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PA-S questioning my decision. When/if I should I go MD/DO???


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To all those suggesting I learn more on my own, I agree wholeheartedly and already engage in self-study constantly. I'd be quite naive to assume I'll get it all in a short 25 months of death by PowerPoint. What I'm realizing is that I don't believe it's possible nor practical for me as a PA to assume I'll ever be able to self-study my way up to the knowledge level of a typical residency-trained physician. No need to put them on a pedestal, and that doesn't put down the value of our profession either, just highlights the obvious fact that their training is more in-depth. I'd sure hope so for the extra years and $$$. I initially thought I was 100% OK (even preferred) the more "pragmatic" PA route, but now I've been having second thoughts.

 

Like I said earlier though, I'm realizing I have to keep taking a step back and just being right where I am. In a few years I'll probably have a much more grounded and (hopefully) wiser view!

troll are we? what do you call a doctor who graduates at the bottom of his class?

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The point of college isn't to learn; it's to learn how to learn.  Graduate school, even more so.  By the time you're in a graduate program you should already know how to learn and think for yourself.  That's not to say that pure PBL is the only way to go, but the knowledge gained in PA school is secondary to the mental models of thinking about learning medicine: Evidence based medicine, though generally hated by my peers, was clearly the most important class in my PA program.

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The OP created their account on April 20th 2017. I bet anything this is Over the horizon. Always against PAs.

 

I doubt it, but I like the way you think...good answer...I'll be watching you...

 

(professor Turgeson reference...I still can't figure out how to post an image)

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I have been a practicing PA since 1988.  It was an awesome choice at that point.  If I were to advise you I would tell you to become a NP instead of a PA at this point.  NPs are getting Full Practice Authority around the country (I think the count is 22 states at this writing) and PAs are not even getting close to doing so, although we talk about it a lot.  The PA education is excellent, we spend more hours in clinical rotations getting hands-on experience but our political/professional status at this time is problematic.  I love being a PA and own my own practice, but still have to pay a hefty monthly fee to a supervising physician.  I do call him for advice or to go over a case with him if I feel like I could be missing something or just want a pair of fresh eyes on the presenting problem.  He also calls me from time to time about a patient situation of his own.  This is the same process I use with other PAs and physicians (specialists) when I need some input.  It is collaboration rather then supervisory.  

There are certain specialties  you can enter into after Med School that will allow you the balance you are looking for.  Dermatology and Radiology are both well paid and more of the 9-5 schedule or part-time schedule you are looking for.  

 

Good luck,

 

Think hard about the PA vs NP if you are sure you want to be a Mid-level vs MD/DO.

 

Amy   MSPAC

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I have been a practicing PA since 1988.  It was an awesome choice at that point.  If I were to advise you I would tell you to become a NP instead of a PA at this point.  NPs are getting Full Practice Authority around the country (I think the count is 22 states at this writing) and PAs are not even getting close to doing so, although we talk about it a lot.  The PA education is excellent, we spend more hours in clinical rotations getting hands-on experience but our political/professional status at this time is problematic.  I love being a PA and own my own practice, but still have to pay a hefty monthly fee to a supervising physician.  I do call him for advice or to go over a case with him if I feel like I could be missing something or just want a pair of fresh eyes on the presenting problem.  He also calls me from time to time about a patient situation of his own.  This is the same process I use with other PAs and physicians (specialists) when I need some input.  It is collaboration rather then supervisory.  

There are certain specialties  you can enter into after Med School that will allow you the balance you are looking for.  Dermatology and Radiology are both well paid and more of the 9-5 schedule or part-time schedule you are looking for.  

 

Good luck,

 

Think hard about the PA vs NP if you are sure you want to be a Mid-level vs MD/DO.

 

Amy   MSPAC

 

They are already almost finished with their first year of PA school, and apparently not satisfied with the level of schooling. Why would you advocate NP school?

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The PA education is excellent, we spend more hours in clinical rotations getting hands-on experience but our political/professional status at this time is problematic. 

 

This right here is the key to the problem and the solution.  This problem is solvable - the NP problem is not.  

 

Think about it;  to equal out the differences in the two, is it more feasible to 

 

- increase your clinical requirements x4 and institute actual supervisory requirements for programs like PAs have?  

 

- or to chip away and continuously better the "union" while working for FPAR and such?

 

The PA political "deficiency" can be fixed, and if we continue to call for it, it could be.  We can even use the same arguments that have worked for NP.

 

The NP education "deficiency" cannot.  They are stuck with it, which is why they go in other directions (100% online joke degrees).  

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They are already almost finished with their first year of PA school, and apparently not satisfied with the level of schooling. Why would you advocate NP school?

 

I assume amy bonk-chanin didn't realize OP was already in PA school. IMO, PAs  will never be able to keep up with NPs....Reasoning (just a few):

-They're under board of nursing, PAs under board of medicine (MD/DOs). They can do whatever they want. 

-RNs/NPs outnumber PAs significantly, their lobbying power will never be matched by PAs. With increasing numbers and more nurses/NPs in administration and hospital positions, they hire their own, and crap on PAs. They are out to prove they are better than PAs, definitely not help them. 

-With power, larger voice and advocacy, it doesn't matter their education sucks and that their clinical and school training is inadequate. The public is largely uninformed and doesn't care/know if PA training is better. All the public hears is "Nurses have a doctorate, nurses work in "collaboration" not supervision, nurses are independent, nurses are not "assistants", etc etc. 

Unfortunately, I feel its a losing battle that PAs just can't keep up with, so I can agree amy bonk-chanin would recommend someone choose NP over PA. Do I feel PAs should role over and give up, certainly not. 

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Style over substance essentially then, well said.  I hear you, take the point, don't agree 100%, but do agree we should fight the good fight every day.

