corpsman89 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I was reading another thread and noticed someone put down a link yesterday of a bill in Tennessee that, if passed, would allow a PA that has attended the "Doctor of Medical Science" (DMS) program, and has 3 years of experience to be licensed as "new type of physician." Bill Link: http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/110/Bill/SB0850.pdf Tennessee legislative website: http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/billinfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=SB0850 Not sure what to think of this. It is not a bridge program by any means, but it seems like a more quality version of the DNP for PAs. I am not sure if being granted a DMS "license" by the medical board would enable these new PAs to have more authority, but it may be a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Wow, I briefly read the bill and it looks like a new "License" type for a Doctor of Medical Science, perhaps along the lines of DC, OD, PsyD etc but in medicine. Prob LMU had a lot to do with this. I would love it see it pass then hopefully spread throughout the country. If not for the sake of an opportunity to move beyond our glass ceiling. I gotta say, when PAs decide to break our chains we can get things moving. Much like the OTP movement. Still have a lot of fighting to do but of we stick together we can guide our own profession for ourselves. Exciting time to be a PA. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsylte Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Game changer! With the amount of physician residents capped by federal money, this is a way to actually increase the amount of "doctors ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 How would you do a residency? I assume an internship would be waived, but surely not an entire residency? I like this idea very much, but there are questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Wow..... very interesting. It's an exciting time to be in the PA profession! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsman89 Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 It almost seems to good to be true. These statements in this bill are pretty provocative in todays day and age:"Upon the issuance of a license by the board as provided in this bill, the person receiving the license will be entitled to practice in this state as a doctor of medical science. A person licensed under this bill as a doctor of medical science will be subject to the laws applicable to the practice of medicine and any rules adopted by the board."and..."This bill requires the board to provide for renewal of licenses for a person licensed under this bill as a doctor of medical science in the same manner as provided for medical doctors" Although it looks like the bill does give some leeway to the medical board in "any rules adopted by the board." The good thing is that it passed first and second consideration, which sounds promising to me. We'll have to keep our eye on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted June 19, 2017 Administrator Share Posted June 19, 2017 How would you do a residency? I assume an internship would be waived, but surely not an entire residency? I like this idea very much, but there are questions. As I read it, the idea is that working as a PA for 3+ years IS the residency before the doctoral degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsman89 Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 How would you do a residency? I assume an internship would be waived, but surely not an entire residency? I like this idea very much, but there are questions. I don't think there is a residency. From what I understand: 3 years experience + graduate of DMS program = practice medicine as a licensed DMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsman89 Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 Wow, the guy who proposed this bill IS a Physician, a cardiothoracic surgeon. A Military Physician. A Republican Physician. Senator Richard Briggs MD. Going against the grain this man. Kudos! Here is a link to the legislative video. Scroll down to SB0850. The video makes this sound even more promising!!! http://tnga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=354&clip_id=13408 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HmTwoPA Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I wonder if this bill would give more autonomy? It doesn't mention anything about practice laws in the bill. It could just be that a PA is now able to refer to themselves as the title of Doctor in a clinical setting. Please correct me if I missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I wonder if this bill would give more autonomy? It doesn't mention anything about practice laws in the bill. It could just be that a PA is now able to refer to themselves as the title of Doctor in a clinical setting. Please correct me if I missed something.I think it would be more than just using the title "doctor" but if you read the bill, there is something about declaring a "relationship" with a hospital, practice etc. And having other professionals to consult with as a requirement... So not really equal to a physician but more like OTP to the next level? But nevertheless exciting news. Only thing is, IF, this passes in Tennessee, will it spread to the other states. Unfortunately I live in a very (prob THE most) restrictive state. Another thing would be if other DMS programs would qualify like Lynchburg and others. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsman89 Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 Only thing is, IF, this passes in Tennessee, will it spread to the other states. Unfortunately I live in a very (prob THE most) restrictive state. I think the first state is the hardest. Once a state passes a law, its bound to spread. ala Full practice authority for NPs. Another thing would be if other DMS programs would qualify like Lynchburg and others. Yes, other DMS qualify as long as they are regionally accredited. Its in the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoman1234 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I think the first state is the hardest. Once a state passes a law, its bound to spread. ala Full practice authority for NPs. Yes, other DMS qualify as long as they are regionally accredited. Its in the bill. and 2 years in length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheshark89 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Yes the 2 years in length is a big deal bc the dms at lynchburg is 1 year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted June 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 19, 2017 It almost seems to good to be true. These statements in this bill are pretty provocative in todays day and age: "Upon the issuance of a license by the board as provided in this bill, the person receiving the license will be entitled to practice in this state as a doctor of medical science. A person licensed under this bill as a doctor of medical science will be subject to the laws applicable to the practice of medicine and any rules adopted by the board." and... "This bill requires the board to provide for renewal of licenses for a person licensed under this bill as a doctor of medical science in the same manner as provided for medical doctors" Although it looks like the bill does give some leeway to the medical board in "any rules adopted by the board." The good thing is that it passed first and second consideration, which sounds promising to me. We'll have to keep our eye on it. Ugh That verbiage seems to be a back door for the medical boards still controlling everything we do..