Spine Neurosurgery PA - New Grad Question

[Torshi]

Interview coming up in Texas. 

I'm curious if anyone knows what the going rates are for NEW GRADS.

I was looking at a year old AAPA salary report, not much info on Neurosurg - specifically spine either. Much would be appreciated. 

[tompkbr]

Don't have any data, but perhaps someone else does.  My thoughts for a new grad:

 

-base rate $90K clinic only.  $100K if clinic and OR

-call should be a rate (hrly, daily, etc), not part of base salary

-should have access to your billings & collections, esp if you're doing any procedures or going to the OR.

-practice can make a lot of money off first assist fees for spinal cases if you're going to the OR (something to keep in mind)

 

I work in nsy (75% spine, 25% cranial), though not in TX.  First "real" job, but did a postgrad residency.  I would say salary can vary depending on what you'll be doing (OR, clinic, procedures) and expected call.  

[COgoalie]

I went into private practice ortho-spine as a new grad about a year ago in a competitive metropolitan market. Position is split OR and clinic with 1 weekend a month call that I split with my surgeon. I started with a base of $95k with quarterly production bonuses worth avg of $4-8k/quarter and excellent benefits. If practice was NSGY, I would have had a bit more ammo to negotiate with as the avg salaries are a bit higher in NSGY than Ortho on the AAPA report. Tompkbr is absolutely right, assist fees for spine cases generate a ton of revenue beyond cost of compensation package. Feel free to PM if you'd like any more information.

[Torshi]

Okay, thanks for some insight. I'll PM if I have specific questions.
Current offering I was seeing 90-95k base with *quarterly bonuses + call pay etc - have interview set up for more specifics later. 

[Torshi]

Where can I find more information on salaries etc, if there is none besides anecdotal than it's okay. Appreciate the posts above. It's just that I can't state my offer and state it's because other PA's working in a similar field make this much etc. Just no legitimate basis. 
AAPA salary report sucks and completely undervalues PA's even for new grads in my opinion.

I have yet to receive the formal contract offer for this Spine/Neurosurg gig, but I informally accepted the position awaiting further contract details. I'm expecting negotiations for sure. I'd just like to have some basis for what I'm saying when it comes time. 

 

Obviously on the AAPA salary report, the only closest category is "Surg: Neurology" and I was just looking at 50th-75th percentiles - Salary $90,500-101,000. The position I'm looking at is 50/50 split clinic & OR (spine & neuro cases). The physician did mention about an "incentive bonus," but again whatever that means when I see the numbers. 

I'll update as well. 

[DizzyJ]

Other then AAPA I've seen salary figures in the Advance for NPs and PAs journal. 

[PennPA4]

For new grad 90-97 is reasonable for any surgery specialty. Here in Northeast at least.

[SedRate]

Another option is to look at assist fees and office reimbursements and calculate a rough estimate on what you'd be bringing into the practice. You can even gather non-reimbursed items like postop visits, discharges, etc, and give them weight. These items are not necessarily reimbursed but are part of the surgical package and need to be performed. If you're not doing them, then the doc is. His/her time is much more "valuable" and so it's worth something to have you do them at a fraction of the cost, e.g., they pay you $50/hour versus a surgeon at $300/hour.

[dphy83]

How does AAPA report suck and undervalued PAs? It's a compilation of reported salaries, not a recommendation for what salaries should be. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to get all that you can, but what it is about you that makes you feel you should earn outside of the 50-75th percentile range as a new grad? You have a tough sell there.

[dphy83]

...hit post too early there. My advice would be to negotiate for a performance review in 9 months to a year (ie. Sign a 1 year contract if they place does contracts). A year would be the most straightforward and therefore the most likely. At this review you would have had time to go through the learning curve and ramp up efficiency and productivity. At that point you will have first hand data to support asking for a higher base rate or higher bonus structure. Some places are open to this, others may not be.

 

Oh, and as countless others have said, don't sign a non-compete in case you come across another nsgy gig that pays what you want or seems a better fit.

[stellahead]

For South Florida, I started at 80K, which I was told was the highest offer ever for a new grad at this practice. And as I've looked for a new job, I've become grateful for this offer. Over two years later, I'm up to 100K. No bonus. No pay for call. I'm clinic and OR, traveling overnight a week a month.

 

Tell me again why does Florida have 9 PA schools and more coming online??

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[anewconvert]

.

Tell me again why does Florida have 9 PA schools and more coming online??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

$50k/yr tuition and an endless pool of candidates willing to spend the money

[elise9101]

I don't mean to hijack this post but can someone give me advice on this offer I received for a Neurosurgery position. 

 

I was offered 85K with standard benefits (health, life , etc) to work on the neurosurgery service for a large multi physician multispecility health clinic with 9 neurosurgeons. Each Neurosurgeon has their own PA to work in clinic and assist in surgery so my job would be based strictly out of the hospital and I would be responsible for all hospital consults, including ED, PEDs ED, Trauma, ICU, and Neuro. As well as managing any post op patients throughout their hospital stay.  

