PS  I used plumber as an example.  I have great respect for all trades people and know that there is a 7 year period of working before you can get a licence and be a "master" what ever.

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Speaking as someone who's dad is a plumber: yeah it's worth it.

Don't be fooled into thinking that all plumbers are going around making 200k just for doing easy repairs. It takes a different kind of person to be happy working in manual labor, and I'd be willing to bet that kind of person isn't someone who frequents this forum. I thought I would like it, one summer working with my dad in highschool proved me wrong.

Unless you're ok with getting called to wade knee deep in someone else's crap for a couple hours, only to have them yell at you and say that somehow it's your fault and you made a mistake from the last time you were there, and then subsequently have them refuse to pay, you really shouldn't be a plumber. (see, everyone is getting yelled at) Not to mention getting sued when you do make a mistake and ruin someone's house and now you need to shell out cash to replace the flooring and all the damaged goods. I've seen my dad spiral into depression over lawsuits. This is America, no one is safe from getting sued. 

Also, the plumbers that make this kind of money are the ones that own their own business. To be able to get contracts you need to be a master plumber, which can take 10 years of apprenticeship and journeyman level work in which you can maybe make 50K. Also, you forget that a lot of these plumbers come into family businesses with name recognition in the community and a set list of clients, this makes it more difficult for someone who just up and starts their own business. Couple that with the fact that a lot of these businesses are closing thanks to larger companies charging less, it's really not all it's cracked up to be. (also the havoc manual labor has had on my dads back isn't too great either) 

That being said, I wouldn't discourage anyone from being a plumber if you want to, college is not for everyone, but don't fall into the trap that it's a better job. But like Boatswain2PA said, the grass is always greener...

Edit: I don't mean to say that this is everyone's experience. This is just mine, and one of the reasons I decided on medicine rather than a trade school. Every job sucks to some extent, that's why they pay you, the more they pay you, usually the more it sucks. Not to say high paying jobs can't also be amazing. 

 

 

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