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I'm sorry, but practicing as a PA for three years does not substitute for a residency. I still feel that these DMSs would be treated as second-class. Would AAFP allow you to take their boards? What about IM, Peds or other primary care specialties? Would hospitals give full medical staff privileges? Would Medicare and other insurances pay fully or at 85%? Don't get me wrong, I am all for this, but there are still questions to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoman1234 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I'm sorry, but practicing as a PA for three years does not substitute for a residency. I still feel that these DMSs would be treated as second-class. Would AAFP allow you to take their boards? What about IM, Peds or other primary care specialties? Would hospitals give full medical staff privileges? Would Medicare and other insurances pay fully or at 85%? Don't get me wrong, I am all for this, but there are still questions to answer. I agree, even if you practiced for 10 or 20 years does not mean you can by-pass a residency. The reason I say this is not because I don't believe that 10 or 20 years experience doesn't mean anything, but there is no objective evidence to back this claim up. This is why there are residency programs that are accredited. We as PAs need objective evidence to show we are on par with our counterparts (physicians) if we want to be more independent. The only objective evidence I can think of is testing (CAQs, taking physician specialty boards, etc). Those are objective and can be controlled by whomever. Anyone can 25 years experience, but that is no equal to everyone else's experience(s). I think we are on a positive momentum for PAs and need to keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBanner Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Mixed feelings on this one. At face value it sounds too good to be true. And when they refer to "the board" do they mean the state Board of Medicine? Or is this a newly-formed board for DMS practitioners... From Lincoln's website: Currently, there is no additional legislative scope of practice or certification that come with the DMS degree. Good idea on paper but nothing more than a money grab at this point in time. Now if there are actual legislative changes signed into effect? That's big news. But I can imagine loud and petulant push-back from the AMA and pretty much the entire physician community. Not raining on the progress parade here, I just think it's a bit half-baked. Even if DMS degree-holders were given legal scope equivalent to MDs, they would be seen as backdoor docs. Physicians and residencies are inextricably linked. It's kind of like saying you want to join the military but bypass half of basic training because you're in "really good shape". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Here's what is needed: 1. Get DMS degree. (After 3-5+ years full-time experience as a primary care PA.) 2. Bypass internship. Your previous years of experience as a PA substitute. 3. A fast-track residency, maybe one year for experienced PAs. 4. Sit for and pass boards in primary care specialty. 5. Full autonomy as a physician equal to MD / DO. Discuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBanner Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Here's what is needed: 1. Get DMS degree. (After 3-5+ years full-time experience as a primary care PA.) 2. Bypass internship. Your previous years of experience as a PA substitute. 3. A fast-track residency, maybe one year for experienced PAs. 4. Sit for and pass boards in primary care specialty. 5. Full autonomy as a physician equal to MD / DO. Discuss! Much better plan. You cant argue with someone who's completed a residency. One potential problem is it's hard to standardize. Say you have a PA who has 5 years of FP experience and wants to do an FM residency. Ok, slam dunk. But say you have a PA who has been in derm for 3-4 years and wants to do a derm residency. Do they credit for time served? Or should they have to do a 4 year derm residency plus fellowship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoman1234 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I think it should be for FM/Peds/Womens Health/Mental Health as these are the top areas with very low growth (worse in rural areas). I think if you want to be independent then you should only have to choose between these 4. We should be compared to this program: https://www.ttuhsc.edu/som/fammed/fmat/ If you want to be a PA in different area then you are dependent as you can never to any length of training compared to most other residencies (burn surgery/ortho/trauma/neurosurgery/radiology/derm...I think PA/NPs should help fill the void of physician that do not practice in FM/Peds/Womens Health/Mental Health...CAQs are a great start + DMSc + years of experience + internship... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Much better plan. You cant argue with someone who's completed a residency. One potential problem is it's hard to standardize. Say you have a PA who has 5 years of FP experience and wants to do an FM residency. Ok, slam dunk. But say you have a PA who has been in derm for 3-4 years and wants to do a derm residency. Do they credit for time served? Or should they have to do a 4 year derm residency plus fellowship? Good point. each specialty would need to set it's own criteria. Each residency program would have to "weight" previous experience. It would be somewhat individualized, yet there needs to be standards. Basically, You could take a well-experience primary care PA and make them a fully-functioning, independent PC physician in about three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 The physician legislator stated that the DMS would still need to have physician oversight lifelong. He did not like the term supervision. It will not be a completely independent DMS license if there is required oversight. It sounds a little bit like a PA-physician bridge program but not quite there......... It may represent another innovative idea that will propel PAs forward. PAs in Tennessee who desire to practice in primary care in a rural or underserved area may end up flocking to the program, and then eventually will saturate the market in TN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 changing from "supervision" to "oversight" is not an improvement. It does not require a doctorate. How is this better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyJ Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Are there any two year DMSc programs? Who would be making the exam for certification? Hopefully not the NCCPA. They should change the wording to any health/medical related doctorate degree or am I going to need to go back to school and get a second doctorate degree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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