 

Id be working 7 on 7 off 12 hr shifts. Rounds only on weekends and Occasional OR time if there is a big trauma on the weekend for example and id be there anyway the surgeon wouldn't have to wait for their PA to get there (thats exactly how she put it?) 

 

I feel that for this job description 85K is a low offer. AAPA new grad report says neurosurg PA avg salary is 87,250 but I'm thinking about asking for a 5-10% increase, i just don't want to seem like I am reaching? 

 

Also there is no bonus pay, and from reading on this site i am not sure if that is something that I should ask for? 

 

Advice please and thanks! 

[PennPA4]

The offer is ok for new grad. I would ask for 5 percent more. They would probably agree. Asking never hurt anyone. If they don't have bonus structure, you won't have one either so asking for that is useless. Rather ask for more CME money if something.

[SedRate]

I don't mean to hijack this post but can someone give me advice on this offer I received for a Neurosurgery position.

 

I was offered 85K with standard benefits (health, life , etc) to work on the neurosurgery service for a large multi physician multispecility health clinic with 9 neurosurgeons. Each Neurosurgeon has their own PA to work in clinic and assist in surgery so my job would be based strictly out of the hospital and I would be responsible for all hospital consults, including ED, PEDs ED, Trauma, ICU, and Neuro. As well as managing any post op patients throughout their hospital stay.

 

Id be working 7 on 7 off 12 hr shifts. Rounds only on weekends and Occasional OR time if there is a big trauma on the weekend for example and id be there anyway the surgeon wouldn't have to wait for their PA to get there (thats exactly how she put it?)

 

I feel that for this job description 85K is a low offer. AAPA new grad report says neurosurg PA avg salary is 87,250 but I'm thinking about asking for a 5-10% increase, i just don't want to seem like I am reaching?

 

Also there is no bonus pay, and from reading on this site i am not sure if that is something that I should ask for?

 

Advice please and thanks!

That offer is low to ok for all they are asking, at least from what I gathered in the post. Be cautious about accepting a surgical job as a new grad where you'll be doing consults right away. Protect yourself from getting into a situation where you aren't ready or prepared to do that. Interview the surgeon and see if they'd be willing to teach and support you along the way while you get up to speed or if they'll be throwing you to the wolves and potentially setting you up for failure.

 

Also, PTO? CME? 401K? Holidays? Call (or is it strictly 12 hour shifts)? Differential in shifts (days vs nights) or strictly day shifts? Shared clinic or your own? Just postop visits or new/established patients as well? Are you strictly hospital-based or also clinic (couldn't really tell by your post if you'll be paired up with a surgeon or covering the whole team)? Has this surgeon worked with a PA before? Did the previous PA leave, and for what reason? These answers could change your asking price. If they're expecting you to cover all surgeons and do all consults combined with a weird shift schedule, the offer is low and you should ask for more. If they're expectations are more reasonable, the offer is ok.

 

Sorry for the long-winded post, but I'm getting the impression they're trying to get you cheap and work you like a dog.

[elise9101]

Hi thanks for your responses. Im going to be covering the whole team, only days and strictly 12 hour shifts. No call. Holidays id have to work 3 a year. They are offering 401K match at 4% i believe and they offer CME but I have to ask about how many days and how much. 

 

This is a new team they are forming but they have all worked with PAs for a long time. Each of the neurosurgeons has their own PA that works in clinic, assists in the OR and does morning rounds. My job is going to be strictly consults and post-op, but I am kind of worried about the PEDs portion. Im assuming id need to get PALS and probably ATLS too so should I ask them to pay for that too?

 

 I get 3 months of training but one surgeon I talked too said I should call about everything for my first two years and the PAs that I talked too all said that they are really willing to teach. So I do not feel that I am being thrown to the wolves. But I do feel like they are asking me to do a lot. The PA that I am replacing is going to the trauma team. 

 

And i agree it seems like the pay is low for what they are asking me to do. 

[SedRate]

In light those details, the offer seems decent then. If you are required to obtain certain licenses in order to do your job, e.g., PALS and ATLS, then they should cover it.

[Torshi]

I have a contract for neurosurg/spine and I've been going back & forth with negotiations. I'm curious if anyone is willing to give it a look to see if I'm on the right page in terms of what I'm asking for. I'm pretty set on not backing down for what I want. Overall, I don't think it's fair in many respects, but again, I've been asking for more in every category. 

Let me know so I can communicate via message. 

Thank you!

[Torshi]

Also does anyone have the most recent AAPA salary report - 2016? I don't have any recent data to counter with - been negotiating based on general consensus and how much I think I'm worth of course. 

[AMCPAC93]

I started around 90 with 2K CME and a 2K bonus annually if you are meeting goals. Raise to 95 after 1 year and to 105 at 3 years. No overtime/hourly for call/weekends. 50/50 spine/cranial. Northeast.

[kevinchs03]

I started in 2017 with a neurosurgeon (we do 95% spine). I competed a surgical residency (paid 65K) and when I started with neuro spine, my salary was 115k (no bonus). My 2nd year was base of $120 with productivity bonus 13.5K. My 3rd  was a base of $130 with productivity bonus of $14k. I am in the process of getting ready to negotiate my 4th year. I am hoping for base + productivity to be at least $150k.