 

Still happy with my choice and still on Team PA for newbies.  Maybe I just got the underdog thing going on.

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The more you learn, the more you are going to realize you don't know.  The knowledge you obtain from PA school is just the start.  Working in the medical field means being a forever student.  Your yearning to constantly know more will make you a great provider regardless of where you go to school.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you are having doubts about becoming a PA and would like reassurance, there is a bridge program from PA to DO. The LECOM offers it, so instead of 4 years of medical school, you would do only 3. You still have to take the typical boards, but there aren't really prerequisites besides one physics and one organic chemistry course with a lab; you just have to be a PA with experience. I put the link below if you would like to check it out. I'm not saying you should go on and do this, but it will definitely save you time and money since you're already in PA school. In my opinion, you should finish PA school since you're basically done with your didactic year, then find the specialty you would like to work in and work there as a PA for at least a year or two. You can decide then if you're happy with your choice of being a PA and if not, apply to LECOM while you're working as a PA. Best of luck! 

 

https://lecom.edu/academics/the-college-of-medicine/accelerated-physician-assistant-pathway/

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I assume amy bonk-chanin didn't realize OP was already in PA school. IMO, PAs  will never be able to keep up with NPs....Reasoning (just a few):

-They're under board of nursing, PAs under board of medicine (MD/DOs). They can do whatever they want. 

-RNs/NPs outnumber PAs significantly, their lobbying power will never be matched by PAs. With increasing numbers and more nurses/NPs in administration and hospital positions, they hire their own, and crap on PAs. They are out to prove they are better than PAs, definitely not help them. 

-With power, larger voice and advocacy, it doesn't matter their education sucks and that their clinical and school training is inadequate. The public is largely uninformed and doesn't care/know if PA training is better. All the public hears is "Nurses have a doctorate, nurses work in "collaboration" not supervision, nurses are independent, nurses are not "assistants", etc etc. 

Unfortunately, I feel its a losing battle that PAs just can't keep up with, so I can agree amy bonk-chanin would recommend someone choose NP over PA. Do I feel PAs should role over and give up, certainly not. 

Let us compare top NP earners to top PA earners to see where the numbers fall. I think PA is a safer bet in that regard.

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I have been a practicing PA since 1988.  It was an awesome choice at that point.  If I were to advise you I would tell you to become a NP instead of a PA at this point.  NPs are getting Full Practice Authority around the country (I think the count is 22 states at this writing) and PAs are not even getting close to doing so, although we talk about it a lot.  The PA education is excellent, we spend more hours in clinical rotations getting hands-on experience but our political/professional status at this time is problematic.  I love being a PA and own my own practice, but still have to pay a hefty monthly fee to a supervising physician.  I do call him for advice or to go over a case with him if I feel like I could be missing something or just want a pair of fresh eyes on the presenting problem.  He also calls me from time to time about a patient situation of his own.  This is the same process I use with other PAs and physicians (specialists) when I need some input.  It is collaboration rather then supervisory.  

There are certain specialties  you can enter into after Med School that will allow you the balance you are looking for.  Dermatology and Radiology are both well paid and more of the 9-5 schedule or part-time schedule you are looking for.  

 

Good luck,

 

Think hard about the PA vs NP if you are sure you want to be a Mid-level vs MD/DO.

 

Amy   MSPAC

I don't think you can tell just any person "If you want balance go into derm or radiology" when those are two of the most competitive specialties to match into. Medical school is already full of 1%er's in regards to intelligence. If you walk into medical school banking on matching into one of those specialties you're most likely going to be disappointed when it's all said and done.

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I am getting the same vibe as JMPA. The OP is saying all the right things, but a few of the comments seem similar to what one might read from a medical student.

 

Exactly, here it is: "No need to put them on a pedestal, and that doesn't put down the value of our profession either, just highlights the obvious fact that their training is more in-depth." He is TRYING to make it look like he is not bashing our profession. He is not doing too good of a job.

 

This sounds like a med student: "Medical school is already full of 1%er's in regards to intelligence."

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This sounds like a med student: "Medical school is already full of 1%er's in regards to intelligence."

What I meant to say is medicals schools are already full of 1%er's in regards to intelligence as it is. Meaning there are quite a handful of brilliant people out there that are choosing to go to medical school that you will be directly competing with head to head for those radiology and dermatology matches that another poster was alluding to. Do you not think those people also want the lifestyle matches as well? Nobody should bank on matching into a ROAD specialty unless you're an outstanding exception in your own right and have proven so already up to the point you're currently at. Even then, you just don't know how you will fare in medical school. To bank on such a competitive specialty and only it just seems naive to me. It's not thinking logically.

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What I meant to say is medicals schools are already full of 1%er's in regards to intelligence as it is. Meaning there are quite a handful of brilliant people out there that are choosing to go to medical school that you will be directly competing with head to head for those radiology and dermatology matches that another poster was alluding to. Do you not think those people also want the lifestyle matches as well? Nobody should bank on matching into a ROAD specialty unless you're an outstanding exception in your own right and have proven so already up to the point you're currently at. Even then, you just don't know how you will fare in medical school. To bank on such a competitive specialty and only it just seems naive to me. It's not thinking logically.

 

Actually, of the ROAD specialties, radiology and anesthesia are not competitive anymore.  Ophthalmology and Dermatology are still pretty competitive though.   

 

Radiology:

https://residency.wustl.edu/Choosing/SpecDesc/Pages/DiagnosticRadiology.aspx

 

Anesthesia:

https://residency.wustl.edu/Choosing/SpecDesc/Pages/Anesthesiology.aspx

 

Blog with nice graph showing competitiveness of each specialty:

http://www.blog.greatzs.com/2015/02/how-hard-is-it-to-match-into.html

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